Post-Game Talk: Oilers ruin the Yzerplan

[Drivesaitl]

Team shooting has definitely been off across the board. It's like they either find it all at the same time, or can't hit anything all at the same time.

This season we seem to basically be shooting between the two extremes of missing the net trying to pick corners or cresting it in an attempt to just get it on goal. They'll find the correct middle ground eventually, but in the mean time it can be quite frustrating to watch.

For sure. But Oilers are the most watched, studied, schemed team in the league. for at least few reasons that we were the legend PP and we were the team going all the way to SC final, third we have McD and Drai and Booch weapons. Teams are scheming against us a lot because they have to.

Hyman has been scouted too. A couple things he was doing a lot was being beside net looking for shot pass rebound. he used to be alone there, not anymore. The other thing is Hyman would often take a pass, reverse direction, and beat goalie wide going other way, sometimes just stuffing it in while goalie is correcting the other way. Goalies have seen and scouted this too. Many of the reverses that worked for Hyman last season suddenly are not.

Look back as well at the "Pisani" move. He was no natural scorer, but he developed a strategy of coming in on net with speed, moving across just enough to spread pads and then tucking puck in. Worked like a charm until it didn't.

Hyman is a much more accomplished scorer than a Pisani but Hyman too only has certain ways he scores. Certain Ryan Smyth kinds of ways. But Smyth was much better at finishing in tight checking. You could try to cover Smyth and he was still finding a way to tuck it in. Hyman needs a couple greasy goals to go in to get some confidence back. Team should maybe put him with Drai, try something different.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I feel like its same to McLeod, JP, Yamamoto etc.

Their fine when the contracts are cheap but soon as they need a raise it becomes a problem. Skinner going to be the same. Anything beyond 2.6m is too risky. I don’t think you can trust him. Goaltending is so all over the place though. Which is probably more reason to not pay for it unless you have a top 10 goaltender. (Which we don’t). Another problem for another day though.

Determination has to be made whether the player makes a difference. Good orgs will make that kind of determination of attribution. Like who's stirring the drink on a club, what is the core?

Skinner falls outside of that presently and would have to do a hell of a lot, put together whole solid season(s) to be considered more than that. Its what frustrates me with Debrusk and Michaels is they are cionstantly suggeting such things as the 16 game win streak are due to Skinner, that he's having that degree of influence on games. The team wins when the players are playing great and covering and preventing a lot or dominating puck possession.

 

[McHelpus]

Team shooting has definitely been off across the board. It's like they either find it all at the same time, or can't hit anything all at the same time.

This season we seem to basically be shooting between the two extremes of missing the net trying to pick corners or cresting it in an attempt to just get it on goal. They'll find the correct middle ground eventually, but in the mean time it can be quite frustrating to watch.

Yup, they are currently ranked 32nd in shooting % but they are 3rd on shots on goal. It's usually the other way around for us.

 

[Fourier]

Rocket Richard?

Hey, we boh grew up watching Wild and Wooley WCHL. Seemed like every star player could fight and didn't mind doing it and thus attracting NHL interest from Boston to Philly to STL and other parts.

Of course old school hockey fighting and starring were one and the same thing. Eddie Shack was another potential star that was unforgettable on and off the ice and both he and Howe could fight so well that they made a truce with each other to not do it for stints because if was so painful figthing an opponent who could lay a beating. Shack and Howe had a mutual respect that either could lose in a tilt. They were the duo in this, they only avoided each other.

Cough. Larry Robinson. What a treasure. My favorite player before the OIlers came into the league.

No doubt there were lots of stars that could fight. Fewer former MVP's as the original post mentioned. And yes I am definitely old enough to remember when hockey earned the line...I went to a fight last night and a hockey game broke out.

The WHA was particularly wild in the early years. Basically Slapshot with more skill. Lots of legendary characters.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[FlameChampion]

Determination has to be made whether the player makes a difference. Good orgs will make that kind of determination of attribution. Like who's stirring the drink on a club, what is the core?

Skinner falls outside of that presently and would have to do a hell of a lot, put together whole solid season(s) to be considered more than that. Its what frustrates me with Debrusk and Michaels is they are cionstantly suggeting such things as the 16 game win streak are due to Skinner, that he's having that degree of influence on games. The team wins when the players are playing great and covering and preventing a lot or dominating puck possession.

The problem with Skinner is consistency in my opinion.

When you look at his overall numbers maybe they are fine (I would say still lacking). But you just never really know what you will get from him. I feel like hes worse at the start of games and gets better as game goes on. Similarly, worse at beginning of series than end. Worse at beginning of season etc.

His play is basically indicative of how the team plays. He plays well, team plays well. He plays poor, the team plays poor.

Just feels rare that he steals a game that the team shouldn’t win. Not saying it doesn’t happen but its rare.

How many nights does he outplay the goalie? I’m sure its less than 50%.

I think he deserves some credit for outdueling Oettinger in last playoffs. I don’t want to pile on him too much because I don’t think the Oilers are an easy team to play on when they aren’t playing well. But I personally just don’t trust him much. I think hes closer to a backup than a starter. Which is fine as hes not paid starter money exactly. But I don’t feel confident with him as the starter and his next deal scares me.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Outstanding.

 

[Drivesaitl]

No doubt there were lots of stars that could fight. Fewer former MVP's as the original post mentioned. And yes I am definitely old enough to remember when hockey earned the line...I went to a fight last night and a hockey game broke out.

The WHA was particularly wild in the early years. Basically Slapshot with more skill. Lots of legendary characters.

Frank Beating Beaton. Carlson Bros. Harry Neale was also a hilarious coach in WHA. They could've used some more of his material on Slapshot.

"We can't win at home, we can't win on the road, we have to find somewhere else to play"

Poor Messier broke into WHA as an underage players. (I went to school with Mark) and he told all the stories about how two of the vets that were roomies and that were maybe thought to mentor him were teaching him hammertavern basics instead including what places on road had after hours and how to sneak into room at 5am. Mark was in trouble a hell of a lot. haha. The player in slapshot that is piss drunk, well, that sort of thing happened a lot in WHA.

One rink had clear plexi instead of wooden boards. The players would intentionally congregate and pretend to battle for puck in certain well dressed, cough corners where the view was more enticing. Even as a kid watching on TV I figured clear boards combined with young women in short skirts or hot pants in front rows was just looking for trouble. haha. I think it was the New England arena but I could be wrong. Clear plexi boards, WHA groupies/puck bunnies. League had it all going on.

 

[tardigrade81]

Oh yeah I eat those occasionally, they've got a mild kick - definitely spicy but for me it's nothing exceptionally unmanageable. I like the ones that come in the black package a little more, similiar spice level just sightly different flavor.

I usually get em at Walmart.

They're a lazy meal though - I typically do like chicken or beef meal prep with rice, and then fresh vegetables with a hummus. Theres a local company from a couple of guys from the Caribbean that does scotch bonnet sauces - they're kind of my jam at the moment. Depending on the sauce they're about as spicy to twice as spicy as the buldak stuff just with like a less chemical flavor, lol. And you can put them on anything, which is nice.

The chip though... Never sweat like that before in my life. Still not sure my gut is the same since, lol. Just straight instant nausea and like excruciating pain in my entire mouth through my entire esophagus and stomach. Like 9 out of 10 pain, worse than blocking a Slapshot without a cup pain. Never again. Only one thing I've ever experienced hurt more than that.

Well damn!!!

I’ll never attempt that one chip challenge that would kill me I think lmao.

 

[Fourier]

The problem with Skinner is consistency in my opinion.

When you look at his overall numbers maybe they are fine (I would say still lacking). But you just never really know what you will get from him. I feel like hes worse at the start of games and gets better as game goes on. Similarly, worse at beginning of series than end. Worse at beginning of season etc.

His play is basically indicative of how the team plays. He plays well, team plays well. He plays poor, the team plays poor.

Just feels rare that he steals a game that the team shouldn’t win. Not saying it doesn’t happen but its rare.

How many nights does he outplay the goalie? I’m sure its less than 50%.

I think he deserves some credit for outdueling Oettinger in last playoffs. I don’t want to pile on him too much because I don’t think the Oilers are an easy team to play on when they aren’t playing well. But I personally just don’t trust him much. I think hes closer to a backup than a starter. Which is fine as hes not paid starter money exactly. But I don’t feel confident with him as the starter and his next deal scares me.

The thing that needs to be stated with Skinner though is that he currently has the 36th highest cap hit of any goalie in the league (though this includes Price and Lehner). Even being somewhat inconsistent he is still a bargain. Most top end goalies will be a lot closer to $10M than to $5M very soon. It will be interesting to see what he gets on his next deal if the Oilers win or come close.

 

[Soundwave]

The thing that needs to be stated with Skinner though is that he currently has the 36th highest cap hit of any goalie in the league (though this includes Price and Lehner). Even being somewhat inconsistent he is still a bargain. Most top end goalies will be a lot closer to $10M than to $5M very soon. It will be interesting to see what he gets on his next deal if the Oilers win or come close.

He's not gonna be here most likely in 2 years if he wants a lot of money. Pickard is giving similar production to him for like 1 million dollars, secondly our cap structure with an expensive goalie probably doesn't work. McDavid and Bouchard have to get their money.

Our High Danger chances against I believe is like third best in the league looking at Natural Stat Trick even with some hiccups this year.

We don't allow many high danger chances against systemically (also why the people flailing like a chicken with its head cut off because no Ceci early in the season were being stupid). That should allow a lot of goalies to come in and do well.

 

[brentashton]

I don’t want to get too ahead of myself but the Skinner new contract scares me lol

Stu’s play has put him in a place to get a bump but he has not earned the type of contract that Swayman, Shesterkin, Oettinger, Ullmark etc are signing.

He’s below that class of tender.

Still, he’s also above a Tristan Jarry, so maybe he’s a 6 to 6.5 M type. Not sure of the years.

What might be more concerning is because he's a UFA, there is a team and GM out there that “over values” him and gives him a crazy offer that isn’t within the Oiler salary structure.

 

[FlameChampion]

The thing that needs to be stated with Skinner though is that he currently has the 36th highest cap hit of any goalie in the league (though this includes Price and Lehner). Even being somewhat inconsistent he is still a bargain. Most top end goalies will be a lot closer to $10M than to $5M very soon. It will be interesting to see what he gets on his next deal if the Oilers win or come close.

The numbers don’t really surprise me. A lot of backup goalies get paid 2m+. Is actually a lot of starting goalies that don’t get paid that well. Its changing now with Hellebuyck, Oettinger, Swayman etc and Shesterykin obviously.

Its why I said I don’t want to pile on him because we are getting close to value with plus/minus your opinion on him.

But I don’t think hes a 5+ goalie and I am sure thats what his next deal will be. I would have to see a monumental shift in his play and consistency. Not for me personally.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The problem with Skinner is consistency in my opinion.

When you look at his overall numbers maybe they are fine (I would say still lacking). But you just never really know what you will get from him. I feel like hes worse at the start of games and gets better as game goes on. Similarly, worse at beginning of series than end. Worse at beginning of season etc.

His play is basically indicative of how the team plays. He plays well, team plays well. He plays poor, the team plays poor.

Just feels rare that he steals a game that the team shouldn’t win. Not saying it doesn’t happen but its rare.

How many nights does he outplay the goalie? I’m sure its less than 50%.

I think he deserves some credit for outdueling Oettinger in last playoffs. I don’t want to pile on him too much because I don’t think the Oilers are an easy team to play on when they aren’t playing well. But I personally just don’t trust him much. I think hes closer to a backup than a starter. Which is fine as hes not paid starter money exactly. But I don’t feel confident with him as the starter and his next deal scares me.

More than that the right skilled teams that can make a lot of reasonable cross ice plays or set up some 3 point passing will eventually expose him. Playoff quality clubs that are confident scoring generally expose him. So that the limitations of him as a goalie in his movement become bigger issues at the most important time. I'm fine with him being our regular season goalie. Oilers should look for another at TDL. Skinner is replaceable.

 

[Soundwave]

I wouldn't be buying a Stuart Skinner Oilers jersey, lets just put it that way. Having broken down the cap two years from now, if he wants more than 5 per, it's basically cya.

The Oilers play a defensive system that doesn't give up a lot of high danger chances against, in such a system any number of goalies could likely do well, and we're seeing exactly that even now, even though Skinner isn't paid a lot, Pickard has similar numbers to him for less than half the cost (1m vs 2.6m).

If he wants a lot of money on his next deal, adios most likely. He needs to show a lot more in the playoffs.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The thing that needs to be stated with Skinner though is that he currently has the 36th highest cap hit of any goalie in the league (though this includes Price and Lehner). Even being somewhat inconsistent he is still a bargain. Most top end goalies will be a lot closer to $10M than to $5M very soon. It will be interesting to see what he gets on his next deal if the Oilers win or come close.

The bargain in isolation. But the bargain not being present in Oilers goalie stable what with the paying for Campbell and then the subsequent buyout, which of course Not Skinners fault but another reason Oilers should have just let Campbell play out of it, use Skinner or Pickard as back up and move one guy out.

I guess my point is the Oilers botched the goalie file so severely that we're still paying a lot for goaltending and we got this instead...

 

[brentashton]

I wouldn't be buying a Stuart Skinner Oilers jersey, lets just put it that way. Having broken down the cap two years from now, if he wants more than 5 per, it's basically cya.

The Oilers play a defensive system that doesn't give up a lot of high danger chances against, in such a system any number of goalies could likely do well, and we're seeing exactly that even now, even though Skinner isn't paid a lot, Pickard has similar numbers to him for less than half the cost (1m vs 2.6m).

If he wants a lot of money on his next deal, adios most likely. He needs to show a lot more in the playoffs.

I wouldn’t buy one, either way.

 

[SaltNPeca]

So, what shall we complain about tonight, Fellas?

Connor likely won't be #3 all time fewest games to 1k points!

 

[Drivesaitl]

Stu’s play has put him in a place to get a bump but he has not earned the type of contract that Swayman, Shesterkin, Oettinger, Ullmark etc are signing.

He’s below that class of tender.

Still, he’s also above a Tristan Jarry, so maybe he’s a 6 to 6.5 M type. Not sure of the years.

What might be more concerning is because he's a UFA, there is a team and GM out there that “over values” him and gives him a crazy offer that isn’t within the Oiler salary structure.

Let the contract be somebody elses problem. Theres enough pundits that confuse win % with Skinners actual impact on same so we could even trade him at some point. Some team will overestimate him just like many do.

If Skinner was great it wouldn't be an argument whether he's really better than Pickard. heh

 

[Soundwave]

Connor likely won't be #3 all time fewest games to 1k points!

Well you can always remind yourself McDavid also plays against real goaltenders, not sub-ECHL tier goaltending the 80s guys were racking up points against (love ya Wayne, but lets be honest).

 

[brentashton]

Let the contract be somebody elses problem. Theres enough pundits that confuse win % with Skinners actual impact on same so we could even trade him at some point. Some team will overestimate him just like many do.

If Skinner was great it wouldn't be an argument whether he's really better than Pickard. heh

Very true.

However, I also don’t see anything of value in the marketplace that would be an upgrade over Skinner for any less dollars.

And I say marketplace, because the Oilers don’t have an in house solution. Rodrique? baa haa haa. That’s the sad state of NHL goaltending.

 

[Soundwave]

Very true.

However, I also don’t see anything of value in the marketplace that would be an upgrade over Skinner for any less dollars.

And I say marketplace, because the Oilers don’t have an in house solution. Rodrique? baa haa haa. That’s the sad state of NHL goaltending.

I mean the fact that some random AHL goalie/career back up in Pickard is able to put up similar numbers to Skinner probably is already telling you a lot of NHL goalies could do fine here.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Very true.

However, I also don’t see anything of value in the marketplace that would be an upgrade over Skinner for any less dollars.

And I say marketplace, because the Oilers don’t have an in house solution. Rodrique? baa haa haa. That’s the sad state of NHL goaltending.

Trade doesn't need to be for another live body goalie. Several fairly disposable goalies are in the market every year and it doesn't take a lot of one for this club to pile on wins. We could get an asset in trade for Skinner and then just rent a goalie at TDL. No real reason not to.

If the scuttlebutt is agent suggesting a big pay day for Skinner then just forget it. Get an asset instead.

 

[brentashton]

I mean the fact that some random AHL goalie/career back up in Pickard is able to put up similar numbers to Skinner probably is already telling you a lot of NHL goalies could do fine here.

Except I don’t think Skinner is “doing fine” here. He’s meh, at best. If your going to put 6 million into that position I would hope there would be improvement.

 

[Soundwave]

Except I don’t think Skinner is “doing fine” here. He’s meh, at best. If your going to put 6 million into that position I would hope there would be improvement.

I'd say 5 max unless you're getting someone who can win games on their own.