On being a long time fan.

[beedee]

So this is a much better answer than "common sense" and I ask this out of curiosity NOT combativeness or disagreement...

Does recreational participation in a sport translate to "popularity" in the context that we're using here?

I'm certainly not going to pretend that hockey hasn't grown in popularity over the 50+ years since the Kings were founded but I frequently hear people talk about the boom in local interest in the Kings and the NHL and hockey as a result of the cup wins and yet I see complaint after complaint from the same 20 people about how the local media is all employed by the team.

That is because the actual local media doesn't cover the team. Because they believe there isn't a sufficient audience to make it worth their time.

I hear complaint after complaint from season ticket holders that they're unable to find buyers for their tickets when they try to sell them on the secondary market.

So it seems to me that this bold confidence in the growth of the sport locally is always SORT of defensible because naturally over time things grow... but as a fan and team employee I'm always a bit skeptical that hockey has any kind of serious foothold in "the community" at large.


sure but I think the question was whether or not the Cup wins boosted the popularity of the team in LA was it not?

I have no idea.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I wouldn't know where to get this info, but I'm sure it's out there -- wouldn't ticket sales be a pretty good indicator? I'm sure the average ticket sales/season from 2012 to say 2016 was significantly greater than the previous 4 season.

Problem with that is theres a cap on it. There's only so many tickets you can sell and even if you raise prices year over year and never see a drop in sales you're only really proving that the market of existing fans can afford the increase.

Ratings on TV would be a more reliable gauge I would think but I've never seen any kind of reliable straightforward numbers that say "This precise number of people are watching on TV" it's always percentages or year to year shifts in percentages.


It's anecdotal but as a fan and team employee I've not personally witnessed a significant increase in the overall popularity of the team.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Problem with that is theres a cap on it. There's only so many tickets you can sell and even if you raise prices year over year and never see a drop in sales you're only really proving that the market of existing fans can afford the increase.

Ratings on TV would be a more reliable gauge I would think but I've never seen any kind of reliable straightforward numbers that say "This precise number of people are watching on TV" it's always percentages or year to year shifts in percentages.


It's anecdotal but as a fan and team employee I've not personally witnessed a significant increase in the overall popularity of the team.

Sure there’s a cap, but was it capped out all those years?

What about season ticket holders? Does that get capped out? Is there a waiting list to reference how many people are in or were in the pipeline?

 

[Maynard]

Problem with that is theres a cap on it. There's only so many tickets you can sell and even if you raise prices year over year and never see a drop in sales you're only really proving that the market of existing fans can afford the increase.

Ratings on TV would be a more reliable gauge I would think but I've never seen any kind of reliable straightforward numbers that say "This precise number of people are watching on TV" it's always percentages or year to year shifts in percentages.


It's anecdotal but as a fan and team employee I've not personally witnessed a significant increase in the overall popularity of the team.

TV ratings aren’t the best metric either. With games being televised only on DirecTV and Spectrum. So many people I know don’t hardly watch any more, but they would if they didn’t have to change providers or get the shitty Bally app, etc.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Sure there’s a cap, but was it capped out all those years?

What about season ticket holders? Does that get capped out? Is there a waiting list to reference how many people are in or were in the pipeline?

Are you really suggesting that 16,500 is the height of popularity of hockey in the SoCal region???

 

[All The Kings Men]

Sure there’s a cap, but was it capped out all those years?

What about season ticket holders? Does that get capped out? Is there a waiting list to reference how many people are in or were in the pipeline?

Capped in the sense that you can't sell more tickets than you have seats for.

Even with the expansion from 18,118 to 18,230 for hockey there's still only so many seats available for purchase at any given Kings game.

The sellout streak ended a long time ago and I can tell you that there are still plenty of empty seats at most games these days.

When the team plays well more people go that's probably true of every team in every market and every sport but if we're talking about ticket sales as a measure of popularity... I'm just not sure there's any compelling evidence for it.

and just for the record... I would love to believe that hockey as a sport is more popular in LA than it was in 2012. 2002. 1992 etc etc

I'm just not sure it is

also thank you to (almost) everybody for keeping this particular conversational detour polite and interesting

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Are you really suggesting that 16,500 is the height of popularity of hockey in the SoCal region???

I was referencing the few years at Staples prior to winning a cup.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Capped in the sense that you can't sell more tickets than you have seats for.

Even with the expansion from 18,118 to 18,230 for hockey there's still only so many seats available for purchase at any given Kings game.

The sellout streak ended a long time ago and I can tell you that there are still plenty of empty seats at most games these days.

When the team plays well more people go that's probably true of every team in every market and every sport but if we're talking about ticket sales as a measure of popularity... I'm just not sure there's any compelling evidence for it.

and just for the record... I would love to believe that hockey as a sport is more popular in LA than it was in 2012. 2002. 1992 etc etc

I'm just not sure it is

also thank you to (almost) everybody for keeping this particular conversational detour polite and interesting

I think you will have your ebbs and flows with ‘popularity’…as there are a lot of bandwagoners out there (like Sol). So maybe the first question is how do you define popularity? There should be no argument at all that ticket sales were much better in the few years following the cup win than the previous years.

I’ll say this, I know for a fact that we never got as many Kings games (regional broadcasts) prior to 2012 than we do now.

 

[Fat Elvis]

I can tell you that the last couple seasons it's been difficult to even watch Kings hockey on tv. I'd think that makes it even harder to attract the casual fan. I used to be a mini plan ticket holder from the forum days thru the Cup seasons. But living in South OC it became too difficult to make those mid-week games and they basically doubled the price. Bought a very nice TV (to watch most every game) for the cost of 1 ticket not to mention multiple seats. But I think pro sports in general are getting too expensive for the average family to attend more than a couple times a season. But that's a whole nother topic

 

[All The Kings Men]

I think you will have your ebbs and flows with ‘popularity’…as there are a lot of bandwagoners out there (like Sol). So maybe the first question is how do you define popularity? There should be no argument at all that ticket sales were much better in the few years following the cup win than the previous years.

I’ll say this, I know for a fact that we never got as many Kings games (regional broadcasts) prior to 2012 than we do now.

Well I definitely agree that defining words and phrases before launching into passionate debates about them is always a good start.

Sadly it's not common practice.

Ticket sales were definitely better following the Cup win but is that a measure of popularity?

For me when people say the sport has "clearly" grown in popularity over the years it usually means one of two things...

they themselves or one of their kids play and so they see the expanded opportunities

OR

they themselves experience some kind of personal increased exposure to the sport by virtue of either their own career or their own financial stability


If you make more money today than you did in 2012 then it's probably way easier for you to go to games, watch games and be around other people that can also afford to do those things


But if it's not in your budget or you don't work in or around the sport or you're not completely plugged into some ancillary community that orbits the sport then I'm not sure hockey in LA is anymore present than it ever was before

I have friends with kids that play hockey and they are completely disinterested by the fact that I work for the team and am regularly on the telecast/radio broadcast and go in the locker room and have personal interactions with the players

I have friends that can afford season tickets to teams in markets they don't live in that can fly to northern california multiple times a year to attend football and basketball games and do not care at all about hockey in general much less the Kings

I know self professed "biggest Kings fans in the world" that don't know what the Ontario Reign is and wouldn't take their kids to a Reign game if the tickets were free... and they live way closer to Toyota Arena than Crypto dot com

 

[All The Kings Men]

I can tell you that the last couple seasons it's been difficult to even watch Kings hockey on tv. I'd think that makes it even harder to attract the casual fan. I used to be a mini plan ticket holder from the forum days thru the Cup seasons. But living in South OC it became too difficult to make those mid-week games and they basically doubled the price. Bought a very nice TV (to watch most every game) for the cost of 1 ticket not to mention multiple seats. But I think pro sports in general are getting too expensive for the average family to attend more than a couple times a season. But that's a whole nother topic

This is one of my concerns as a fan/employee


Are we indoctrinating new fans faster than we're losing older fans


I know tons of you on this board (and I've heard it from other sources) stopped caring as much once the Cup was won

The momentum of futility was broken. We all got what we wanted.

But did the Cup runs create enough new fans to replace those of you that either can't or won't spend the time and energy on the team anymore?

I ask that not as a criticism but an acknowledgment that with time comes change. The Boston Red Sox and Chicago Cubs are infinitely less interesting as perennial contenders than as generational losers and I know that the Cup wins released a certain percentage of Kings fans from a sense of "rooting obligation"

Interesting comment from you.
Your the King!

Of passive aggressivity!

If you were not part of the Kings Corporate Machine, I have a feeling your comments would be A LOT different!
Be honest...

You're not going to get my honest take on the roster or specific players but THIS conversation?

This is total honesty.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Well I definitely agree that defining words and phrases before launching into passionate debates about them is always a good start.

Sadly it's not common practice.

Ticket sales were definitely better following the Cup win but is that a measure of popularity?

For me when people say the sport has "clearly" grown in popularity over the years it usually means one of two things...

they themselves or one of their kids play and so they see the expanded opportunities

OR

they themselves experience some kind of personal increased exposure to the sport by virtue of either their own career or their own financial stability


If you make more money today than you did in 2012 then it's probably way easier for you to go to games, watch games and be around other people that can also afford to do those things


But if it's not in your budget or you don't work in or around the sport or you're not completely plugged into some ancillary community that orbits the sport then I'm not sure hockey in LA is anymore present than it ever was before

I have friends with kids that play hockey and they are completely disinterested by the fact that I work for the team and am regularly on the telecast/radio broadcast and go in the locker room and have personal interactions with the players

I have friends that can afford season tickets to teams in markets they don't live in that can fly to northern california multiple times a year to attend football and basketball games and do not care at all about hockey in general much less the Kings

I know self professed "biggest Kings fans in the world" that don't know what the Ontario Reign is and wouldn't take their kids to a Reign game if the tickets were free... and they live way closer to Toyota Arena than Crypto dot com

You can say that about almost any non-traditional market though....I would think (not having lived in most other non-traditional markets)

But you are talking about popularity as in going to the games.....I guess I am part of your first...descriptors up there.....played in SoCal for years and years etc and see the expanded opportunities.....

 

[All The Kings Men]

There have been very few times that I've been called into the principal's office for things I've said

The most recent was when I publicly and somewhat shittily called out the difference between LA and Montreal as hockey markets.

The issue wasn't with what I said but how I said it. As a result I am trying to say everything I'm saying in this thread in a measured tone free from hyperbole and snark.

 

[Fishhead]

I can tell you that the last couple seasons it's been difficult to even watch Kings hockey on tv. I'd think that makes it even harder to attract the casual fan. I used to be a mini plan ticket holder from the forum days thru the Cup seasons. But living in South OC it became too difficult to make those mid-week games and they basically doubled the price. Bought a very nice TV (to watch most every game) for the cost of 1 ticket not to mention multiple seats. But I think pro sports in general are getting too expensive for the average family to attend more than a couple times a season. But that's a whole nother topic

The move from cable to streaming has been better for movies, TV shows, and similar content. It's been a nightmare for sports programming.

I'm out of market now, so I have the DIsney bundle for my kids. If you have little ones or watch various sports, that bundle with a VPN can be had for around $20-$25 per month. VPN's can be tricky at times but definitely an affordable way to go.

 

[All The Kings Men]

You can say that about almost any non-traditional market though....I would think (not having lived in most other non-traditional markets)

But you are talking about popularity as in going to the games.....I guess I am part of your first...descriptors up there.....played in SoCal for years and years etc and see the expanded opportunities.....

and I don't think that means I'm right and everybody else is wrong

I don't know that there is a "real answer" I was just reacting to the idea that it's undeniably "more popular" in the decade since the first Cup win

 

[Surf Nutz]

I can tell you that the last couple seasons it's been difficult to even watch Kings hockey on tv. I'd think that makes it even harder to attract the casual fan. I used to be a mini plan ticket holder from the forum days thru the Cup seasons. But living in South OC it became too difficult to make those mid-week games and they basically doubled the price. Bought a very nice TV (to watch most every game) for the cost of 1 ticket not to mention multiple seats. But I think pro sports in general are getting too expensive for the average family to attend more than a couple times a season. But that's a whole nother topic

Larger and sharper TV's have really improved the home viewing experience.

While the Big Corpo plan to charge you more and create more fees , along with the population increase and traffic have diminished the live experience for many of us.

The seats at Crapto will have sensors next year to monitor your biology.
You will be charged for an unauthorized carbon emission fee for things like cheering to loud, burping, farting or being pregnant.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Shen Yun is more popular than Kings hockey in SoCal. It’s no contest if you compare who is putting up billboards. So Chinese ballet propaganda understands how to market in a metropolis, unlike a bunch of people who didn’t graduate high school in Canada.

In this market you need to assume dominance in order to capture the audience. Championships are table stakes, not once in 50 years events. Even amateur sports like CIF football and third world games like MLS get this. There should always be a top 10 player on the ice every night.

And you pay the best managers to build around that talent to maintain relevance. This awwshucks Canadian prairie mentality has infected the fan base and generated a legion of excuse makers who view their own team as a small fish who should be happy to eat scraps instead of being eaten.

 

[Fat Elvis]

delete

 

[Surf Nutz]

This is one of my concerns as a fan/employee


Are we indoctrinating new fans faster than we're losing older fans


I know tons of you on this board (and I've heard it from other sources) stopped caring as much once the Cup was won

The momentum of futility was broken. We all got what we wanted.

But did the Cup runs create enough new fans to replace those of you that either can't or won't spend the time and energy on the team anymore?

I ask that not as a criticism but an acknowledgment that with time comes change. The Boston Red Sox and Chicago Cubs are infinitely less interesting as perennial contenders than as generational losers and I know that the Cup wins released a certain percentage of Kings fans from a sense of "rooting obligation"


You're not going to get my honest take on the roster or specific players but THIS conversation?

This is total honesty.

Wow I admire that honesty about your assessments.
If they ever let you go, I would definitely tune in for that!
I know you would say things differently for sure.
Don't hate on those of us who use our freedom to call out the donklegangers on here in the most unabated ways...
If it wasn't for the moderators being scared into submission by the global technocracy police, I would really have some things to say.
Like you and everyone on here we all have censorship constraints in different forms

 

[Fat Elvis]

This is one of my concerns as a fan/employee


Are we indoctrinating new fans faster than we're losing older fans


I know tons of you on this board (and I've heard it from other sources) stopped caring as much once the Cup was won

The momentum of futility was broken. We all got what we wanted.

But did the Cup runs create enough new fans to replace those of you that either can't or won't spend the time and energy on the team anymore?

I actually joined my local Elks lodge to watch the games. Got about 10 folks there that watch most games (which isn't a lot, but I'm in south OC too). Personally, I haven't become less a fan because I know longer spend the time and $ it was costing me when I had seats. I'm using that $ differently (family, kids, wife, travel), but I'm just maturing.. I don't Have to watch every game now, like I did when I was younger. Being 50 something, I can tell you I care less and less about more and more. Kings are at the top of my sports, but further down my list of what's "truly" important.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I actually joined my local Elks lodge to watch the games. Got about 10 folks there that watch most games (which isn't a lot, but I'm in south OC too). Personally, I haven't become less a fan because I know longer spend the time and $ it was costing me when I had seats. I'm using that $ differently (family, kids, wife, travel), but I'm just maturing.. I don't Have to watch every game now, like I did when I was younger. Being 50 something, I can tell you I care less and less about more and more. Kings are at the top of my sports, but further down my list of what's "truly" important.

and this I think may be a part of the future

As new generations have more options it, theoretically, could become harder to create those tried and true fans that we're all talking about


I had a conversation today with a coworker about marketing individuals over teams because it would possibly create a stronger television audience that would produce larger numbers deeper into the playoffs rather than the dropoff we see today because most fanbases are regionally interested rather than nationally invested in the league as a whole


I don't have any answers but I have a bunch of questions about whether or not that's possible, if it would work, if the sport of hockey even lends itself to that kind of focal shift from a marketing perspective... I also think there's a risk in selling a message the product can't deliver

when I see a movie trailer and then the movie is totally different from what I expected I'm disappointed

If we're selling the newer generations on the league as an exciting showcase of flashy personalities and then those personalities never win or appear in deep playoff runs and the overall success of their teams is somewhat hampered by their personalities ...... then what are we actually selling?

Social media engagement? Is that the new measure of popularity? momentary attention?

Lots of questions. Not many answers.

I'm avoiding my responsibilities.

 

[Statto]

If you are flipping channels and have no idea....I would say it's the equivalent to an American flipping through and trying to pickup cricket and rugby and australian rules football....

I think if it intrigues you, you will watch it......but people watch what they grow up with, I remember when we got a sattelite dish, and I'm talking one of those big holy hell he's contacting aliens dish....that rotated and you had to remember what satellite you wanted to go to etc, I found games upon games, I could watch hockey from 4pm til midnight....all day every day......most kids are like that with baseball, basketball, and football, that's what they grew up with etc....

I can't tell you how hard it was to pickup on it.....I can't even tell you if I think it's hard, I don't think it is....you just have to be intrigued a little bit, to watch it more....

I think you are right.

I was hooked the first game I went to and quickly absorbed and understood everything. I never found it hard for a second but I’ve known a lot of people that struggled getting to grips with it, especially those that were introduced via TV first - they then fell in love with it once the want to a game (I dragged along quite a few people over the years ).The UK market was (is) very different as TV coverage was awful on a good day and the media is almost non existent, certainly not enough to make anyone intrigued. At times it felt like it was spread only by word of mouth.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Jesse is right about that. I once got to talk to someone who worked at 710 and he told me people just turn the dial if they ever try to talk about hockey, his exact words were "There is a reason we talk about the Lakers so much"

According to SBJ the Kings had the 3rd lowest local tv ratings in the NHL, only the Devils and Ducks were worse. Some of that might be that a lot of natives have left the state in the last decade or so and the ones moving in may either not be hockey fans or may be fans of different teams. I have noticed in seeing the Kings live in Chicago, Detroit, Minnesota and Nashville that the amount of Kings fans has increased, I assume that is even more noticeable in places like Dallas, Phoenix and Vegas where many people who leave end up.

Jesse is also right, there are more people playing because both teams have done a hell of a job building rinks. When I was a kid growing up in OC I think there were 2 or 3 rinks. Now there are a ton.

I totally agree. I'ts a little bit of a divergent thought I think but absolutely, the rink/hockey infrastructure nowadays vs. my youth is absolutely bonkers. And anecdotally, participation--especially at a higher level--just continues to grow. I think that's where having Kings/Ducks invested in the community helps so much.

That being said it seems like people expected a 2nd "gretzky boom" after the Cup wins and that just never came to fruition. But I'd suggest the torch on the game-at-large getting passed down thru the grassroots will help solidify the markets over time. This is where someone like Zegras is great for the game here. And having impact players from California stick in the NHL instead of just pass thru as "hey I know that guy!" helps imo.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

and I don't think that means I'm right and everybody else is wrong

I don't know that there is a "real answer" I was just reacting to the idea that it's undeniably "more popular" in the decade since the first Cup win

Well I do, so there lmao....to me there probably is no real answer, but also for me, it's undeniably more popular....just based on the opportunties created

 

[All The Kings Men]

undeniably

I DENY!!!

with respect of course