On being a long time fan.

[LAKings88]

So I’ve sat on this thought awhile and I thought getting it out would be a bit of a catharsis.

I’ve thought about long term fans and their relationships to teams. I often wonder how much players think about or care about fans and club history, maybe @All The Kings Men can shed some light if inclined.

My thought started with Hoven and Bernstein calling some fans donkeys. Yes there are less than reasonable people in the world and I get their frustration but I don’t think it is often fair or wise to say such a thing or trivialize the opinion of others. Especially long time fans with differing opinions. The thought also percolated with something DL said about fans, nonchalantly, in an interview. Something in the sense that the fans really aren’t part of it (the team) kind of way. I fully get it. I try to never say us when mentioning the Kings but I know what the team has meant to me my whole life. I’m 45 now. Started watching in 88 when I was 10. I’ve seen so many players come and go and eras come and go. I’ve gone from experiencing wide eyed magic as a youth to not surprised by much anymore. Can’t imagine those who have been around even longer.

Does fandom matter to your average player and management? Is there a sense of respect for time and money invested to an organization? Or is it more of a take it or leave it attitude toward a service provided? Do you feel like the Kings organization does well to show respect towards its fans?

I have always been a fan from a far. Will drive two hours to a practice and barely work up the nerve to say hi to a player/staff but the Kings are a huge part of my daily life (within reason I hope) This forum has been an outlet for me as I get older. To speak to other fans, share takes, and have camaraderie with fellow Kings lovers. Just curious as to how other long term followers feel about their fandom. A little curios about how much teams actually care about this at all.

This sounds very midlife crisis lol but just throwing it out there.

Click to read more...

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

My take on it...'fandom' is #1 priority for ownership. Fandom sells tickets, establishes viewership, buys jerseys, etc. Management's #1 priority should be building a winner....winning brings fandom. The players #1 priority is winning games and individual performance...that establishes their paycheck and hopefully gives them the opportunity for a crack at a championship.

I don't think players put a whole lot of thought or concern into the fans (and I don't mean that in a bad way)...and I could understand why.

It's pretty simple for me.

 

[Sol]

I think fandom is more of a personal experience. While I think Hoven and Bernstein are morons whose opinions should be taken extremely lightly there’s some truth to what DL said. I think the connection to fandom from players and organizations are pretty much how much support they get at the stadium in terms of cheers. I don’t think players care about the fans and realistically there’s no reason to. There will be some players who do care about what the fans have to say because it’s so deafening like in Toronto during the Phaneuf and Kessel days where the environment doesn’t allow for avoidance.

Enjoy being a fan of the Kings but there’s pretty much no reason why the Kings should care about us fans. They just need to sell tickets. That’s it. Everything the organization does for the fans is PR and climbing abroad the social awareness train. Nothing deeper than that.

Don’t overthink it though, be a fan in whichever way you like. This is just my opinion at the end of the day. The only time I ever felt some connection to the team was when I got the chance to talk to Bob Miller in person and you can tell he loved everything about the Kings.

 

[Schmooley]

there’s pretty much no reason why the Kings should care about us fans.

They dont care and rightfully so.
Thats why its funny after Quick had a stinker the other night so many come on a messageboard to defend his honor like hes their little brother.
I love Quick going back to his days at Avon. One of the best pressure goaltenders in history and one of my favorite players ever. But he sucked the other day and thats all it means. There is no fan and player code we have to abide by.

 

[tny760]

i somehow doubt the players themselves care much beyond their play, nor do i really feel they should be obligated to. they've got an, on average, very short career to worry about. that said, i have a great deal of respect for players who do choose to participate in those kingscare type events or support local charities. that's a time investment they don't get back so i think that's rad.

ultimately it's my choice whether i want to monetarily invest in the team or not so i don't think the org, at any level, owes me anything. putting butts in seats is their foremost concern so it's on them to either provide a good or entertaining product.

i probably shouldn't speak on hoven/bernstein any more than i already do but they should think very carefully about who they're talking to sometimes both for personal and professional reasons

 

[BringTheReign]

I think this type of thing matters more when you're not in a major market. The Kings are one of the most valuable NHL franchises in the league each year. That is not principally because we have the biggest or most dedicated fanbase (we don't). It is because we're a team that's: (1) existed for more than 50 years in (2) one of the biggest media cities in the world that (3) had one of the most dominant athletes of all-time playing on it in (4) a time of extreme growth for pro sports franchises in general.

Even in years we've sucked, the team will draw decently with higher than average ticket prices and merchandise will sell because branding gets to put the word "LA" on everything. To make it clear, I think we are lucky that this is the case. Our organization (in my opinion) is much more robust and spends more on facilities, scouting & development, etc because of it. I just think it does insulate management and ownership much more from directly listening to fans. I think at a high level the incentives are the same though--build a winning team (or make it clear to the fans how it will be built) and tickets will sell/dollars will come in.

EDIT: I've been a fan since around '97 when I started playing hockey. My Dad went to his first game in '75, so Kings fandom runs in the family.

 

[Telos]

I would say it matters, but it wouldn't be the most important thing to management, players, or staff unless they have cameras rolling on them It also depends on the person. Some people are nicer and more generous with their time than others. Attitudes are going to vary throughout the organization. Not to mention internal feelings of the franchise are different.

They often didn't grow up worshiping the franchise and are more concerned with their careers and the team as a whole as they jump from franchise to franchise over the years. It is the same with all things really in business, politics, etc...

If it makes you feel better, we are all human, and every celebrity, athlete, or notable person has someone out there that they themselves are a fan of and would gush over in their presence.

 

[LAKings88]

They dont care and rightfully so.
Thats why its funny after Quick had a stinker the other night so many come on a messageboard to defend his honor like hes their little brother.
I love Quick going back to his days at Avon. One of the best pressure goaltenders in history and one of my favorite players ever. But he sucked the other day and thats all it means. There is no fan and player code we have to abide by.

I mean, I don’t expect it to be a priority honestly. They are there to get paid and help the team win. The business is a product to fans. Without fans the revenue doesn’t come in. Just a random thought of all the shit I’ve seen over the years. I’m no insider nor do I particularly want to be. I respect their privacy and I really don’t have a ton to say. I do think players are capable of grasping the importance of the game on people’s lives and recognize those moments. You’re right tho, they aren’t obligated to care about fans.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think fandom is more of a personal experience. While I think Hoven and Bernstein are morons whose opinions should be taken extremely lightly there’s some truth to what DL said. I think the connection to fandom from players and organizations are pretty much how much support they get at the stadium in terms of cheers. I don’t think players care about the fans and realistically there’s no reason to. There will be some players who do care about what the fans have to say because it’s so deafening like in Toronto during the Phaneuf and Kessel days where the environment doesn’t allow for avoidance.

Enjoy being a fan of the Kings but there’s pretty much no reason why the Kings should care about us fans. They just need to sell tickets. That’s it. Everything the organization does for the fans is PR and climbing abroad the social awareness train. Nothing deeper than that.

Don’t overthink it though, be a fan in whichever way you like. This is just my opinion at the end of the day. The only time I ever felt some connection to the team was when I got the chance to talk to Bob Miller in person and you can tell he loved everything about the Kings.

I got to talk to Terry Murray at Frozen Fury and similar experience honestly. Just saw him buying coffee and said hi and he invited me to join him for a few, phenomenal human.

I'd like to think a lot of the players are like this to some degree--appreciative of support, dedicated to the community and service. They don't hate people, but they also have no need to indulge our musings on what 'should' be done. And some of them are absolutely knuckleheads (had basically the polar opposite experience with Sean Avery to the surprise of absolutely no one I'm sure). But at the end of the day it's a business, even if it's an entertainment business.

I will say--I'm not sure how true it is anymore--that once upon a time the Kings recognized a long-term STH damn near every game and these are guys who have been here since '69. They always got great gifts and acknowledgements so even if it's on the business side to butter up your 50 year plus fans, its' still nice.

I"m rambling, but I guess I'm saying it's probably not as heartless as it may seem.

Though Hoven and Bernstein can go f*** themselves with rusty forks for always presenting as 'better fans,' they're just us with a platform and a smug attitude. That's a different conversation entirely. I'd bet even Todd McLellan would take my un-experienced criticism better than those two would.

 

[Sol]

i somehow doubt the players themselves care much beyond their play, nor do i really feel they should be obligated to. they've got an, on average, very short career to worry about. that said, i have a great deal of respect for players who do choose to participate in those kingscare type events or support local charities. that's a time investment they don't get back so i think that's rad.

ultimately it's my choice whether i want to monetarily invest in the team or not so i don't think the org, at any level, owes me anything. putting butts in seats is their foremost concern so it's on them to either provide a good or entertaining product.

i probably shouldn't speak on hoven/bernstein any more than i already do but they should think very carefully about who they're talking to sometimes both for personal and professional reasons

When the Kings start monetarily start investing into us fans for no reason then I can be convinced they care lololol. Until then I am very comfortable watching the game on tv and avoiding LA

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I mean, I don’t expect it to be a priority honestly. They are there to get paid and help the team win. The business is a product to fans. Without fans the revenue doesn’t come in. Just a random thought of all the shit I’ve seen over the years. I’m no insider nor do I particularly want to be. I respect their privacy and I really don’t have a ton to say. I do think players are capable of grasping the importance of the game on people’s lives and recognize those moments. You’re right tho, they aren’t obligated to care about fans.

I'm sure they do. Even as focused as they are in those moments, most of the guys speak pretty fondly of Staples rocking during the Cup runs, for example. It's symbiotic excitement and appreciation even if it's a different level.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Though Hoven and Bernstein can go f*** themselves with rusty forks for always presenting as 'better fans,' they're just us with a platform and a smug attitude. That's a different conversation entirely. I'd bet even Todd McLellan would take my un-experienced criticism better than those two would.

So you are saying that you are a 'donkey'?

 

[Rick Knickleback]

Hey man, I get you. If you really want a dysfunctional relationship, try following the Dodgers or UCLA!

The bolded part below makes sense though right? It's sort of the obverse of the fan's position that the logo on the front of jersey matters more than the name on the back of it. I mean, I love Philip Danault....but I loved Bryan Smolinski and Jarret Stoll too. Hell, I cheered for Joey Stumble in two different stints with the Kings. Guys like Kopi, Doughty, and Quick are so rare in that they transcend the dynamic but for most part, the fans are loyal to the franchise and the players are loyal to the team. DL, at this best, was a clear-eyed assassin. His unsentimental approach is what set the Kings up for 5 great years in 2010-2014 (I still think the Kings could've made a decent run in 2011 when they drew SJ in the first round, except Kopitar blew out a knee a week before the season ended).

My thought started with Hoven and Bernstein calling some fans donkeys. Yes there are less than reasonable people in the world and I get their frustration but I don’t think it is often fair or wise to say such a thing or trivialize the opinion of others. Especially long time fans with differing opinions. The thought also percolated with something DL said about fans, nonchalantly, in an interview. Something in the sense that the fans really aren’t part of it (the team) kind of way.

FWIW: I ran into Toffoli at a pub in downtown Long Beach back around 2016 or so. I was with one of my kids. Dude was totally gracious to both of us and we chatted for about 5 minutes. He put my next beer on his tab.

 

[ricardfromage]

I have been a very long longtime fan and I like the takes I am reading here. My friends license plate was "crb hopr" For how we would avoid paying for parking at the forum and we would do the $5 handshake at the door for entrance (when we had the $5 that is). The team sold it's gear once a year at Culver Ice on an early Saturday Morning. I have one jersey from each member of the team in 83 and several pairs of pants. We would drink beer and have a great time just relaxing and watching the Kings play. Everything changes and in the case of our team it has changed for the better in so many ways and for the worst in others but they are still a great team to watch. So many of my lifelong friends all came from either being a fan of or a member of the Kings over the years. Too many great memories to list but I am happy to see others reminisce. Lots of the new fans are just as great as us old dogs and I love their passion and enthusiasm for certain. Meh, get off of my lawn!

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

Same disconnect as politicians and Hollywood. Income disparity is a reason you won’t connect with most of these guys unless you have other hobby’s or common interests to talk about. I get how they can be uncomfortable when some people just stare at them or are straight up pro ho’s.

I have a few friends who are pro fighters but those friendships are based on hunting and fishing of all things. Only dude I have ever talked to about his career is Dan Henderson and that’s after I fished with him for 3 days and many bud lights and tequila shots. We both have had interactions with Mike Bisping and he actually loved my story about busting his balls for not Puting his weights away when he trained at our gum during his title camp. Spent 3 hours hammered drunk talking about Pride and how awesome the rules were back in the day.

 

[ricardfromage]

I would say it matters, but it wouldn't be the most important thing to management, players, or staff unless they have cameras rolling on them It also depends on the person. Some people are nicer and more generous with their time than others. Attitudes are going to vary throughout the organization. Not to mention internal feelings of the franchise are different.

They often didn't grow up worshiping the franchise and are more concerned with their careers and the team as a whole as they jump from franchise to franchise over the years. It is the same with all things really in business, politics, etc...

If it makes you feel better, we are all human, and every celebrity, athlete, or notable person has someone out there that they themselves are a fan of and would gush over in their presence.

True dat homie, true dat... (tonellis ghost)

 

[King'sPawn]

It's important to remember this is their job/career first and foremost. No animosity, but that has to be their top priority.

As fans, we love/hate/admire them, and we expect some degree of reciprocity to varying degrees (because fans "pay their paychecks").

They all grew up with the same hope and naivete in many degrees. But eventually, as they mature, it will affect them in different ways. Some don't care. Some care enough to the extent that it continues to keep fan support. Some care, and uphold a part of that memory they have growing up, wanting to have a good relationship with the fans, because they remember a hockey player who was nice to them when they were kids.

Short answer: your mileage may vary.

I don't know the ratios of where the league fits in each category. But they are humans doing a job. As much as we get angry over a bad shift, play, game, or season, it's important to be cognizant of this and knowing they process all of this so much differently than fans, which will always have a disconnect.

 

[Sol]

I got to talk to Terry Murray at Frozen Fury and similar experience honestly. Just saw him buying coffee and said hi and he invited me to join him for a few, phenomenal human.

I'd like to think a lot of the players are like this to some degree--appreciative of support, dedicated to the community and service. They don't hate people, but they also have no need to indulge our musings on what 'should' be done. And some of them are absolutely knuckleheads (had basically the polar opposite experience with Sean Avery to the surprise of absolutely no one I'm sure). But at the end of the day it's a business, even if it's an entertainment business.

I will say--I'm not sure how true it is anymore--that once upon a time the Kings recognized a long-term STH damn near every game and these are guys who have been here since '69. They always got great gifts and acknowledgements so even if it's on the business side to butter up your 50 year plus fans, its' still nice.

I"m rambling, but I guess I'm saying it's probably not as heartless as it may seem.

Though Hoven and Bernstein can go f*** themselves with rusty forks for always presenting as 'better fans,' they're just us with a platform and a smug attitude. That's a different conversation entirely. I'd bet even Todd McLellan would take my un-experienced criticism better than those two would.

How was your experience with Terry Murray? Seems like a cool story if you don’t mind

 

[All The Kings Men]

Man oh man do I have a lot to say on this subject.

I'll spare you all here and just say... I brought this topic up during our conversations with the 2012 team when I was allowed to interview a bunch of them in August during their 10th anniversary celebration.

 

[Sol]

Man oh man do I have a lot to say on this subject.

I'll spare you all here and just say... I brought this topic up during our conversations with the 2012 team when I was allowed to interview a bunch of them in August during their 10th anniversary celebration.

If it makes for a good podcast maybe you can give your opinion about it. And maybe how things have changed if it has or hasn’t.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Man oh man do I have a lot to say on this subject.

I'll spare you all here and just say... I brought this topic up during our conversations with the 2012 team when I was allowed to interview a bunch of them in August during their 10th anniversary celebration.

Be interested in the generalities of that......not specifics for obvious reasons.....

I think someone said it, mileage will vary, I remember being a kid running around the forum, the undercarriage of it, during Kings games, I remember getting invited on t the Winnipeg Jets bus to get autographs, I remember going to numerous practices for the away teams at Culver, (Philadelphia, Winnipeg both stand out) I remember practicing with them when I was 12-13-14 for 10-15 minutes, I remember when they moved to Iceoplex from Culver, and then back....

I would say 90% of the players.....have that....appreciation for the fans, because they came from small towns, lived that travel hockey life, the car trips, the bus trips, the hotels, the camaraderie, and they at the very least, appreciate it because they were kids once as well in the same position.... of course there are outliers, always will be.....but for the most part, players will take time out to appreciate the young fans....as much as they can etc.

 

[KINGS17]

Different players react to different fans in different ways. I found guys like Justin Williams, Rob Scuderi, and Ian Lapierriere to be very engaging.

The same goes for Dean Lombardi. Dean would talk your ear off as long as you were asking good questions, or had valid opinions.

With the players, it helps to talk about something other than hockey all the time. They are people just like the rest of us.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Different players react to different fans in different ways. I found guys like Justin Williams, Rob Scuderi, and Ian Lapierriere to be very engaging.

The same goes for Dean Lombardi. Dean would talk your ear off as long as you were asking good questions, or had valid opinions.

With the players, it helps to talk about something other than hockey all the time. They are people just like the rest of us.

Now I want to know which players are weebs.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Now I want to know which players are weebs.

I was not impressed with Gretzky....I will tell you that.....could have been the situation etc, as I look back now I understand it more, but at 12....I know he was an ass....... Jim Fox as well.......

Dave Taylor though was an absolute beaut.....

 

[DoktorJeep]

Consider how low on the popularity meter the NHL is in the USA. Next, look at how little the Kings get attention in their home town. Now realize that the biggest media for the team is two guys who have part time jobs as tweeters. And they go out of their way to call the tiny number of fans names.

The navel gazing that surrounds the whole franchise is pathetic. In the small pond of the NHL, somehow the Kings are little fishes, despite being in the second largest media market.

Maybe no one outside of 50k local die hards gives a shit about the team is because the people who cover it spend their time explaining to the fans why they don’t get how things really work and calling them donkeys.

If you’re constantly correcting peoples opinions about a team that doesn’t win shit year over year, maybe the message is wrong.