Confirmed Signing with Link: Oilers decline to match offer sheets for Broberg and Holloway

[notbias]

there are credible reports that RNH could have gotten north of 7 million on the open market. He chose to stay here for less. He's a value deal.

Stuart Skinner makes 2.6 million. That's a value deal.

Leon Draisaitl makes 8.5 million for the moment. That's a value deal.

Connor McDavid at 12.5 is STILL a value deal.

"possible" Bouchard - dude finished in top 5 for Norris votes, was point per game, and had a fantastic playoffs.

For the time being, he's a massive value deal.

All those value deals are ruined by Nurse, Neal, Brown, and Campbell... Edmonton has horribly mismanaged the cap.

McDavid is the team.

 

[Rubi]

we literally traded a player we drafted in the 2nd round for Matt Savoie

our starting goalie is from the 3rd round
Desharmais is a 7th rounder
John Marino was a 6th rounder, heck Caleb Jones is still bouncing around and he was 4th rounder
so no, it 's not "terrible"

You missed Ryan McLeod who was drafted 6 years ago in 2018. He's probably your best pick outside the 1st round.
Skinner was drafted in 2017 which is 7 years ago but you have to cut him a lot of slack since he's a goalie and development usually takes longer than skaters.
Desharnais is a 28 year old meh dman who was drafted 8 years ago and has 114 nhl games on his resume.
Marino was drafted 9 years ago and has a respectable 328 games under his belt. I'll give you that one.
Caleb Jones? 9 years ago and 242 games n his resume. Just signed for league minimum. Will probably spend time in the AHL.

Admit it. The Oilers drafting past tge 1st rnd has been far from pretty. Not sure why you are trying to defend it. I could probably go on HF Oil and find dozens that say the same.

 

[Mike Liut]

I think it was a great move by the Blues and a smart move by the oilers for not matching. A 2nd, 2 - thirds and Fisher is a decent return and extra cap room to sign Drai, Bouch and soon McDavid.

 

[HarrySPlinkett]

If your a cup contender spending 6 million + on him was absurd.

The Hurricanes have never been true contenders.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

lol stole? Blues are paying almost 7 mil for 81 games and 13 points of Broberg and 89 games and 18 points from Holloway...hardly a "steal"

if Bowman signed them to these contracts, everyone would be laughing at the Oilers for these ridiculous deals

(for the record, I wanted to keep Broberg)

Except it never should have got to this point. The fact is we lost two young higher end prospects for peanuts.

Putting ourself in this position was a massive failure.

You could have traded these players for two years of Buch, you could have traded them for other assets, you could have resigned them long ago, instead we get a 2nd and 3rd round pick. Whoopee

 

[9GWG9]

Lord thundering Jesus!

I thought this was Calgary Puke reading all this malarkey!

Oilers made the right call on both. Cant ask others for discounts and then cave on the offer sheets.

Smart move by the Blues. They have been planning this with ol Kenny for awhile now.

 

[ManofSteel55]

All those value deals are ruined by Nurse, Neal, Brown, and Campbell... Edmonton has horribly mismanaged the cap.

McDavid is the team.

There have been cap management issues, we won't argue there. Thankfully Brown's bonus is only one the books for one year, and Neal's is almost up. Unfortunately, we have dead space from Campbell for the next 4 years (next year's increased penalty on Campbell eats most of what would have come off the books from the Neal deal), and yes, Nurse costs us at best 1-2M, and when he is playing bad, he isn't worth half of that contract, which offsets some savings. But if you add up the bad deals vs the team friendly ones, it actually balances out.

Bad contract negative values
Neal buyout - 1.9
Campbell buyout - 1.1 this year
Nurse - for argument's sake, we'll say 4M in the negative
Bonuses from last year - 3.55M
Total - A disgusting 10.5M in wasted money

Steals
Draisaitl - let's be conservative and say we are saving 3M on what he should be paid.
Bouchard - at least 5M below what he is producing
Hyman - probably 3M below what he should be making, assuming he doesn't score 50 again.
McDavid - probably 2M below what he should be making
Skinner - let's say 2M savings to be conservative.
Total - 15M

So it all comes out as a wash in the end. Edmonton is actually ahead of the game a bit. But it still sucks, because with those value contracts, we should be a dynasty. Can you imagine what else Edmonton would be able to add with an additional 10M in salary? Ugh. It also sucks because 4 of those 5 value contracts are due for raises in the next two seasons. Bouchard and Draisaitl, big ones for sure. Double ugh.

 

[SEALBound]

Possible Bouchard. I must have missed all the top 4 d-men signing for under $4 million this offseason.

No point in debating someone as obviously biased as you are here.

there are credible reports that RNH could have gotten north of 7 million on the open market. He chose to stay here for less. He's a value deal.

Stuart Skinner makes 2.6 million. That's a value deal.

Leon Draisaitl makes 8.5 million for the moment. That's a value deal.

Connor McDavid at 12.5 is STILL a value deal.

"possible" Bouchard - dude finished in top 5 for Norris votes, was point per game, and had a fantastic playoffs.

For the time being, he's a massive value deal.

I'm not going to disagree that guys like Bouchard provide value and that McDrai provides tremendous levels of play at their salary. What I was talking about is ELC or bridge-level contracts for guys who come in and break out. Speaking more towards the importance of having young guys come in and make an impact and filling holes for low dollars so that teams can spend more to keep guys like Draisaitl and sign depth pieces like Arvidsson. McDrai or RNH being in their 2nd/3rd contracts and taking "a little less" isn't necessarily the same thing (or at least not what I was talking about).

I say that Hyman might be more of an exception to that because his contract relative to goal production may cause him to go down as one of the best UFA signings of all time.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Except it never should have got to this point. The fact is we lost two young higher end prospects for peanuts.

Putting ourself in this position was a massive failure.

You could have traded these players for two years of Buch, you could have traded them for other assets, you could have resigned them long ago, instead we get a 2nd and 3rd round pick. Whoopee

well yes of course it's poor asset management...I don't think it was a "steal"

 

[Frenzy31]

This would make sense if the salary cap didn't exist.

So you are saying that fans would have happy accepted that return two weeks ago even with the cap hits. That just isn’t true.

If the Oilers had signed the players to these contracts in July, the fans would have justified it.

 

[Bank Shot]

I'm not going to disagree that guys like Bouchard provide value and that McDrai provides tremendous levels of play at their salary. What I was talking about is ELC or bridge-level contracts for guys who come in and break out. Speaking more towards the importance of having young guys come in and make an impact and filling holes for low dollars so that teams can spend more to keep guys like Draisaitl and sign depth pieces like Arvidsson. McDrai or RNH being in their 2nd/3rd contracts and taking "a little less" isn't necessarily the same thing (or at least not what I was talking about).

I say that Hyman might be more of an exception to that because his contract relative to goal production may cause him to go down as one of the best UFA signings of all time.

Well Broberg and Holloway weren't really guys outperforming their ELC contracts anyway.

And Stanley Cup winners haven't really been relying on that for quite awhile. When you look at the last several winners, Florida, Vegas, Colorado, Tampa, St.Louis, Washington, none of those teams really had any ELC contract players playing huge roles.

I really don't see the need for a distinction. What does it matter if a player is outperforming on an ELC or a standard player contract? Money is money. It doesn't really matter where the value contracts come from as long as you have them.

 

[TKB21]

St.Louis just paid 7 million a year for a fourth liner and bottom pairing Dman, hahahahah

 

[SEALBound]

Well Broberg and Holloway weren't really guys outperforming their ELC contracts anyway.

And Stanley Cup winners haven't really been relying on that for quite awhile. When you look at the last several winners, Florida, Vegas, Colorado, Tampa, St.Louis, Washington, none of those teams really had any ELC contract players playing huge roles.

I really don't see the need for a distinction. What does it matter if a player is outperforming on an ELC or a standard player contract? Money is money. It doesn't really matter where the value contracts come from as long as you have them.

Florida had Lundell, Washington had guys like Vrana, Burakovsky, Wilson; St Louis had Robert Thomas, Barbashev, and Dunn; Penguins had Murray, Sheary, Rust, Guentzel. Tampa had Cerelli, Sergachev, Cernak.

I think it's more common to find younger kids outperforming their ELC or bridge than to see UFAs outperform their contract. That's all I was saying. Sure, it's possible to have guys you sign be of good value, or at least not detrimental, like Nurse or Campbell.

 

[Bank Shot]

Florida had Lundell, Washington had guys like Vrana, Burakovsky, Wilson; St Louis had Robert Thomas, Barbashev, and Dunn; Penguins had Murray, Sheary, Rust, Guentzel. Tampa had Cerelli, Sergachev, Cernak.

I think it's more common to find younger kids outperforming their ELC or bridge than to see UFAs outperform their contract. That's all I was saying. Sure, it's possible to have guys you sign be of good value, or at least not detrimental, like Nurse or Campbell.

Most of those guys didn't play key roles. Robert Thomas for example had 6 points in St. Loui's playoff run.

But the fact you chose to bring up Nurse and Campbell when we are talking about value contracts shows you are being disingenuous in your arguments and just trying to paint Edmonton in a negative light.

Keep trying I guess. Impartial fans will acknowledge that the Oilers have a lot of value contracts right now.

 

[SEALBound]

Most of those guys didn't play key roles. Robert Thomas for example had 6 points in St. Loui's playoff run.

But the fact you chose to bring up Nurse and Campbell when we are talking about value contracts shows you are being disingenuous in your arguments and just trying to paint Edmonton in a negative light.

Keep trying I guess. Impartial fans will acknowledge that the Oilers have a lot of value contracts right now.

Dear lord.

Done.

 

[rojac]

When a player signs an offer sheet with another club, they're basically saying one of two things:

1) They want out.
2) They don't trust their current team to negotiate a far deal for their services.

Do either of those two things make you want to keep the player?

 

[BleedBlue14]

No one, including the Oilers, know how well Holloway and Broberg will develop. No one can see the future.

I'm sure the Oilers know only too well what these two are worth at present as far as whether they are worth the value of their new contracts and whether at present the Oilers feel their production last year merits an overpay.

What the Oilers know for sure, however, is what kind of human beings these two are and whether they want them in their locker room for years to come. This they know far better than the Blues do.

Have to ask, what is this based off of?

This isn’t a situation of the Oilers choosing to let these two walk. This is a situation where they chose to add a boatload of veterans to fill needs and disregarded the potential that the team control of an RFA comes with the potential of offer sheets.

 

[BleedBlue14]

When a player signs an offer sheet with another club, they're basically saying one of two things:

1) They want out.
2) They don't trust their current team to negotiate a far deal for their services.

Do either of those two things make you want to keep the player?

I think you also need to add a number 3 of they think/want a bigger role than their current organization can offer them.

I’d imagine in this instance 80% of the reasoning had to do with financials.

But where is the pathway for Broberg and or Holloway to get an opportunity outside of the bottom of the lineup given the acquisitions Edmonton made?

 

[Slats432]

Lord thundering Jesus!

I thought this was Calgary Puke reading all this malarkey!

Oilers made the right call on both. Cant ask others for discounts and then cave on the offer sheets.

Smart move by the Blues. They have been planning this with ol Kenny for awhile now.

We don't know the inner workings but their poor handling during their development didn't help get them signed, especially when you show them how valuable they are by using all your cap space on..

Jeff Skinner, Arvidsson, Henrique, Janmark, Brown, Brown, Carrick, Perry, Pickard. How does a player feel when the organization says...well, now that we signed these 9 guys you have to take a discount to stay.

The Oilers may have made the right decision on them, but that is like making the decision to go to the hospital after you shoot yourself in the foot.

As an Oiler fan we have sucked at development for at least 20 years now. Hopefully it gets better.

 

[Canovin]

We don't know the inner workings but their poor handling during their development didn't help get them signed, especially when you show them how valuable they are by using all your cap space on..

Jeff Skinner, Arvidsson, Henrique, Janmark, Brown, Brown, Carrick, Perry, Pickard. How does a player feel when the organization says...well, now that we signed these 9 guys you have to take a discount to stay.

The Oilers may have made the right decision on them, but that is like making the decision to go to the hospital after you shoot yourself in the foot.

As an Oiler fan we have sucked at development for at least 20 years now. Hopefully it gets better.

The negotiations happened in mid season. Long before we even had Henrique, Skinner, Arvidsson etc. They were a priority and we had the cap space but the negotiations were put off because they wanted to wait for the offersheet.

 

[Bank Shot]

We don't know the inner workings but their poor handling during their development didn't help get them signed, especially when you show them how valuable they are by using all your cap space on..

Jeff Skinner, Arvidsson, Henrique, Janmark, Brown, Brown, Carrick, Perry, Pickard. How does a player feel when the organization says...well, now that we signed these 9 guys you have to take a discount to stay.

That is completely normal though. RFAs without arbitration rights normally sit around all summer without contracts. There are around 15+ guys around the league currently in the same position.

Oilers signed all the vets at value contracts as well with the exception of perhaps Janmark and Perry.

 

[MessierII]

If the Oilers had signed the players to these contracts in July, the fans would have justified it.

Hahahaha no

 

[Sniper99]

Total mismanagement by the oilers to lose two young prospects.

but was it though? December Broberg wanted out and nobody said a thing. Now he leaves for 4 million and now everyone thinks they "mismanaged" HF and everyone else, never change

Holloway maybe but definitely not Broberg.

 

[bernmeister]

You haven't proven anything, let alone that you were right. In this thread, you had the following offer:

2 2nds from the Rangers (which they don't have), Sykora and Lindgren at $2.25M
for
Holloway, Broberg and 2 3rds

You proposed these types of trades during the season and had the Oilers pulled the trigger, it could/would have impacted their playoff run.

Oilers got caught waiting too long to sign their young RFAs and chose other options than matching. It's appearing more and more likely that once Holland knew he was done, he didn't care about the future. Only looked at the season and that's it. Your trade last year wouldn't have benefited the Oilers at all and when written out, actually seems worse than what they were forced to do which breaks down to:

Holloway, Broberg, Ceci, a 3rd and a 4th
for
Emberson, Podkolzin, Fischer, a 2nd and 2 3rds

1. I specified flexible about when for both teams on the 2nds + 3rds

2 Had Oil done this during the season, as you bring up, barring injury Lindgren no worse than Broberg now/then [yeah, we get Bro has upside which is why it is considered], he did not have his new deal yet. His cap hit at 50% would have been 1.5m w/rfa rights. Hol + Sykora both non factors in POs last yr.

3. They could have still run as they did thru cup run, then made my deal like a wk after the draft.

4. As to
"Your trade ... when written out, actually seems worse than what they were forced to do which breaks down to:
Holloway, Broberg, Ceci, a 3rd and a 4th
for
Emberson, Podkolzin, Fischer, a 2nd and 2 3rds"

disagree

 

[Sniper99]

Can’t wait to see the mental gymnastics Oilers fans will spin when Draisaitl walks as a UFA. That’s going to be great entertainment.

LOL he wont, chill out.