Confirmed with Link: Oilers Do Not Match Broberg ($4.58M X2) & Holloway ($2.29M x 2) Offer Sheets | Oilers acquire STL 3rd '28 & Paul Fischer for Futures

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What Would You Do?


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    646
  • Poll closed .

Canovin

1% is the new 11.5%
Oct 27, 2010
19,097
10,468
780
How does it work if Kane goes on LTIR for 21 days or more?

Do we start accumulating cap space for the days he's out? Chop space we can use at the deadline?
I think if Kane goes on LTIR at the start of the season, we cannot accrue cap space. It would just be the Stone/Vegas way. If Kane comes back early, you only have 900k to work with.

Into the season he goes on for his surgery, we can accrue cap space and that could be 900k + the accrued cap space

Anymore details than that, someone else would know more than I do.
 

Whoshattenkirkshoes

Registered User
Aug 11, 2014
4,492
2,036
I think if Kane goes on LTIR at the start of the season, we cannot accrue cap space. It would just be the Stone/Vegas way. If Kane comes back early, you only have 900k to work with.

Into the season he goes on for his surgery, we can accrue cap space and that could be 900k + the accrued cap space

Anymore details than that, someone else would know more than I do.
So he needs to have surgery Mid season to get cap space? Meaning what? Surgery October 20th?

He won't be going on LTIR.

They're under the cap, so there's no reason to now.
Well he needs surgery so something doesn't make sense?
 

Whoshattenkirkshoes

Registered User
Aug 11, 2014
4,492
2,036
You only use LTIR if you're over the cap.

Their plan now is for him to have the surgery, go on regular IR and stay under the cap to accrue cap space.
So you are saying Kane surgery doesn't help the cap? That doesn't seem right, or am I missing something here

I know LTIR lets you go over in the offseason, but it's not only for if you are over???
 

CupofOil

Knob Flavored Coffey
Aug 20, 2009
48,281
44,642
NYC
The best response I can provide to you is to review my last few posts on how and why I arrived at that conclusion.
Sorry, I haven't been able to go through all the posts. Would you mind giving a synopsis as to why you think Broberg's development was botched?
 

McDNicks17

Moderator
Jul 1, 2010
42,318
32,000
Ontario
So you are saying Kane surgery doesn't help the cap? That doesn't seem right, or am I missing something here
It would if they choose to use LTIR, but that's not the plan. They're trying to stay under the cap with their aim on trade deadline adds.

Technically, they could get as close to the cap as they can, LTIR Kane and then have an extra $5.25M of LTIR to use, but you don't accrue cap space that way and have to clear all that salary when/if Kane returns during the season.
 
Last edited:

Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
26,463
21,738
Waterloo Ontario
I question how realistically possible it was to get these guys signed in season or get them signed for reasonable numbers in that small window between end of finals and free agency. And the big mistake in my mind is that once you had a feeling these guys might go to free agency looking for offer sheets what they should of done at that point is start shopping both players, either in sign and trades or just as rfa’s. Would have given yourself more options but also would have forced Armstrong and Ferris hand on speeding up the timeline on their plan.
In hindsight I feel the same way. Maybe they could have moved a little more aggressively on Holloway but it seems clear that the #1 priority was to give the team the best chance to win sooner than later. And by signing guys like Arvidsson and Skinner I think they did more to make that happen than would have been the case by over spending on Holloway and Broberg. And I say this as a guy who really likes Holloway and who feels that Broberg could well end up as an excellent defenseman. But Holloway can pretty easily be replaced in the short run given his role and I am not sure that the Oilers could wait around for Broberg to fully emerge if he was going to get paid over $4M.

I don't think there is a single poster on our board that likes what happened. I am certainly not one. But I am heartened by the moves they made to mitigate the loss. I think it is still possible that they actually come out of this stronger when it really matters. But time will tell.
 
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CupofOil

Knob Flavored Coffey
Aug 20, 2009
48,281
44,642
NYC
Imagine having 2-3 more Henrique/Ekholm tier players on this team, even just that RD we’ve been needing for so long.

Sounds like Bowman isn’t shy when it comes to spending 1sts so I hope he gets it done
Yes, but the additions need to be younger than those guys. I don't have much interest in the Oilers adding players in their 30s if they're trading prime assets to get them. I loved the Ekholm trade and like the Henrique addition and re-signing but they need some guys that are ascending or at least in prime years preferably that play with pace.
 

Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
37,497
18,432
I see that Armstrong is getting similar kudos that Tre got in the Summer Of Brad year where the Flames ended up imploding. Hopefully history repeats itself.
It's interesting when you look at the Blues' position. They were a team in decline but have some great players who aren't aged out. This offer sheet stuff may have saved this version of the Blues.

Imo Broberg will be a top 4 D for them. It will be freeing to get to play on his correct side and with a good RD like Parayko or Faulk. But, if Broberg doesn't do well, it's just a matter of time before the Blues tear it down.
 

Canovin

1% is the new 11.5%
Oct 27, 2010
19,097
10,468
780
Yes, but the additions need to be younger than those guys. I don't have much interest in the Oilers adding players in their 30s if they're trading prime assets to get them. I loved the Ekholm trade and like the Henrique addition and re-signing but they need some guys that are ascending or at least in prime years preferably that play with pace.
Lots of teams around that are hoarding prospects won't be able to sign all of them. This is exactly why Tampa were able to stay on the top for a long time. Those bottom feeders continue being at the bottom cause can't break out of that cycle and losing their prospects to top teams. The Oilers were once that if we didn't luck out on McDrai.
 

Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
37,497
18,432
I think if Kane goes on LTIR at the start of the season, we cannot accrue cap space. It would just be the Stone/Vegas way. If Kane comes back early, you only have 900k to work with.

Into the season he goes on for his surgery, we can accrue cap space and that could be 900k + the accrued cap space

Anymore details than that, someone else would know more than I do.
Is there a point to putting Kane on LTIR if we aren't using the extra space?
 

Canovin

1% is the new 11.5%
Oct 27, 2010
19,097
10,468
780
Is there a point to putting Kane on LTIR if we aren't using the extra space?
The 900k and accrued cap space will get used. Most likely on 2RD. We gotta accrue the cap space first before we can make any moves which is why there won't be a trade for a big fish anytime soon
 

bleatbloop

Registered User
Aug 20, 2024
18
36
In hindsight I feel the same way. Maybe they could have moved a little more aggressively on Holloway but it seems clear that the #1 priority was to give the team the best chance to win sooner than later. And by signing guys like Arvidsson and Skinner I think they did more to make that happen than would have been the case by over spending on Holloway and Broberg. And I say this as a guy who really likes Holloway and who feels that Broberg could well end up as an excellent defenseman. But Holloway can pretty easily be replaced in the short run given his role and I am not sure that the Oilers could wait around for Broberg to fully emerge if he was going to get paid over $4M.

I don't think there is a single poster on our board that likes what happened. I am certainly not one. But I am heartened by the moves they made to mitigate the loss. I think it is still possible that they actually come out of this stronger when it really matters. But time will tell.
Hard to come up with a way to be happy with the outcome, but we ultimately chose Arvidsson and Skinner as win now options and that led to us having to move on from Holloway and Broberg.

We can also look at it positively in that to bluff a match, we moved on from Ceci. We have opened up cap space we didn't have before to now accrue going into the TDL. I don't believe that was going to be possible had we matched or kept Ceci.

A lot of us, myself included, can't stand Ceci as a player. We moved on from a player that is significantly overpaid for a meager pick and that simply wouldn't have happened if those offersheets didn't go out.

I do believe Broberg will be a good player, nowhere near worth 4.5 this year in our (in my opinion) final and most important Cup run opportunity, same with Holloway at over 2. Signing Arvidsson and Skinner allowed us to move on from him, and getting Podkolzin for less than half the price of Holloway is essentially replacing him and what can be expected production wise this season. Let's not forget these guys were AHLers for most of the year.

I'm especially high on Holloway and I think his agent f***ed him and us simultaneously. He should be playing here for a million a year. Would've been a solid 4th line option and that is a glaring issue for us going into the season.
 

Whoshattenkirkshoes

Registered User
Aug 11, 2014
4,492
2,036
It would if they choose to use LTIR, but that's not the plan. They're trying to stay under the cap with their aim on trade deadline adds.

Technically, they could get as close to the cap as they can, LTIR Kane and then have an extra $5.25M of LTIR to use, but you don't accrue cap space that way and have to clear all that salary when/if Kane returns during the season.
Sir if Kane misses 2 months do we still gain extra cap space then if he didn't miss?
 

Yuke

Registered User
Jan 15, 2020
606
358
Yeah the major mistake was all the dead cap Holland piled onto our cap basically rendering the rise in the cap somewhat moot and leaving us in a bad spot.

We're effectively basically stuck at 82 million in a cap roof instead of the 88 million we should be at.
Oilers are not in this mess if JJ doesn't go out and sign his free agents. He knew the situation but I guess the Skinner gamble was worth it.
He left the mess to Bowman to figure it out.
 

5 14 6 1

We are the 11.5%
Sep 15, 2010
14,815
17,189
Alberta
Sucks to lose the players but they made their choices. Think the team made the right choice not matching, but remains to be seen I suppose
 

McDNicks17

Moderator
Jul 1, 2010
42,318
32,000
Ontario
Sir if Kane misses 2 months do we still gain extra cap space then if he didn't miss?
The Oilers are under the cap with his full cap hit on the books. He could return for Game 1 or he can return at the deadline and they'd have the same amount of accrued cap space.

Basically the Oilers have made the moves that they have so that Kane's timeline and status have no effect on their cap and that they'll have a bunch of cap at the deadline to bring in players.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
73,204
29,145
Oilers are not in this mess if JJ doesn't go out and sign his free agents. He knew the situation but I guess the Skinner gamble was worth it.
He left the mess to Bowman to figure it out.

I would say the Henrique deal is more of the one someone could point to in that case, that was a nice to have, was it a must have? Maybe, maybe not.

Holland left us in a bad situation, 6 million in dead cap is a lot in a summer where we should have had a considerable amount of cap space to finally stretch our legs a bit. We're operating at 82 million roof instead of 88 mill.

Beyond that this whole situation is a total fail for the "draft and develop!" crowd, Chiarelli and Holland effectively bungled almost all their picks for 9 years aside from getting McDavid (which I'm not giving either credit for). Bouchard and Skinner are basically the only things they have to show for that many years of drafting and it's unlikely now with no 1st in 2025 that any pick the Oilers have made will make a big difference in the McDavid-Draisaitl prime era.

At least Bouchard was a hit. We're just going to have to pursue a strategy like with the Kostin and Podkolzine deals of taking flyers on prospects that burn out of other franchises, but like the 2026 1st rounder is likely a goner at the trade deadline and that's the correct call at this point. A 2026 pick is maybe going to make a roster difference by .... 2029 ... that's what too far out. Needed to make hay with your picks from 2015-2022.
 

FlameChampion

Registered User
Jul 13, 2011
14,325
16,637
Oilers are not in this mess if JJ doesn't go out and sign his free agents. He knew the situation but I guess the Skinner gamble was worth it.
He left the mess to Bowman to figure it out.

I think JJ can be blamed for not locking up Holloway sooner but pretty sure Broberg was intent on leaving. He didn’t want to be here.
 

Canovin

1% is the new 11.5%
Oct 27, 2010
19,097
10,468
780
I would say the Henrique deal is more of the one someone could point to in that case, that was a nice to have, was it a must have? Maybe, maybe not.

Holland left us in a bad situation, 6 million in dead cap is a lot in a summer where we should have had a considerable amount of cap space to finally stretch our legs a bit. We're operating at 82 million roof instead of 88 mill.
How do people watch the playoffs and not want Henrique, Brown and Janmark back? That line should be automatic. Holloway and Broberg would have been nice to have back as they had their moments in the playoffs but they chose money and security. The Oilers also needed wingers for Drai and McDavid so they added Skinner and Arvidsson. If you're GM, those are the pieces you add first cause Holloway and Broberg were holding out since mid season.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
16,331
17,980
Vancouver
I think you know that I am not the conspiracy theory type. But reading between the lines, and even some of the actual lines, it sounds like Broberg's plan was not a decent contract for his current value but to get out of Dodge by hook or by crook. It sure looks like he was not happy with his prospects as an Oiler. BY playing it the way his camp did I think that is a big sign that he was not on board with the program of having him play the second pairing RHD slot.

Now if there was a "mistake" here it was in not getting something done with Holloway earlier. But even then it may not have been nearly as easy as it may seem. It sure looks like the Broberg OS plan was to get Holloway involved early as a pawn to force the Oilers into letting Broberg walk. Even listening to Holloway it sure sounds like he did not expect to end up a Blue. My guess is that if he could go back he would have probably not taken this route.

The Oilers have over the last few years really botched their cap management. Neither of the last two Gm's were at all creative in handling the cap. Most of this is on Holland but Chia still bears some blame. He was very reactive and not at all creative. A series of his moves also triggered moves by Holland , who may have been even less creative, that had cap implications even today. That left the Oilers vulnerable to a move like this. But pretty much every top contender has been in a similar position and has acted in a much similar manner without the result of an OS. Is it that St. Louis was set on breaking the norm, or was this a perfect opportunity since the player actually wanted out. Frankly, I now believe it was a combination of the two.

As to the Brown signing, as a hockey move that is still up in the air. But that contract can be fully buried so I don't think it had any significant impact on signing a guy like Holloway.
Even more reason to act pro-actively as I stated vs low ball offers to their key young players and sit on that without any movement. If the Broberg relationship was as bad or broken as coming out then move on it earlier to try to mitigate with a second offer, some vision of how he fits on the team, or in discussing move options. A favourable trade situation gives options for return (young player vs. non 1st round pick) and both teams avoid an inflationary salary jump There was a month and a half to get business done. And Jackson as a super agent (and former player) has to have a well defined sense of a player's intent.

Have said early salary movement on Holloway and trying to bridge the gap might have softened the player's resolve. Mitigate a double jeopardy situation of your worst scenario risk management planning with organizational planning. That said, Holloway looks fine and content to me with the Blues vision, paycheque, and future life in St. Lou.

This has been cap issue for sure. It's been a development issue moreso and to some extent the challenge of a mature phase team effectively onboarding young players, especially with the high volatility of the team's performance with 3 coaches in recent histories to go with playoff competition.

Big bump in cap, growing warning signs of prospective offer sheet potential notably by a GM in June who showed trade deadline interest in your two young guys, limited cap space.
Act earlier on your young talent. Especially when there's friction. Control your situation vs passivity expecting to lowball.

Got Yer Back just dropped a podcast on the situation. I think it's an interesting listen.

 

Yuke

Registered User
Jan 15, 2020
606
358
I would say the Henrique deal is more of the one someone could point to in that case, that was a nice to have, was it a must have? Maybe, maybe not.

Holland left us in a bad situation, 6 million in dead cap is a lot in a summer where we should have had a considerable amount of cap space to finally stretch our legs a bit. We're operating at 82 million roof instead of 88 mill.

Beyond that this whole situation is a total fail for the "draft and develop!" crowd, Chiarelli and Holland effectively bungled almost all their picks for 9 years aside from getting McDavid (which I'm not giving either credit for). Bouchard and Skinner are basically the only things they have to show for that many years of drafting and it's unlikely now with no 1st in 2025 that any pick the Oilers have made will make a big difference in the McDavid-Draisaitl prime era.

At least Bouchard was a hit. We're just going to have to pursue a strategy like with the Kostin and Podkolzine deals of taking flyers on prospects that burn out of other franchises, but like the 2026 1st rounder is likely a goner at the trade deadline and that's the correct call at this point. A 2026 pick is maybe going to make a roster difference by .... 2029 ... that's what too far out. Needed to make hay with your picks from 2015-2022.
Sure Holland left them in a tough spot But JJ didn't care about that, he just went out and signed FAs instead of his own guys
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
73,204
29,145
Sure Holland left them in a tough spot But JJ didn't care about that, he just went out and signed FAs instead of his own guys

I think McDavid and Draisaitl were clear to management after the season that they wanted more help on their wings, he didn't just randomly go out and sign guys, there was a mandate to have to improve upfront. Since Kane has become more of a non factor after the 2022 playoffs, the team has missed that scoring upfront in both of the last two playoff runs (even though we damn near won last year anyway).

Henrique is probably the deal in 50-50 hindsight you don't do, but Holland put us in a rough spot and they thought they could eek out just one year by pulling McLeod on Broberg and Holloway. It didn't work obviously. Having Derek Ryan + Holloway (?) as our bottom 6 centers would have been less than ideal.
 

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