Post-Game Talk: Oilers ruin the Yzerplan

[Stauf4Prez]

I don’t want to get too ahead of myself but the Skinner new contract scares me lol

Oh 100%.

 

[Arpeggio]

Emberson looks great, that's going to turn out to be a fantastic deal.

 

[K1984]

I don’t want to get too ahead of myself but the Skinner new contract scares me lol

Everyone is worried about what the Draisaitl + McDavid + Bouchard contracts will do to the cap structure - I have no concerns about fitting those in, but it's Skinner that is the big question mark.

It's at the point where I don't know if I see a way to keep him no matter how well he plays. If he knocks it out of the park we'll lose him because he'll command $7M++ AAV and I don't know if that will be doable. If he kind of stays the same as now I still don't know if you keep him because he'll probably command $5++ AAV and I'm not sure that that is a better alternative than trying to moneyball the position instead.

 

[VeteranPresence]

By the way, Mattias Ekholm is a total stud. This guy -- despite his advancing years -- remains one of the best both-ways' defencemen I've ever seen. I only wish I had been able to appreciate him more in his Nashville years but didn't because... Nashville.

Anyway, Ekholm is +76 in his 109 games with Edmonton. Here is the plus/minus of ALL NHL PLAYERS since he was traded to the Oilers:
+76 Ekholm
+69 Forsling
+52 DeMelo
+52 McDavid
+50 Bouchard
+47 Hughes
+45 Toews

Since he was traded, Ekholm is literally the #1 player in the NHL in terms of even-strength results when the player is on the ice.

Hear hear. Ekholm might just be the player we need to fix Nurse, ironic as that is. And as the team warms up here approaching the ten game mark, I am more and more confident in Bouch's ability to "graduate" to a different partner while still providing ice-tilting offensive metrics. It would be a whole lot easier to find a left-handed defensive partner to fill that gap than it will be to find someone who can deliver Ekholm-like results on the right side so Darnell is not such a liability.

If we can grab someone like Gavrikov or Ferraro, I would love to try something like this:

Gavrikov-Bouchard
Nurse-Ekholm
Kulak-Emberson
Stecher

 

[Oilslick941611]

U

It’s obvious that the away jersey advert for Karbon-X was the reason for the win.

That logo really bothers me. It’s an X that looks like a K or a K that looks like an X, one of those designs that people think looks good on paper, but then hire a designer out of school and fails at execution.

 

[PositiveCashFlow]

It's kind of funny that a team called the "Oilers" has a jersey sponsor logo for a company that sells carbon offset credits

 

[PositiveCashFlow]

Trying to think up a witty response to this but too flabbergasted.

Unlike.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Laws are laws (imperfect often times), but that guy wasn't walking up to him to kiss him on the cheek. IMO the worker felt physically threatened and did what he had to to protect himself.

If I decked somebody the daily times I was dealing with an escalated situation in my work life I would be in jail. De-escalation is also a skill and paramount in dealing with most situations. As others mentioned the response was over the top and the head slam take down into hard floor easily could've killed a person. By my reckoning the escalation was over the first time the loud mouth got popped, for sure it was by the 2nd time when the smaller guy punched him. At that point the take down, its probably not required.

A person who is verbally abusive and threatening to staff in an establishment of course is a jerk, and maybe even a dangerous jerk but that doesn't deem or permit lethal methods being used. If the perp did die in the altercation the manslaughter charge is a possibility. If I ever executed a Head slam take down like this I would be fired. Instantly, and Police called. Least intrusive means of intervention, always. If you have to execute a take down (and its widely discouraged now) then its your responsibility to execute that as safely as possible.

That said none of us were there. Could have been stuff we're not aware of, maybe there was a concealed weapon,

In the US, at least in Certain States the self defense statement could be more plausible. We don't have the same protection here in Canada. jmo

A last take here is that feeling threatened is arguably different from being threatened. Who physically aggressed first is a consideration. Was the throwing stuff aggression? What the courts are for I guess if this goes to court is determining. But in life probably important not to go to such extremes because you don't control what the ramification will be ultimately.

just my two cents

 

[Drivesaitl]

I thought spice didn't bother me - but after trying a few of the "World's Spiciest..." Challenges, I can confidently say I do feel it, just takes a few more orders of magnitude for it to kick in.

The chocolate wasn't bad, but the chip legit made me think I was going to die. Won't be doing that shenanigans again. The toilet afterwards...

But I do confidently drown everything I eat in some sort of hot sauce. Have since I was a kid, there's pictures of me being like 2 years old and tears rolling down my face from eating spicy chips - apparently I'd scream bloody murder if people tried to take em away.

I found out a hard way that the Carolina Reaper Pepper, sometimes nicknamed "Death Pepper" is adequately named. I grew one two years ago. The shizzle shouldn't be allowed. haha.

I do pretty well on the heat chart. I tap out around Habanero.

The guy has been done since he left Ottawa. He was mediocre his first year in San Jose and awful the rest of his time there. The year he recorded 101 points he was a -26. Think about how many goals against you have to be on the ice for to get that stat. The Sharks let him focus on offense to boost his trade value to find a sucker to dump his contract on. He was the last player we needed to add to this team.

As I've mentioned lots the biggest concern with Karlson is he's a walking cancer disaster in the room. He was a captain in Ottawa and allowed the shitstorm to happen there that was unproven, that was allegations, and blew himself and Hoffman and the team into smithereens. Then he goes to SJ at which time was still a coimpetitive side and turns the room there immediately into a lol country club. Now doing exactly the same in Pittsburgh.

At one time this guy had it, and was a premier player and played the right way and was a leader. At some point that changed and he was a legend in his mind that didn't have to do anything and could do whatever he liked. The worm really turned with this guy. He went Hollywood.

Aside from the Hoffman debacle in Ottawa Karlson was reprimanded because he making public statement about Bell media "being the worst despicable company ever" was speed dialing and reaming out Bell employees and being a general asshat about it. The org had to not sublty remind Karlson, King idiot, that Bell was a main sponsor of the team, and that they could pull out at anytime.

Oh, when chopping these don't ever, never, rub your eyes. Of course I did that...But man, even soap and water is often not enough. The capsaisin is still there.

 

[guymez]

I heard at some point that we only had like 7 hits. May have been after 2 periods? Pretty pathetic IMO.

I think that was after 2 periods but its not nearly enough.

I was suprised to see that Emberson had the 2nd most hits in that game with 3.

 

[FlameChampion]

Everyone is worried about what the Draisaitl + McDavid + Bouchard contracts will do to the cap structure - I have no concerns about fitting those in, but it's Skinner that is the big question mark.

It's at the point where I don't know if I see a way to keep him no matter how well he plays. If he knocks it out of the park we'll lose him because he'll command $7M++ AAV and I don't know if that will be doable. If he kind of stays the same as now I still don't know if you keep him because he'll probably command $5++ AAV and I'm not sure that that is a better alternative than trying to moneyball the position instead.

I feel like its same to McLeod, JP, Yamamoto etc.

Their fine when the contracts are cheap but soon as they need a raise it becomes a problem. Skinner going to be the same. Anything beyond 2.6m is too risky. I don’t think you can trust him. Goaltending is so all over the place though. Which is probably more reason to not pay for it unless you have a top 10 goaltender. (Which we don’t). Another problem for another day though.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's kind of funny that a team called the "Oilers" has a jersey sponsor logo for a company that sells carbon offset credits

I wondered about that. Who even vets this stuff. I'm trying to figure if its better than Play Alberta. Is this a rotating or home/road logo thing? did they discontinue the play alberta patch. Confused.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Not going to lie, I liked the set up at the end of the game with Drai and Arv at the faceoff dots. As good as the PP has been, the lack of a one timer on the LW side has always been it's biggest drawback.

They got away with it when Klef, Nurse, Barrie, and Bouch were quick to reset to RNH on the LW side, but now that Bouchard is holding onto the puck more and the set up has shifted from the line of RNH-McDavid-Drai across to the middle of the zone to a triangle of McDrai and Bouch, Nuge often ends up on an island not really threatening anything. Thus PKers are free to ignore him and focus on taking away space from the others.

Hyman-McDavid-Drai
Arvidsson-Bouch

Perry-RNH-Skinner
Nurse-Ekholm

With RNH set up in the LW dot and 3 one time options available for him to set up.

Swapping Nuge for Arvidsson on the PP could be lethal.

Great post

 

[guymez]

Geez, I was just reading Bruce McCurdy's player-grades from the Detroit game. Usually the 'Cult of Hockey' guys are quite respectful (if critical) of Nurse, but this is McCurdy's take from this game:

Darnell Nurse, 3 / 10
Played in a complex rotation that included 12:13 of left defence with Stecher and 7:25 on the right side with Kulak, as coaches Knoblauch and Coffey have been trying a new wrinkle to maximize their group. Nurse had his issues at times, including being among the defensive culprits on both Detroit goals. Also took Edmonton’s lone penalty of the evening.
GAS: ES +2/-7; ST 0.

Didn't realize he was that bad (I missed this game, just saw highlights).

Oh, Darnell...! (He did have a few good-ish games recently...)

___________________________

By the way, Mattias Ekholm is a total stud. This guy -- despite his advancing years -- remains one of the best both-ways' defencemen I've ever seen. I only wish I had been able to appreciate him more in his Nashville years but didn't because... Nashville.

Anyway, Ekholm is +76 in his 109 games with Edmonton. Here is the plus/minus of ALL NHL PLAYERS since he was traded to the Oilers:
+76 Ekholm
+69 Forsling
+52 DeMelo
+52 McDavid
+50 Bouchard
+47 Hughes
+45 Toews

Since he was traded, Ekholm is literally the #1 player in the NHL in terms of even-strength results when the player is on the ice.

Now, you can argue that he gets considerable ice-time with McDavid, Bouchard, Draisaitl, etc., and that's true (to a degree). But we pause to remember that McDavid, for example, did not have exceptional plus/minus results prior to Ekholm's arrival ('22 playoffs aside). Ekholm's arrival also pretty-much exactly coincided with Bouchard's emergence into modest stardom (naturally Bouchard's ice-time and deployment went way up when Barrie was traded away for Ekholm).

In 111 games prior to Ekholm becoming his partner, Bouchard was -3. In 111 games after Ekholm became his partner, Bouchard is +50.

Ekholm is getting slower of foot (natural at his age), but he consistently has a remarkable ability to be in the right places at the correct time. He judges very expertly when to go, when to sag, when to attack, when to stay back, when to go to the front of the net, when to go behind and dig out a puck. (In short, he's the anti-Nurse.)

So far, I've talked defence only. But Ekholm also has considerable value offensively. Since coming to the Oilers, Ekholm is 19th highest in D-scoring in the NHL. That in itself is impressive for a remarkable defensive player, but get this: Since coming to Edmonton, Ekholm is 5th HIGHEST IN THE NHL in even-strength points. (He has has more ES points than Karlsson or Josi or Hedman since he came to Edmonton.)

I adore this player.

Im right there with you.
Ekholm is a gem and this defence would be in shamples defensively without him.

Regarding Nurse...here is an interesting thing...watch the Wings first goal and try to figure out what the hell he was doing.

 

[K1984]

I feel like its same to McLeod, JP, Yamamoto etc.

Their fine when the contracts are cheap but soon as they need a raise it becomes a problem. Skinner going to be the same. Anything beyond 2.6m is too risky. I don’t think you can trust him. Goaltending is so all over the place though. Which is probably more reason to not pay for it unless you have a top 10 goaltender. (Which we don’t). Another problem for another day though.

I was going to say in the same post that we seem to keep getting burned by having the guy that is maybe good, but not consistent, that might be a player, but might fizzle out have their contracts due right at the time when we don't know what they are. Guys that produce or show juuuuuust enough to command a healthy AAV, but could easily not live up to it.

Even Bouchard fits into this camp in a sense. Can you pay a guy $11 on AAV when we don't really know if he can actually be the true #1 or not?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I think that was after 2 periods but its not nearly enough.

I was suprised to see that Emberson had the 2nd most hits in that game with 3.

Emberson likes to hit but he isn't overly big. Kin of like Matt Benning was for us. That said I'll take that over Dallas Eakins hockey all day long!

 

[Drivesaitl]

Swapping Nuge for Arvidsson on the PP could be lethal.

Great post

meh. We're just on this now because RNH is having one of his low ebbs. One of the things that works with him is he's a perfect bumper for a star studded PP because he won't overplay the puck, he will often just make the play that is there. Arvid will often overplay the puck and is too small to be strong on puck. So with Arivd its easier to get puck off him and teams have geared to this, even the Oilers were stripping Arvid from puck when he was a King.

Arvid is a good puck control player that can move well in traffic. JMO he's better used in 5 on 5. On PP he tries to do too much. We already have those players on the PP. You need guys that are just safe possession bumpers that will make the right probability play. RNH ticks that box a lot of the time.

 

[FlameChampion]

I was going to say in the same post that we seem to keep getting burned by having the guy that is maybe good, but not consistent, that might be a player, but might fizzle out have their contracts due right at the time when we don't know what they are. Guys that produce or show juuuuuust enough to command a healthy AAV, but could easily not live up to it.

Even Bouchard fits into this camp in a sense. Can you pay a guy $11 on AAV when we don't really know if he can actually be the true #1 or not?

I think it’s an organizational problem when it comes to the skaters. We aren’t developing players in general well. We generally burn the ELC off before we know what we have. And I think in general we don’t play the rest of the roster enough. Every coach just plays our big guns too much. Although I think this was more a problem than Holloway, Broberg versus Yamamoto and JP.

Skinner doesn’t really fall into this category for whatever reason either. I think we play him probably too much honestly. The goaltending decisions (Schwartz I guess?) have always been weird to me going back multiple coaches. Which is probably even more reason to not pay for one.

Swapping Nuge for Arvidsson on the PP could be lethal.

Great post

I think RNH just has to shoot the puck more honestly. Same with McDavid. I think both of them are guilty of looking for the perfect pass. Would probably work better getting Hyman a goal too. He just needs one to bounce off of him rather than McDavid looking to get it to Hyman on a four way passing play.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This team definitely needs some more players who have a shooters mentality and can snipe

Draisaitl and Bouchard kinda the only two. Skinner maybe. McDavid has a great shot but dude doesn’t shoot anymore.

Yeah. Even the players that are supposed to be here to score are not scoring. None of them are commensurate with even reasonable expectation.

Skinner has 2 goals (not enough)
Nuge goal (not enough
Hyman, Arvid etc zero goals (you kidding me?)

Brown, Henrique, Perry all have just one goal.

On the board here seems like we've had bottom level expectations of anybody not named McD or Drai.

As per usual McDrai, Ekholm, Booch are carrying the club. Hyman, Nuge used to be part of that core but this season not even being that.
Nearly 10 games in and it looks like its time for McD to start yelling dig in or something again. Vast majority of club haven't even checked in.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Yeah. Even the players that are supposed to be here to score are not scoring. None of them are commensurate with even reasonable expectation.

Skinner has 2 goals (not enough)
Nuge goal (not enough
Hyman, Arvid etc zero goals (you kidding me?)

Brown, Henrique, Perry all have just one goal.

On the board here seems like we've had bottom level expectations of anybody not named McD or Drai.

As per usual McDrai, Ekholm, Booch are carrying the club. Hyman, Nuge used to be part of that core but this season not even being that.
Nearly 10 games in and it looks like it’s time for McD to start yelling dig in or something again. Vast majority of club haven't even checked in.

Whole team is snake bitten. It will come.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It’s amazing how fast an attitude changes when you get smacked in the face. We’ve probably got an entire generation at least that never learned that lesson growing up on the school yard.

This too is true. With too much protection comes this danger of not having respect for others. Combine this with people that may or may not be using substances and the normal inhibition is non existent. The same as you describe results in much more road rage now too. People not knowing how, or even learning how to let it go. "oh, I was dissed on the road I have to chase down some buddy for the next hour and jump him when he runs out of gas" They live among us. Of course with these people even physically assaulting female drivers.

But then you add internet and online interaction and people don't know how to civilly interact in person, through stressful circumstance anymore.

 

[K1984]

Yeah. Even the players that are supposed to be here to score are not scoring. None of them are commensurate with even reasonable expectation.

Skinner has 2 goals (not enough)
Nuge goal (not enough
Hyman, Arvid etc zero goals (you kidding me?)

Brown, Henrique, Perry all have just one goal.

On the board here seems like we've had bottom level expectations of anybody not named McD or Drai.

As per usual McDrai, Ekholm, Booch are carrying the club. Hyman, Nuge used to be part of that core but this season not even being that.
Nearly 10 games in and it looks like its time for McD to start yelling dig in or something again. Vast majority of club haven't even checked in.

I think the only player that can justifiably yell at anyone to get going at this point is probably Ekholm, and to a lesser extent Draisaitl, and he only earned that right recently.

McDavid is nowhere near where he needs to be still, and that goes for most of the offensive players on the roster. Bouchard scored a key goal last night, but was not good for most of the game. Ditto for Nuge, less the goal. Hyman is at least still creating chances and moving the play in the right direction, and Arvidsson is starting to enter this camp as well.

The damn will break over time, but I don't think it's fair to put McDavid or Bouch on a pedestal when they have both been very, very underwhelming to say the least to start the season individually.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Whole team is snake bitten. It will come.

Or its a eunuch.


jk buddy

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think the only player that can justifiably yell at anyone to get going at this point is probably Ekholm, and to a lesser extent Draisaitl, and he only earned that right recently.

McDavid is nowhere near where he needs to be still, and that goes for most of the offensive players on the roster. Bouchard scored a key goal last night, but was not good for most of the game. Ditto for Nuge, less the goal. Hyman is at least still creating chances and moving the play in the right direction, and Arvidsson is starting to enter this camp as well.

The damn will break over time, but I don't think it's fair to put McDavid or Bouch on a pedestal when they have both been very, very underwhelming to say the least to start the season individually.

Oh agreed. PPG is not where McD ought to be. He's been hovering around 50th in scoring race.

I defend Hyman all day but a lot of players including him are very guilty of pad stuffing, of not getting puck up, not baring down on scoring plays. Arvid is another legend at this.

When confidence occurs it seems like players are more able to make that last play to finish. When they're not feeling it they're filling pads with Rubber. Hyman hasn't been great at playmaking either. Arvid has been and last few games finally somebody other than Drai is doing some feeding.

Even Skinner is struggling right now.

Something I look for in players, in a game is "does that shot or stuff on net even have a chance" Difference between finishing and shooting to score vs just getting puck on net. We have a lot of guys just doing the latter and hoping nobody notices.

 

[K1984]

Oh agreed. PPG is not where McD ought to be. He's been hovering around 50th in scoring race.

I defend Hyman all day but a lot of players including him are very guilty of pad stuffing, of not getting puck up, not baring down on scoring plays. Arvid is another legend at this.

When confidence occurs it seems like players are more able to make that last play to finish. When they're not feeling it they're filling pads with Rubber. Hyman hasn't been great at playmaking either. Arvid has been and last few games finally somebody other than Drai is doing some feeding.

Even Skinner is struggling right now.

Something I look for in players, in a game is "does that shot or stuff on net even have a chance" Difference between finishing and shooting to score vs just getting puck on net. We have a lot of guys just doing the latter and hoping nobody notices.

Team shooting has definitely been off across the board. It's like they either find it all at the same time, or can't hit anything all at the same time.

This season we seem to basically be shooting between the two extremes of missing the net trying to pick corners or cresting it in an attempt to just get it on goal. They'll find the correct middle ground eventually, but in the mean time it can be quite frustrating to watch.