Oilers culture issues

[MarkT]

if I had to diagnose the problem with the Oilers is that they don't value complete players enough. McDavid is insanely good offensively, but has never bought into being a 200 foot player. They kept Desharnais in the lineup despite him only being good at a couple parts of the game. They sign Klingberg, Tyson Barrie, Jeff Skinner, Kasperi Kapanen, etc - offense only players. It makes it very difficult to win consistently if the coaches need to constantly shelter players, and the opposition has a very clear focus for their attack. The strategy against the Oilers is simple - when their offense-only players are on the ice, keep them defending.

 

[nturn06]

What do Broberg, Holloway, McLeod and Foegele have in common? They all left the Oilers after last season and took a step forward this season.

The Oilers over-reliance on Draisaitl and McDavid is a big issue in my view. In tight games they often play 24+ minutes. I understand that they are in win now mode but it is important to have young players on cheap contracts that chip in and can take on bigger roles as they develope in good organizations.

A lack of positive mistake culture for young players and a fanbase that is apparently lacking to appreciate some players by just seeing the bad… when I read comments about Bouchard I am seriously puzzled.

It was no secret that Holloway was talented but he never got a fair extended chance to play in the top six. The coaching staff only realized in the playoffs that it may be wiser to play Broberg over Desharnais.

To top it off mgt also didn‘t value those players and prioritized to sign older players in Arvy and Skinner which falls in line of a culmination of mistakes in prior seasons (Nurse, Campbell, Lucic contracts, Hall trade, etc)

They also received better and more ice time, it is not a shock that their performance improved.

I simply do not see how the Oilers could give too all of Holloway, McLeod and Foegele top 6 minutes.

 

[nturn06]

Colorado's management runs circles around Edmonton's.

Yea, that Byram trade was amazing

 

[bambamcam4ever]

They also received better and more ice time, it is not a shock that their performance improved.

I simply do not see how the Oilers could give too all of Holloway, McLeod and Foegele top 6 minutes.

Pretty easy, if they run 3 scoring lines with McDavid, Draisaitl, and RNH centering each then those depth players would get more ice time with some talent around them and could show how they could contribute. But since the Oilers stars are so focused on winning scoring titles alive all else, there just isn't much opportunity for anyone else. Harder for a going player to develop some confidence when the #1 unit is hogging all the PP time.

 

[TS Quint]

They also received better and more ice time, it is not a shock that their performance improved.

I simply do not see how the Oilers could give too all of Holloway, McLeod and Foegele top 6 minutes.

Haha, they found time for Ardvisson and Henrique. It's not a hard top 6 to crack.

 

[edog37]

Awesome post!

You tell 'em, intelligent man!

Facts are facts

 

[nturn06]

Pretty easy, if they run 3 scoring lines with McDavid, Draisaitl, and RNH centering each then those depth players would get more ice time with some talent around them and could show how they could contribute. But since the Oilers stars are so focused on winning scoring titles alive all else, there just isn't much opportunity for anyone else. Harder for a going player to develop some confidence when the #1 unit is hogging all the PP time.

Yes, if you play 3 lines, you could easily play each of the three lines 20+ minutes per game [/sarcasm]

As a side note, the RHN line would be by far the weakest of the three, they would not be running 3 top 2 lines.

 

[nturn06]

Haha, they found time for Ardvisson and Henrique. It's not a hard top 6 to crack.

They are both averaging 14 minutes per game, they are not playing in top 6 most of the times. In contrast McLeod plays about 16:30, Holloway about 16:48 and Foegle 16:08.

 

[TS Quint]

They are both averaging 14 minutes per game, they are not playing in top 6 most of the times. In contrast McLeod plays about 16:30, Holloway about 16:48 and Foegle 16:08.

What are you talking about? Classic moving of the goal posts. The topic is finding spots in the Oilers top 6. What's better to you? Playing in the Sabres top 6 with Zucker and Greenway or playing with the Oilers top 6 ? Stop apologizing for incompetence.

We all know how the Oilers handled Holloway and Broberg was completely inept.

The McLeod trade will come down to pro scouting. Maybe it works out in the end but not this year when they are trying to win.

It was complete roster mismanagement. Who do you want? Skinner, Henrique and Arvidsson for $10m or McLeod, Holloway and Foggle for $7.89m. Bowman is an idiot.

 

[nturn06]

What are you talking about? Classic moving of the goal posts. The topic is finding spots in the Oilers top 6. What's better to you? Playing in the Sabres top 6 with Zucker and Greenway or playing with the Oilers top 6 ? Stop apologizing for incompetence.

We all know how the Oilers handled Holloway and Broberg was completely inept.

The McLeod trade will come down to pro scouting. Maybe it works out in the end but not this year when they are trying to win.

It was complete roster mismanagement. Who do you want? Skinner, Henrique and Arvidsson for $10m or McLeod, Holloway and Foggle for $7.89m. Bowman is an idiot.

The Oilers have McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, Hyman in top 6, how are they goona fit three more players there?
Also, who is Holloway gonna replace on PP1?

And that is completelly ignoring the fact that, while not putting up many points, Podkolzin is exactly what Draisaitl needs on his line, without him it is possible that Drai would put fewer points.

As for Bowman being an idiot for some moves which were made before he even became a GM, no comment.

 

[nturn06]

Addon: For the people who think that the Oilers could have kept Holloway, McLeod and Foegle and give them the same ice time they get now, here is a bit of very simple math.

A team plays 3 forwards at a time, so the total ice time for forwards is roughly 180 minutes per game (PP/PK,EN can add or subtract few second).

The Oilers are currently playing:
McD 22:08
Drai 21:39
Hyman 19:09
RNH 18:52

and those would not be bumped down by the above mentioned players. So if we add
Holloway 16:49
McLeod 16:35
Foegle 16:07

they would have 7 players who played 131:19. That means that the remaining 5 forwards would average about 9 minutes per game.

To make things worse, the 7 forwards would combine for more PP time than the Oilers currently get per game... But somehow they would still get the same quality ice time.

 

[WhiskeyEE]

Haha, they found time for Ardvisson and Henrique. It's not a hard top 6 to crack.

Henrique has only played top 6 due to injuries.

 

[TS Quint]

The Oilers have McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, Hyman in top 6, how are they goona fit three more players there?
Also, who is Holloway gonna replace on PP1?

And that is completelly ignoring the fact that, while not putting up many points, Podkolzin is exactly what Draisaitl needs on his line, without him it is possible that Drai would put fewer points.

As for Bowman being an idiot for some moves which were made before he even became a GM, no comment.

Let's be clear on this. You really think the Oilers are better off with Ardvisson, Skinner and Henrique over Holloway, McLeod and Foggle for less money?

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Addon: For the people who think that the Oilers could have kept Holloway, McLeod and Foegle and give them the same ice time they get now, here is a bit of very simple math.

A team plays 3 forwards at a time, so the total ice time for forwards is roughly 180 minutes per game (PP/PK,EN can add or subtract few second).

The Oilers are currently playing:
McD 22:08
Drai 21:39
Hyman 19:09
RNH 18:52

and those would not be bumped down by the above mentioned players. So if we add
Holloway 16:49
McLeod 16:35
Foegle 16:07

they would have 7 players who played 131:19. That means that the remaining 5 forwards would average about 9 minutes per game.

To make things worse, the 7 forwards would combine for more PP time than the Oilers currently get per game... But somehow they would still get the same quality ice time.

I like how you’re doing math to combat an argument no one has made. “In hindsight, they probably shoulda kept those dudes” is the claim, not “ the ice time would be exactly the same! Production- same!”

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Facts are facts

Crosby had good management. McDavid did not.

 

[Bank Shot]

Let's be clear on this. You really think the Oilers are better off with Ardvisson, Skinner and Henrique over Holloway, McLeod and Foggle for less money?

McLeod and Foegele were always terrible come playoff time. I guess we will see how Warren does this year in LA. McLeod won't be in them.

Holloway was unproven. I didn't see any of the resident Oilers haters calling him a future 60 point guy while he was still with the Oilers.

 

[Sanderson]

Pretty easy, if they run 3 scoring lines with McDavid, Draisaitl, and RNH centering each then those depth players would get more ice time with some talent around them and could show how they could contribute. But since the Oilers stars are so focused on winning scoring titles alive all else, there just isn't much opportunity for anyone else. Harder for a going player to develop some confidence when the #1 unit is hogging all the PP time.

Repeating the same lie over and over again doesn't somehow make it true...
Funny how you constantly smear McDavid and Draisaitl, yet never apply the exact same logic to anyone else.

Apparently if you carry a team because you are great players, you only care about winning scoring titles, provided you happen to play for the Oilers that is. If you play for another team, it shows shows your greatness and compete level. Draisaitl has been a two-way monster this season, clearly a sign of only caring to score. He's also second in scoring while spending half of his icetime with the likes of Arvidsson, Podkolzin, Kapanen or Brown, of which only one is a top-six player, and said player happens to play a weak season. And nothing shows putting scoring titles above winning like elevating your games in the playoffs to the point that other teams have to injure you to stop you.

Nathan MacKinnon play more minutes than McDavid or Draisaitl, so does Kaprizov. Rantanen played more when in Colorado, and Kucherov and Marner play about as much as Draisaitl. The two are also only 19th and 33rd in PP-icetime per game, but why bother sticking to facts if one can just troll for the sake of trolling, right?
And that doesn't even cover the issue of empty-net points, which certain other elite players are racking up like crazy, while McDavid and Draisaitl don't.


There are things to criticise about the Oilers management and also the way Knoblauch handles icetime. They should have made sure to get Holloway signed before trying to find further top-six wingers (which was very much a need), cap-management also because an issue, which is why MacLeod was traded in the first place. Nugent-Hopkins and Hyman got stuck to the big two even when were invisible, while some other players never got a chance. The worst bit was the treatment of Skinner though, who constantly got relegated to the fourth line or press box for no reason, even after scoring or being one of the most noticeable players (in a good way) while every random 4th liner got put next to Draisaitl or McDavid for prolonged stretches.

Mentioning MacLeod and Foegele is revisionist history. Just because they play well this season doesn't mean they would have done the same for the Oilers. One cannot criticise player-usage and then act as if this wouldn't have applied to them. Both players had severe issues with consistency. MacLeod was supposed to be the third line center, and he completely failed at that, only showing up for stretches when but on the wing. A team trying to win trying to improve on players like MacLeod or Foegele isn't an issue at all. That they didn't succeed in improving, is a different matter, and it stems in part to the weird player-usage applied by Knoblauch.

 

[ozzie]

This playoff run will tell us all we need to know about an already dubious management and culture. When the 80's Oilers lost to the Islanders, they came back stronger. This team feels weaker then last year, but if healthy I fully expect Drai and Connot to put the team on their backs. In the end Nurse and Skinner will be what kills them.

Like many, I am hoping they have been holding back alittle from last years experience. It's about time a Canadian team won a cup and 97 needs one.

 

[daver]

Crosby had good management. McDavid did not.

Funny how every team that Crosby has played for has had good management/good coaching. Of course there is zero connection between the vibe a generational player sets for his franchise and its success.

Since 17/18, it's been bad management/AHL-level linemates/bad goaltending to explain away a lack of relative team success.

McDavid, IMO, is like Ovechkin and Jagr, GOAT offensive talents who left you wanting for more championships. That is a common theme in NHL history. Crosby has the "it" factor that bleeds into the team and has the tools to do many things to contribute to winning; not just generational offensive talents.

 

[Reality Czech]

I'll tell you one thing Crosby has never done in playoffs that McDavid has done a couple of times - actually score and not rely on the likes of Max Talbot and Phil Kessel to carry his ass to a cup. I mean, look at Crosby's scoring history in the finals, it's totally incongruent with his regular season performance. Why does Crosby get so much credit for playing against opposing checking lines to a 50/50 stalemate and having his depth win for him, and McDavid/Draisaitl get vilified for absolutely carrying a shallow team to game 7? Makes no sense.

Lol maybe someday you'll realize there's a lot more to hockey than putting up sparkly scoring numbers. Maybe the day the Oilers finally realize that they will hoist the Cup again. Pretty ballsy of you to challenge Crosby's competitive nature. Crosby also has 201 points in 180 playoff games (and did that in a lower scoring period) so not even sure what they hell you are talking about.

It actually takes depth to win a championship as the Oil are finally realizing. I'm gonna assume this was a late night drunk post or something.

 

[Laus723]

Lol maybe someday you'll realize there's a lot more to hockey than putting up sparkly scoring numbers. Maybe the day the Oilers finally realize that they will hoist the Cup again. Pretty ballsy of you to challenge Crosby's competitive nature. Crosby also has 201 points in 180 playoff games (and did that in a lower scoring period) so not even sure what they hell you are talking about.

It actually takes depth to win a championship as the Oil are finally realizing. I'm gonna assume this was a late night drunk post or something.

Funny how every team that Crosby has played for has had good management/good coaching. Of course there is zero connection between the vibe a generational player sets for his franchise and its success.

Since 17/18, it's been bad management/AHL-level linemates/bad goaltending to explain away a lack of relative team success.

McDavid, IMO, is like Ovechkin and Jagr, GOAT offensive talents who left you wanting for more championships. That is a common theme in NHL history. Crosby has the "it" factor that bleeds into the team and has the tools to do many things to contribute to winning; not just generational offensive talents.

I’m anything other than a Crosby fan, but these two posts are spot on.

Defense wins championships, Zito figured this out after winning the Presodent’s Trophy and rearranged the team, thought hard then moved on from Brunette (and absorbed the flak for doing so) to hire Maurice, was patient as Maurice transitioned the players to his system, went to the Finals two years in a row and won a Cup. Oil responded to their loss by adding soft Skinner and Arvidsson. They had a good deadline, though.

 

[landy]

This is just because the Avs bottom 6 forwards and bottom pair d is a bunch of randos, not less so a sign of injuries to significant pieces

And they traded both goalies away and a bunch of forwards

Point being, look at the other teams on the list and where they are. COL should not be having success this season.