Oilers hire Stan Bowman as GM & EVP of Hockey Ops

K1984

Registered User
Feb 7, 2008
14,859
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If this had come out right when it happened, Chevy never gets hired anywhere as a GM. Bowman ends up as a coattail riding 1 year GM and probably that's the end for him as a GM too.

But in Chevys case, in the report it seems he was brought into that meeting, but it was Bowman who had additional info, such as the 20 minute call from Gary and the direct follow up conversations with the confidant letting him know that the victim was in a bad state. AFAIK Cheveldayoff was not privy to any of that, and he had far less power in the league.

And for all the "performative" talk ... If we accept that Bowman did everything right, then it follows that his volunteer work, claims that he'd do better in a similar situation going forward, etc. would be entirely performative, no? It's all for show. So obviously being performative doesn't actually bother Bowman defenders.

You think Kennedy or Beach would have given the same okay if Bowman had said "I did nothing wrong, I was scapegoated, this was all just fake outrage. Next time I'll handle it the exact same way because that's what I'm supposed to do. But in my work with them I taught Beach and Kennedy a thing or two about proper chain of command, which is what's really important here."

If you truly believe Bowman is blameless, then you cannot also hold any position other than his recent enlightenment must be insincere performative BS.

"The guy that I like is fine because he's the guy I like, but the other guy that I don't like that was in the same meeting that did the same thing (allowed his superior to handle it and stepped away) is bad because he's the guy I don't like."

It did come out after, so I don't know how its possible that "Chevy" wouldn't have had a job ever again if it came out right away, but its all ok now because time passed. Ok for "Chevy," but not the other guy that you don't like. Consideration of context allowed for "Chevy" but not for Bowman.

Always a way to explain away the similar sins of the person you prefer, while always finding a way to discredit anything the guy you don't like did to try to atone.
 
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FiveTacos

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Oct 2, 2017
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"The guy that I like is fine because he's the guy I like, but the other guy that I don't like that was in the same meeting that did the same thing (allowed his superior to handle it and stepped away) is bad because he's the guy I don't like."

It did come out after, so I don't know how its possible that "Chevy" wouldn't have had a job ever again if it came out right away, but its all ok now because time passed. Ok for "Chevy," but not the other guy that you don't like. Consideration of context allowed for "Chevy" but not for Bowman.

Always a way to explain away the similar sins of the person you prefer, while always finding a way to discredit anything the guy you don't like did to try to atone.

I don't like either guy. I wish the Hawks had been proactive and dealt with this properly, but given that they didn't my second choice if there were any justice would have been to have had it come out right away so all the execs who knew and did nothing would have suffered consequences for not acting, as opposed to winning a bunch of Cups, and in Cheveldayoff's case parlaying that into a GM gig. And most importantly spared the subsequent victims a lifetime of trauma.

All those guys got the hockey exec equivalent of a jackpot. I don't feel a lick of sympathy for any of them.

Do I think either guy should be banned from working in the NHL ever again? No. Did either show the kind of leadership that you want from a GM? No. Do I think they both benefited greatly from the story not coming out? Yes, as Bowman got to sit 10 extra years in a GM chair, win accolades and Cups, and become an Olympic GM, so let's not make it out like he took a big hit. Oh boo hoo, he had to sit out 3 years (when he was probably on the verge of losing his job for hockey reasons anyway) and then pop right back into a Cup finalist GM chair. It ultimately worked out great for him in the long run, wouldn't you say?

And for the record, if it had been up to me Cheveldayoff would have at least received a year off, minimum, and if I were running a team that would not be someone I'd want back afterward anyway. But if the argument is that Bowman is not as culpable as the President, then the same should apply to the assistant GM being less culpable than the GM. Just like I don't think the confidant who had zero executive power should have any blame at all, when he talked to Bowman about how bad things were he probably thought (like most reasonable people might) that the GM would make sure it was dealt with. He didn't go to the assistant GM because that's not the guy who's supposed to be able to do much about it.

The fact that you're down to whataboutism as a defense doesn't exactly suggest that it's truly all that defensible.
 

K1984

Registered User
Feb 7, 2008
14,859
15,943
I don't like either guy. I wish the Hawks had been proactive and dealt with this properly, but given that they didn't my second choice if there were any justice would have been to have had it come out right away so all the execs who knew and did nothing would have suffered consequences for not acting, as opposed to winning a bunch of Cups, and in Cheveldayoff's case parlaying that into a GM gig. And most importantly spared the subsequent victims a lifetime of trauma.

All those guys got the hockey exec equivalent of a jackpot. I don't feel a lick of sympathy for any of them.

Do I think either guy should be banned from working in the NHL ever again? No. Did either show the kind of leadership that you want from a GM? No. Do I think they both benefited greatly from the story not coming out? Yes, as Bowman got to sit 10 extra years in a GM chair, win accolades and Cups, and become an Olympic GM, so let's not make it out like he took a big hit. Oh boo hoo, he had to sit out 3 years (when he was probably on the verge of losing his job for hockey reasons anyway) and then pop right back into a Cup finalist GM chair. It ultimately worked out great for him in the long run, wouldn't you say?

And for the record, if it had been up to me Cheveldayoff would have at least received a year off, minimum, and if I were running a team that would not be someone I'd want back afterward anyway. But if the argument is that Bowman is not as culpable as the President, then the same should apply to the assistant GM being less culpable than the GM. Just like I don't think the confidant who had zero executive power should have any blame at all, when he talked to Bowman about how bad things were he probably thought (like most reasonable people might) that the GM would make sure it was dealt with. He didn't go to the assistant GM because that's not the guy who's supposed to be able to do much about it.

The fact that you're down to whataboutism as a defense doesn't exactly suggest that it's truly all that defensible.

Take a breath, at no point in this thread have I "defended" anything or anyone. You need to not put words in people's mouth.

Simply responding to the Jets fan that waxed poetic about how morally unacceptable the Oilers are in contrast to his saintly Jets and how laughably hypocritical and ignorant that take is.
 

John Garretts KD

Registered User
Aug 4, 2024
54
145
Read a few posts defending Bowman and excusing his involvement in covering up sexual assault. Stay classy, Edmonton fans. That’s enough for me

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WATTAGE4451

Registered User
Jan 4, 2018
2,000
1,538
McDonagh is the one 99% to blame IMO. The matter was reported to him, the minute that happened it was his responsibility and on top of that he told the hockey staff exactly that, he would take over the issue and handle it.

He sat on his hands and then did nothing for several weeks.
While not involved in hockey anymore and low on totem pole overall. Mental skills coach jim gary shares a lot of blame as well if not more. Both for the fact as his profession as a licensened clinical practical cpunselor, he should ha e more training on handling these situations and been more involved in talking to hr and advising mcdonough, and for the fact that both beech and all the other john does alluded to alot of unprofessional behavior by him and practically being the worst counselor in the world. Beech said he didnt tell the full extent of what happened cuz he felt gary was partially blaming him. Others stated that gary advised them that they put themselves in their situation. Gary also by his own admission regulalry used crude juvenile sexual humour because he thought it would helped establish a cpnnection with male hockey players- and wpuld be effective in forming bond with beech- except that its a terrible idea to use sexual humlur with a person trying to tell you they were sexually abused.. another john doe showed that gary would email them homophobic jokes and pornographic pictures.

Keep in mind that none of the players actually probably talked to mcdpnough bowman and others and all talked through jim gary who then reported to them, and more of the problems might have been with him than most people realize. Disgusting excuse of a counselor
 

Zine

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
12,232
2,190
Bill Cosby is back out performing stand up for the record, Harvey Weinstein is about to get released from prison. "cancel culture" is thriving I guess

I don't know if "cancel culture" is thriving or not, but you highlighted the problem with it. It's virtue signaling based on opportunity. Punishment predicated on movable boundaries. Selective outrage often based on politics.
 

Johnny Rifle

Pittsburgh Penguins
Apr 7, 2018
762
713
Hampton, VA
Regarding Stan Bowman’s guilt or innocence, it’s not uncommon to have a guilty conscience despite having little actual guilt in what happened.

Second guessing your own actions is not an admission of guilt. We certainly can play Monday Morning Quarterback and criticize Bowman for what he could or should have done, but his misplaced trust in the ownership and team president is not the same thing as actively covering up a crime.
 

FiveTacos

Registered User
Oct 2, 2017
870
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The Twilight Zone
Regarding Stan Bowman’s guilt or innocence, it’s not uncommon to have a guilty conscience despite having little actual guilt in what happened.

So is it your position that he has nothing to feel guilty about? That he was unfairly suspended, that if it happens again he should do exactly what he did before?

Second guessing your own actions is not an admission of guilt. We certainly can play Monday Morning Quarterback and criticize Bowman for what he could or should have done, but his misplaced trust in the ownership and team president is not the same thing as actively covering up a crime.

No it's not the same, but that's assuming that that is truly what the situation was. Reading the Jenner report pretty much everyone has a slightly different recollection of that meeting. If you want to believe Bowman's version to sleep better about the hiring, so be it, but also we should acknowledge that his claim that McDonough said he'd handle it was not substantiated by anyone else at the meeting. The only thing we know for sure was that at minimum one accusation was discussed (and according to Cheveldayoff both accusers were in fact brought up).

My best reading from the report is that it was a room full of people going, "I don't want to talk about this or deal with it," and really being generally wishy washy about the whole thing. Not a single person stepped up and said, "this is serious, we have two players accusing this coach, we have to get to the bottom of this ASAP." They all treated it like an inconvenience.
 

TheNumber4

Registered User
Nov 11, 2011
43,802
54,703
So is it your position that he has nothing to feel guilty about? That he was unfairly suspended, that if it happens again he should do exactly what he did before?



No it's not the same, but that's assuming that that is truly what the situation was. Reading the Jenner report pretty much everyone has a slightly different recollection of that meeting. If you want to believe Bowman's version to sleep better about the hiring, so be it, but also we should acknowledge that his claim that McDonough said he'd handle it was not substantiated by anyone else at the meeting. The only thing we know for sure was that at minimum one accusation was discussed (and according to Cheveldayoff both accusers were in fact brought up).

My best reading from the report is that it was a room full of people going, "I don't want to talk about this or deal with it," and really being generally wishy washy about the whole thing. Not a single person stepped up and said, "this is serious, we have two players accusing this coach, we have to get to the bottom of this ASAP." They all treated it like an inconvenience.
It wasn’t denied my McDonagh or the HR dept that McDonagh brought the issue to. So essentially Bowman said McDonagh would handle it, and 3 weeks later he did exactly that bringing the case to HR dept where Aldrich was then Fired. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that what Bowman said had happened in that meeting actually happened cause you know, it happened.
 

T REX

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
12,133
9,743
When did it become "virtue signaling" to call a POS a POS?

Just curious...when that became a faux pas instead of sticking up for those who can't stick up for themselves?

Weird stuff.
 

Jumptheshark

Rebooting myself
Oct 12, 2003
100,365
14,377
Somewhere on Uranus
Seconded. Definitely was not happy with the hire
some fan bases our lumping all oiler fans into one pot. I created a thread on the oiler board the day the rumours started and 75% of the posters hated kit and most still do. While he broke no laws what he did was disgusting. All oiler fans agree upon that but none oiler fans just like shitting on the oilers and their fans because
 

nucks88

Registered User
Jan 8, 2012
5,003
3,124
The Left Coast
some fan bases our lumping all oiler fans into one pot. I created a thread on the oiler board the day the rumours started and 75% of the posters hated kit and most still do. While he broke no laws what he did was disgusting. All oiler fans agree upon that but none oiler fans just like shitting on the oilers and their fans because
Delusion sprinkled with copium and a side order of persecution complex….
 

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