News Article: Oilers GM: Broberg, Holloway offer sheets 'way above' their performance

[Frenzy31]

The fact that you think the "Backes" core could have ever won anything really negates any of your other opinions. No matter how much we loved them they were bad.

They did make it to the Western Conference Finals. They weren't bad and not getting far in the playoffs cost Hitch his job. Expectations were there for a reason.

I think it is very, very tough to get to the Finals - so many factors, like health, goal tending - LUCK....

 

[SirPaste]

Its 7 and 8 years respectively until Stutzle and Sanderson hit UFA. There is no other elite talent in Ottawa. Tkachuk is not elite. He's a great 1st liner but he is Kyrou/Buchnevich level. He is less than point per game winger who's not great defensively.

Buch wasnt Buch level either when we acquired him,

 

[Xerloris]

They did make it to the Western Conference Finals. They weren't bad and not getting far in the playoffs cost Hitch his job. Expectations were there for a reason.

I think it is very, very tough to get to the Finals - so many factors, like health, goal tending - LUCK....

They only made it to the WCF once the core was broken up by trading Oshie.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Not to speak for Celtic, but I think signing Buchnevich was the mistake. It helps us stay competitive rather than bottom out. And by the time we are playoff competitive, he will be nearing the downside of his career.

I figured you weren't referring to me. I just think its interesting discussion/thought that this could be such a masterful move and yet might not be the right move. The downside is low, but the bigger picture course we are on to compete more quickly has a much higher downside if it fails.

Well if the GMs job is not to try and get better right now, it’s easy to be critical of almost all Armstrong’s recent moves. I get what you're saying, you'd have preferred a full tear down rebuild. But I don't see how you leave any room to appraise the GM next several moves by that measuring stick since they're all going to be calculated to get closer to being a contender.

To my view, he's doing a good job executing his plan. And I agree, we'll see whether that bears fruit. I also think we agree that the Blues will need to acquire some top pairing or top line talent in addition to the prospect pool. In my opinion, Armstrong has already demonstrated an ability to make moves like that. I don't think its outrageous to expect to be able to add veteran players to the homegrown mixture as we go along the next 4-5 years.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Well if the GMs job is not to try and get better right now, it’s easy to be critical of almost all Armstrong’s recent moves. I get what you're saying, you'd have preferred a full tear down rebuild. But I don't see how you leave any room to appraise the GM next several moves by that measuring stick since they're all going to be calculated to get closer to being a contender.

To my view, he's doing a good job executing his plan. And I agree, we'll see whether that bears fruit. I also think we agree that the Blues will need to acquire some top pairing or top line talent in addition to the prospect pool. In my opinion, Armstrong has already demonstrated an ability to make moves like that. I don't think its outrageous to expect to be able to add veteran players to the homegrown mixture as we go along the next 4-5 years.

DA was able to get Schenn when he was only 26 y/o. Same for Buch @ 26 y/o. He will add when it's time to add. If everything goes mostly to plan with our prospects coming up and the ascension of the club again, then STL will become a very attractive destination for top talent.

 

[BlueSeal]

I've been on a rollercoaster for the last several years about Army and I've come to a decision and a fixed point of view:

Army knows what he's doing.

He's not omnipotent, he can't read minds or any of that, but he does try to make the best decisions that he can. We won a Cup because of that. We're not going to blow up the team no matter what, that's incredibly dangerous for a small market team like the Blues to be playing with unless absolutely necessary, no matter who the owner is. So no, it's not going to happen.

In 1-3 years we'll be back and ready to really go back after the Cup. The coming days are far brighter than anyone realizes.

 

[Majorityof1]

Well if the GMs job is not to try and get better right now, it’s easy to be critical of almost all Armstrong’s recent moves. I get what you're saying, you'd have preferred a full tear down rebuild. But I don't see how you leave any room to appraise the GM next several moves by that measuring stick since they're all going to be calculated to get closer to being a contender.

To my view, he's doing a good job executing his plan. And I agree, we'll see whether that bears fruit. I also think we agree that the Blues will need to acquire some top pairing or top line talent in addition to the prospect pool. In my opinion, Armstrong has already demonstrated an ability to make moves like that. I don't think its outrageous to expect to be able to add veteran players to the homegrown mixture as we go along the next 4-5 years.

I agree he is doing a good job of executing his plan. I have said as much. I called the offer sheets masterfully executed. But if he fails because of the big decision, if his plan was never possible to execute and if his decision to pursue that plan leaves us wallowing in mediocrity, then it doesn't matter how well he executed the individual steps. That's business. It doesn't matter how well you execute the business plan, if the business plan sucks and the company loses money.

 

[Celtic Note]

The fact that you think the "Backes" core could have ever won anything really negates any of your other opinions. No matter how much we loved them they were bad.

So we can in one breath say he can trade for elite talent to make this core competitive, but we cannot make the same claim for that core?

 

[Xerloris]

So we can in one breath say he can trade for elite talent to make this core competitive, but we cannot make the same claim for that core?

You're saying that he was fascinated with hockey trades and that hurt the Backes core, yet that's all he still does. Hockey trades is what he does, the biggest trade he has pulled off was ROR and guess what? That was still a hockey trade. Offer sheeting some guys isn't a trade and it took an extremely specific scenario for it to work out, not something you can just do any given summer. You need to face it that the Backes core was the problem. They were all amazing complimentary players but not who you need to build around.

 

[BlueSeal]

So we can in one breath say he can trade for elite talent to make this core competitive, but we cannot make the same claim for that core?

Yes, because he traded pieces of that core and that ended up with us winning the Cup.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

They only made it to the WCF once the core was broken up by trading Oshie.

Wasn’t that Fabbri’s rookie season?

 

[BlueDream]

Wasn’t that Fabbri’s rookie season?

Yes. And Edmundson’s and Parayko’s. Fun rookie class that year.

 

[Celtic Note]

You're saying that he was fascinated with hockey trades and that hurt the Backes core, yet that's all he still does. Hockey trades is what he does, the biggest trade he has pulled off was ROR and guess what? That was still a hockey trade. Offer sheeting some guys isn't a trade and it took an extremely specific scenario for it to work out, not something you can just do any given summer. You need to face it that the Backes core was the problem. They were all amazing complimentary players but not who you need to build around.

So giving up a top prospect, a first and a second pick plus cap relief in Berglund and Sobotka was a hockey trade?

The three best assets in that trade were a prospect and picks.

 

[Xerloris]

So giving up a top prospect, a first and a second pick plus cap relief in Berglund and Sobotka was a hockey trade?

The three best assets in that trade were a prospect and picks.

Ignore the cap dumps and al it was was a prospect and 2 picks. Ya, that sounds like a hockey trade to me. We didn't gut the team or prospect pool to land a superstar.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Yes. And Edmundson’s and Parayko’s. Fun rookie class that year.

I remember Fabbri’s look of crushing disappointment as they stepped off the ice. Backes was pissed, but, then again, Backes was pretty much always pissed.

 

[Celtic Note]

Ignore the cap dumps and al it was was a prospect and 2 picks. Ya, that sounds like a hockey trade to me. We didn't gut the team or prospect pool to land a superstar.

Hockey trades, per Army, are roster player swaps, ala Oshie for Brouwer. I am not sure where your belief that picks and prospects, as the primary assets, constitute a hockey trade comes from, but it’s clearly off-base.

 

[Xerloris]

Hockey trades, per Army, are roster player swaps, ala Oshie for Brouwer. I am not sure where your belief that picks and prospects, as the primary assets, constitute a hockey trade comes from, but it’s clearly off-base.

Gonna have to have you cite your source on the "per Army" comment because that's not what I recall him saying.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Gonna have to have you cite your source on the "per Army" comment because that's not what I recall him saying.

It is Armstrong’s definition. I’ve heard him say as much multiple times.

 

[tfriede2]

It is Armstrong’s definition. I’ve heard him say as much multiple times.

So, this answer is from ChatGPT to the question of what is Doug Armstrong’s definition of a “hockey trade”:

“Doug Armstrong, the general manager of the St. Louis Blues, defines a "hockey trade" as a deal where both teams involved exchange players with the primary goal of improving their on-ice performance, rather than focusing on financial considerations or clearing salary cap space. In this type of trade, both teams are usually seeking to fill specific needs on their rosters, whether that’s skill, size, or positional depth, with an immediate impact on the teams' competitiveness in mind.

A "hockey trade" contrasts with trades that are driven by off-ice factors, such as salary cap relief or rebuilding efforts, where the motivation is more financial or long-term planning rather than immediate performance improvement.”

I think this certainly jives with your assertion.