Post-Game Talk: Oilers lose Duck Hunt

Kapanen and Janmark have a bit more bite to their game and can PK. Kapanen seems to be snakebitten but has a lot of offensive flair.
Like I said all have their flaws and none of them are legit top 6 forwards.

I don’t think anyone thinks they are top 6 forwards. But are they even bottom 6 forwards? Lol

I used to think Janmark was a perfect bottom 6 player. But I don’t know what he is this year.

Kapanen just kinda a mixed bag. Some good and some bad.
 
Jones is a big guy with skill who can make big hits, but he doesn't really fight. He's like Ben Eager without the fighting ability. He also doesn't penalty kill, so it's really hard to see him in a meaningful role on this team.
He doesn't fight? haha. It just gets worse. I didn't know much about him but just assumed somebody we specifically went out and got who was just supposed to be a grease player would toss fists once in awhile. Like why on Earth did we even get him?
 
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Getting back to the game and some travails that the Ducks are gonna have going on for a long time.

They are worse defensively, far worse, than even the HOPE era Oilers and particularly their forwards are. What a hot mess. Starts with Zegras who is a random generator. Has no apparent care in the world what happens on plays and could go sideways. In own zone he's about as bad at getting pucks out as its possible to be in this league. With any less offense you'd just say sorry kid you're a bust. We can't have you on the ice. His zone out attempts are an absolute joke. Comedy stuff. Nor does he have the strength to work puck battles. If a puck needs to get out he'll lose that battle 9/10X. He's a joke.

But Terry, oh my god. He's coach killing stuff. There he is with 20secs left in a one goal game with puck downlow in Oilers end. All he has to do is find a way to eat puck, to keep it downlow. The guy is so f***ing dumb he attempts a pass back to the point thats covered (why would he do that) and he setups an Oilers last Killshot rush and we almost score. This isn't failing the test, its getting a negative mark on the test.

This is the quandary with the Ducks young star forwards. They have some talent, yes, they have 2 bit brains and I don't know they even care about anything other than personal pts.

Terry made the dumbest play I've seen all season. Congrats.

I know I'm hard on players, or can be, but jebus I'd be swearing at Terry for a week if he was an Oiler. I wouldn't ever have Zegras in the lineup. I don't even care about his offense.

I like a lot of their young forwards and some of their young dman. I think Carlsson and Lacombe will be studs. Gaunthier looks good too. But considering how great their goaltending metrics are and how far below the wildcard they are (considering that Vancouver, Calgary, Utah are nothing special), it could be a long climb for them.
 
I don’t think anyone thinks they are top 6 forwards. But are they even bottom 6 forwards? Lol

I used to think Janmark was a perfect bottom 6 player. But I don’t know what he is this year.

Kapanen just kinda a mixed bag. Some good and some bad.

Kapanen is interesting because he could play a great game only to throw it away with one instance of stupidity. Last night was the perfect example, I thought he was really strong until the very moment he decided to throw it away instead of shoot which lead to the winner. If he just shoots that puck it might have gone in and we are having a totally different conversation today.

I was actually saying to my friend I was watching with that I was starting to think it would make sense to try and get him in the playoff lineup in the bottom 6. Shortly thereafter he provided me a quick reminder why he's waiver fodder. Tons of talent, zero brains, doesn't grasp the concept of puck management and we have too many of those guys as it is.
 
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Kapenen, Jones and Kulak were all -3 last night. That's particularly crazy when you consider that Kapanen and Jones were on for the least ice time of any Oilers forwards (11:53 and 8:53, respectively) and still managed to be on the ice for every single goal against.

Kapanen is now -16 in 52 games with the Oilers, Jones is -8 in only 14 games, and Kulak is -10 on the season and -6 in his last 5 games. All three are the worst on the team (I'm not counting Frederic since his numbers are pretty much him as a Bruin).

I have a bit more patience for Kulak because he's been great for parts of this season, and it feels like part of his challenges have to do with linemates. As for Jones and particularly Kapanen, I think those guys need to sit.

Jones might the worst defensive player I've seen since POS. Just continually misses reads and who to pick up. Mix in the fact Kapanen isn't a true centre and Perry skates as fast as an ice berg and it's a recipe for disaster.


Much like Janmark, Kapanen only works at centre if you can give him a defensively responsible winger to play with, so they can treat it like a PK role. I've liked him on the Podz-Kapanen-Perry or Skinner-Janmark-Kapanen lines, but he's no where near good enough to cover for a defensive liability without support.
 
Philp's back up, so they'll at least have 3 true centres in the line up again. Wow, we're dealing with low bars here.
Only good news is they're more or less locked into the 3 seed, so these games don't matter.

Still, I really dislike that injuries excuse. Just LTIR McDavid or Ekholm and free up the cap so you don't have to run 17 skaters and can actually generate some competition for roles going into the playoffs.

That leads into my next note on Knob and how he is running his bench. Guys are locked into preordained roles, and good or poor performances just don't matter. It leaves a nasty taste in my mouth that Bouchard is coasting on defence during a rookie's first start, directly leading to the first two GA, plus I'd give him a decent bit of blame on the 3rd one also. (Yes, it's Kapanen's turnover in the slot, but he was the high guy and had zero reason to abandon the point after Kulak had already pinched).

He's one of their leaders and go-to players, and he's setting the tone that it's okay to coast and continually lose focus.
I think Kapanens over after that play uphigh leading to the breakaway and the winning goal. That play can't happen to a guy that hasn't scored in months. He can't be beat on that play last man back. If anything take the penalty, haul him down, ducks have a shit PP anyway. We probably get more chances to score on Ducks PP. But to lose puck there, get worked clean, and the guy gets a breakaway and scores. Its all on Kapanen.

I wanted this player to work but its done. This sealed it.
 
Unfortunately I can sure understand. The Oilers are not an entertaining team right now, and thats fair because the best players in the world are out of lineup. Still we'd like to be seeing something and right now its really off. On Saturday I did a rare thing in turning the game off. Its end of first period and I just said to myself I'm done. I'm not spending time watching this. Knew where it was headed. This sort of thing rarely occurs for me. There was just no value to me in watching the Oilers in this game, even against LA which has been our NHL playoff rival more than any other team.

I suspect I feel differently once playoffs start but I'm less excited about that then I have been for years. My right of spring is outdoors now, and thats increased through the years. So that I'd rather be outside enjoying an evening then watching games that occupy almost all of June. Last playoffs as wonderful as it was, it also interfered with other things I like to do like camping. tbh I was kind of resenting at times the NHL dragging the season and playoffs on so long. The first cup the Oilers ever won was something like May 20th. PLayoffs over, cup won. Last year the playoffs going off the top of my head lasted until June 24th. Thats nuts and I won't repeat losing all that time. Although this year I don't think I even have to.

Yeah, I'm still gonna cheer hard for the team in the post season, but I don't see us getting out of the 1st or 2nd round. It's just been a meh kind of season overall. Add in the officiating being worse with all those annoying betting ads etc, it makes me lose interest rather quickly.
He doesn't fight? haha. It just gets worse. I didn't know much about him but just assumed somebody we specifically went out and got who was just supposed to be a grease player would toss fists once in awhile. Like why on Earth did we even get him?

That's why it didn't make any sense to acquire him. At least for the Henrique+Carrick trade last year, Carrick was at least fine with dropping the gloves. Max Jones? Only memorable play I've seen of him is rushing back to backcheck an opponent scoring chance. Other than that, he's been awful.

Max Jones 14GP:
47.29 CF%
40.71 SF%
10.00 GF% ( 1 GF 9 GA)
36.17 SCF%
32.35 HDCF%
20.00 HDGF% (1 GF 4 GA)

He's been the definition of putrid.
 
I like a lot of their young forwards and some of their young dman. I think Carlsson and Lacombe will be studs. Gaunthier looks good too. But considering how great their goaltending metrics are and how far below the wildcard they are (considering that Vancouver, Calgary, Utah are nothing special), it could be a long climb for them.
Indeed their D and G are saving their bacon time and again. Lifejackets all over. But the forwards like Zegras and Terry keep sinking the ship. You can't make that play Terry did as an NHL player and he's been in the league several years now. I could here the screaming from the Ducks bench. Like I said Terry made the single worst situational play I've seen all season, any team. He should be eating tar and feathers after that one. Would like to see his face if that play had cost the team the game and it was so close to it.

Gauthier I liked.
 
Yeah, I'm still gonna cheer hard for the team in the post season, but I don't see us getting out of the 1st or 2nd round. It's just been a meh kind of season overall. Add in the officiating being worse with all those annoying betting ads etc, it makes me lose interest rather quickly.


That's why it didn't make any sense to acquire him. At least for the Henrique+Carrick trade last year, Carrick was at least fine with dropping the gloves. Max Jones? Only memorable play I've seen of him is rushing back to backcheck an opponent scoring chance. Other than that, he's been awful.

Max Jones 14GP:
47.29 CF%
40.71 SF%
10.00 GF% ( 1 GF 9 GA)
36.17 SCF%
32.35 HDCF%
20.00 HDGF% (1 GF 4 GA)

He's been the definition of putrid.
Max Jones attended class once. Got in his seat in the last row and the teacher fell asleep.
 
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He doesn't fight? haha. It just gets worse. I didn't know much about him but just assumed somebody we specifically went out and got who was just supposed to be a grease player would toss fists once in awhile. Like why on Earth did we even get him?
Well, he does technically have fights under his belt, but he really can't fight.
 
Well, he does technically have fights under his belt, but he really can't fight.
Maybe a future in broadcasting. Even dopes like Debrusk get on the air. Whatever they're paying this guy its to much.

Debrusk last night: Every player can get good at their game if they just put in the work. Do the work and it comes together and you can do it."

Me: "Why didn't you do it then"

I was laughing a bit. There wasn't one aspect of anything that Debrusk was good at.
 
I'm fairly confident that the expectation for Max Jones was to be an AHL tweener, not a full-time NHLer, at the time of the trade. There was no spot for him on the roster when they acquired him, so I think he was just an afterthought to add a little bit of depth. It's just been bad luck that the Oilers haven't been able to get healthy since the trade.

If you look at the current depth chart, Jones would be like 4 guys away from getting in the lineup with a fully healthy team.
 
I think Kapanens over after that play uphigh leading to the breakaway and the winning goal. That play can't happen to a guy that hasn't scored in months. He can't be beat on that play last man back. If anything take the penalty, haul him down, ducks have a shit PP anyway. We probably get more chances to score on Ducks PP. But to lose puck there, get worked clean, and the guy gets a breakaway and scores. Its all on Kapanen.

I wanted this player to work but its done. This sealed it.

Rewatching it I'm sorry, but no.

1744141409625.png


Kulak is just off a board battle, and they have 4 deep and no one has any speed coming back. Bouchard can not active here. Instead he skates straight down into the slot.

The 5th Duck is also already behind Bouchard and outside the zone to the right of the shot above (one more reason not to activate). Him crashing down is what actually strips Kapanan of the puck.

1744141875986.png


Kapanen needs to get rid of the puck faster, But Bouchard's read is just needlessly risky and dumb.
If he stays high, that 5th Duck likely gravitates towards him instead of attacking Kapanen, and Kap either gets a shot off with two Oilers in front of the net, or still ends up tied up by the defender, but with the Oil in a far better structure to defend and no chance at a jailbreak.
 
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Rewatching it I'm sorry, but no.

View attachment 1009173

Kulak is just off a board battle, and they have 4 deep and no one has any speed coming back. Bouchard can not active here. Instead he skates straight down into the slot.

The 5th Duck is also already behind Bouchard and outside the zone to the right of the shot above (one more reason not to activate). Him crashing down is what actually strips Kapanan of the puck.

View attachment 1009181

Kapanen needs to get rid of the puck faster, But Bouchard's read is just needlessly risky and dumb.
If he stays high, that 5th Duck likely gravitates towards him instead of attacking Kapanen, and Kap either gets a shot off with two Oilers in front of the net, or still ends up tied up by the defender, but with the Oil in a far better structure to defend and no chance at a jailbreak.
Its fair. But understand I've been a Kapanen supporter, I would think to a fault. Just because other players have made errors doesn't mean you have to make the biggest one. The other players as well, and I have to point this out, their NHL careers are not in jeopardy. Kapanens certainly is. This is the NHL end of line for him and theres been enough sample to say deservedly. I say that mostly because he doesn't produce a drop.

Thing is Booch is one of our most dangerous players and produces tons for this team. he was bad last night, but theres value in him going low, and team affords that because so many of these dolt forwards we have they can't produce a drop. So that it falls on our D to do the defending and generate the offense. A miserable task at times.

This is the same game in which Darnell Nurse takes the puck from behind his own net and just proceeds to skate by EVERY duck and get a jam play at net and almost score. As if to demonstate why none of our forwards are generating much. he laughed how easy it was and it was for our D who were generating everything we had. What do our forwards actually do?
 
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Rewatching it I'm sorry, but no.

View attachment 1009173

Kulak is just off a board battle, and they have 4 deep and no one has any speed coming back. Bouchard can not active here. Instead he skates straight down into the slot.

The 5th Duck is also already behind Bouchard and outside the zone to the right of the shot above (one more reason not to activate). Him crashing down is what actually strips Kapanan of the puck.

View attachment 1009181

Kapanen needs to get rid of the puck faster, But Bouchard's read is just needlessly risky and dumb.
If he stays high, that 5th Duck likely gravitates towards him instead of attacking Kapanen, and Kap either gets a shot off with two Oilers in front of the net, or still ends up tied up by the defender, but with the Oil in a far better structure to defend and no chance at a jailbreak.

Although nothing you said is wrong, the first frame is the most damning. If he just shoots when he should have, everything else doesn't matter. Low quick shot goes on net and it's either in or there for a tap in for the free man in front.
 
Its fair. But understand I've been a Kapanen supporter, I would think to a fault. Just because other players have made errors doesn't mean you have to make the biggest one. The other players as well, and I have to point this out, their NHL careers are not in jeopardy. Kapanens certainly is. This is the NHL end of line for him and theres been enough sample to say deservedly. I say that mostly because he doesn't produce a drop.

Thing is Booch is one of our most dangerous players and produces tons for this team. he was bad last night, but theres value in him going low, and team affords that because so many of these dolt forwards we have they can't produce a drop. So that it falls on our D to do the defending and generate the offense. A miserable task at times.

Yeah Kapanen's hanging on by a tread, but at the end of the day he's a tweener.

My bigger point is with Bouchard. He's one of this team's go-to players, and with so many other guys out they're desperately searching for a leader to step up and set the tone.
They've got an easy point to rally around with Rodrigue getting his 1st start, but Bouchard is out there looking like he's taking hits from a bong between shifts.

Again, it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.
 
Yeah Kapanen's hanging on by a tread, but at the end of the day he's a tweener.

My bigger point is with Bouchard. He's one of this team's go-to players, and with so many other guys out they're desperately searching for a leader to step up and set the tone.
They've got an easy point to rally around with Rodrigue getting his 1st start, but Bouchard is out there looking like he's taking hits from a bong between shifts.

Again, it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.
It was just a real bad night for Booch. Best to flush those. Theres others where he's making stupendously good plays and he was even effective last night in his shots to net. He was out of sorts though and got beat wide 2-3X. Maybe he's hurt too? he looked slower last night than usual.

Just another thing because I know our D get eaten alive here for their point work but the Oilers have so little going on offensively that every team in the league is reading our pass back to the point stuff. Some of these are real hot passes, just saying, and from a bunch of forwards, I can name names, that just take the easy out instead of generating or working one on ones or trying to bust opponent coverage, like they can.

We have a best forward on ice last night that once again didn't distinguish himself and take control. Thy name is Ryan Nugent Hopkins. Hyman as well has fallen into a creative pit. He's like a rod hockey player now and his only play is stuff net, stuff net, pucks, net...;)
 
One thing that would probably help getting back there is a 94% PK that had nothing to do with 97 and 29 whatsoever.
This was a critical component of a breakthrough deep Cup run. It's also a result that is highly, highly non-repeatable. As great as the historic offensive production was, this team quite likely doesn't get to a Cup Final Game 7 without this massive outlier in critical situational play goal suppression work.

The challenge right now is to balance belief in a reset, healthy veteran team with two super elite that have stared down adversity before both in regular season and playoff steeled against a team that's not healthy for first time in the stretch drive. The hope rests in their past performance and belief these past performances can drive success.

Which bumps up against current team and individual regression results (across the past three season results) pretty much across the board with goals scored, shooting %, power play, penalty kill (though this season is slightly statistically better than 22-23's 76.98%), starting goaltender's worst statistical results that have regressed each year for past three years. This year's significantly changed roster is hasn't gelled as expected and core players outside of Draisaitl have regressed.

It's a test of faith. A heart versus head scenario. Everyone is a different point in a Continuum between No Hope and Cup Championship Belief. How deeply does one believe in McJesus ... well less the big man and moreso the apostles assembled with this year's roster with singular goal to win 1 more game this year. ;) Lots of scar tissue being a fan of this team...

The Hope Continuum
________________________________________________________________________________________

DespairBelief


EDIT: Would be fun to see posters post where they are on the Hope Continuum.
 
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This was a critical component of a breakthrough deep Cup run. It's also a result that is highly, highly non-repeatable. As great as the historic offensive production was, this team quite likely doesn't get to a Cup Final Game 7 without this massive outlier in critical situational play goal suppression work.

The challenge right now is to balance belief in a reset, healthy veteran team with two super elite that have stared down adversity before both in regular season and playoff steeled against a team that's not healthy for first time in the stretch drive. The hope rests in their past performance and belief these past performances can drive success.

Which bumps up against current team and individual regression results (across the past three season results) pretty much across the board with goals scored, shooting %, power play, penalty kill (though this season is slightly statistically better than 22-23's 76.98%), starting goaltender's worst statistical results that have regressed each year for past three years. This year's significantly changed roster is hasn't gelled as expected and core players outside of Draisaitl have regressed.

It's a test of faith. A heart versus head scenario. Everyone is a different point in a Continuum between No Hope and Cup Championship Belief. How deeply does one believe in McJesus ... well less the big man and moreso the apostles assembled with this year's roster with singular goal to win 1 more game this year. ;) Lots of scar tissue being a fan of this team...

The Hope Continuum
________________________________________________________________________________________

Despair HereBelief


EDIT: Would be fun to see posters post where they are on the Hope Continuum.
Bolded is where I'm at.
 
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The Hope Continuum
________________________________________________________________________________________

DespairK1984Belief


EDIT: Would be fun to see posters post where they are on the Hope Continuum.

I'm in the middle, I truly think the playoffs could go anywhere in between getting swept in the first round and winning the Stanley Cup.

So many parts of this team swing wildly between being top of class and worst in class that enough things randomly going in the top of class direction could put us on top. Even last year, the PK got better when Knoblauch came in, but didn't swing to an elite of the elite level until very late in the year.

The PK is a great example again this year actually. Has swung from being terrible to start, to really good for a stretch, to terrible again, now back to kind of mediocre. Come Game 1 the PK could be the worst or the best. We won't know until it happens, and the outcome of it could alone be the difference between a quick 1st round exit and a deep run.
 
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I've never used it, and I never will.

If someone is willing to put their opinion out there then i will do them courteousy of reading it, but that doesn't mean if it's a shitty opinion it doesn't deserve to be called out.

The constant negativity from some gets very old, but it's their opinion, and they have a right to it, just like I have the right to push back against that negativity.

Kind of defeats the purpose of a message board if you just block everyone you don't agree with. That's just moving into an echo chamber, which I have no desire to be in.

Personally I don’t need to see the same opinion from the same person(s) repeated dozens of times per day ad nauseam. Say it once or twice - fine. Derail every single thread with the same opinion posted a bazillion times every day - that’s a block.

That’s not a message board. That’s one or two guys shouting above everyone else and that’s why God made the block button.
 
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I'm fairly confident that the expectation for Max Jones was to be an AHL tweener, not a full-time NHLer, at the time of the trade. There was no spot for him on the roster when they acquired him, so I think he was just an afterthought to add a little bit of depth. It's just been bad luck that the Oilers haven't been able to get healthy since the trade.

If you look at the current depth chart, Jones would be like 4 guys away from getting in the lineup with a fully healthy team.
He was clearly a throw in.
 

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