Dreger: Oilers and Flyers talking about cam Talbot

[780il]

Can't speak for everyone, but I know i emptied out a few bottles that day.

I'll put it this way - we had an entire thread dedicated to "hakstol got fired celebration memes/gifs."

Oilers fan had a whole thank you thread on the Red Wings board when Chia was fired

 

[GKJ]

You’re coming off as the very type of ‘take our garbage and like it’ fan that this board is infested with. Like I’ve said, there are other options available to us including trading not Talbot pieces and waiving the likes of Manning. We have no obligation to take a D asset like Mike McKenna. B

It's not about being a type, I don't post in these threads unless it's being serious about the situation. It's evaluating the value and worth of a player, and seeing the position another team is in. Is your team not trying to dump what they see as garbage? That's not a point specific to Talbot. They can waive whoever they want, they still have to pay them, and I can't imagine Katz would be too enthused about an increasing number of players on one-way contracts playing in Bakersfield and would very much appreciate his front office (all of which themselves are fortunate to still be employed) to get rid of bad money if they can. And they don't even get the full relief of their cap hit.

It's already been shown that the Oilers don't have to clear 4 million. Salaries are pro-rated, so they have to clear much less and can do that by trading Petrovic, moving down Manning, etc. McKenna does nothing for Edmonton, he is bad, old, and a free agent. There are absolutely zero reasons to trade Talbot for McKenna.

I know the rules on pro-rated salaries, but they still have to move a number. Stolarz is may also be a UFA he's just not old. Again, the point is here that while the Oilers are trying to make the best trade they can, the hockey aspect of the trade in this scenario is less important than the money - should they choose a make the trade with anybody for these players.

 

[belair]

It's not about being a type, I don't post in these threads unless it's being serious about the situation. It's evaluating the value and worth of a player, and seeing the position another team is in. Is your team not trying to dump what they see as garbage? That's not a point specific to Talbot. They can waive whoever they want, they still have to pay them, and I can't imagine Katz would be too enthused about an increasing number of players on one-way contracts playing in Bakersfield and would very much appreciate his front office (all of which themselves are fortunate to still be employed) to get rid of bad money if they can. And they don't even get the full relief of their cap hit.

No. Our team is shopping a player who they don't see as a future piece. And they're shopping him to organizations who do see future value in the player.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

It's not about being a type, I don't post in these threads unless it's being serious about the situation. It's evaluating the value and worth of a player, and seeing the position another team is in. Is your team not trying to dump what they see as garbage? That's not a point specific to Talbot. They can waive whoever they want, they still have to pay them, and I can't imagine Katz would be too enthused about an increasing number of players on one-way contracts playing in Bakersfield and would very much appreciate his front office (all of which themselves are fortunate to still be employed) to get rid of bad money if they can. And they don't even get the full relief of their cap hit.

Edmonton doesn’t see Talbot as garbage at all. There were reports no more than a week ago that Edmonton is open to an extension with Talbot. He’s made Edmonton his year round home and is capable of high end play. Edmonton has a lot of garbage they want to get rid of, but Talbot isn’t counted in that group. If they can trade him for something that makes sense - like a cost controlled young goalie that could back up - then they’ll do it, but I sincerely doubt they’d deal for a guy that wouldn’t even play regularly in the AHL.

I believe Philly sees value in Talbot and Hart’s mentor/mentee relationship and wants to see it prior to offering Talbot a deal. They’re potentially losing all four of Elliot/Neuvirth/Stolarz/McKenna and honestly I don’t think they care much about who goes. I do think Stolarz would need a + from the Oilers, but not sure what that is.

 

[GKJ]

Edmonton doesn’t see Talbot as garbage at all. There were reports no more than a week ago that Edmonton is open to an extension with Talbot. He’s made Edmonton his year round home and is capable of high end play. Edmonton has a lot of garbage they want to get rid of, but Talbot isn’t counted in that group. If they can trade him for something that makes sense - like a cost controlled young goalie that could back up - then they’ll do it, but I sincerely doubt they’d deal for a guy that wouldn’t even play regularly in the AHL.

I believe Philly sees value in Talbot and Hart’s mentor/mentee relationship and wants to see it prior to offering Talbot a deal. They’re potentially losing all four of Elliot/Neuvirth/Stolarz/McKenna and honestly I don’t think they care much about who goes. I do think Stolarz would need a + from the Oilers, but not sure what that is.

We'll see then if he's traded. It's not about trying to jam Mike McKenna down your throats, it's about what you're trying to accomplish in a trade, and everything points to the Oilers being desperate to clear money before they have to call up Sekera. They've already agreed to pay someone else money you expect for the level of play you feel they think Talbot is capable of. And that part's not wrong, goalies are voodoo. Stolarz - his future is murky here even if he's playing well right now, and getting value for a player who was on waivers in October is prudent for us.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I don't see how...it's one more kick of the tires to see him play against a division rival of the Flyers and perhaps another team has entered the bidding and wants a look. Maybe it's the Oilers who have held back from pulling the trigger based on a 3rd team entering in (speculation on my part).

Edit: But the thing that makes the most sense is trading a goalie the day before a pair of back to backs and having a new guy come in cold to a new team against a division leader is a recipe for a(nother) ass kicking (or play Koskinen two straight).

Simply for sample size reasons. It's nothing for or against Talbot.

This is a guy with more than enough play on film to make an evaluation. One game shouldn't sway you unless a major injury occurs.

 

[Angry Hockey Dad]

Flyers fans don't want McDavid if it means giving up Hart.

No I do

 

[Liferleafer]

What makes you say Talbot has more value than Elliott? Talbot has been the 2nd worst starting goalie in the NHL (after Anderson) over the past two seasons and carries a higher cap hit than Elliott ($4.166m compared to $2.75m).

Well for 1 thing, he actually plays. The cap hits mean nothing, they both expire this year.

 

[Liferleafer]

Are you nuts? What year is it where you live?

I have a weird question if i am nuts....why are the Flyers looking to acquire Talbot while wanting to (supposedly) send a better goalie to Edmonton (Elliott) over Stolarz? They just looking to do the Oilers a favor?

 

[mercury]

I have a weird question if i am nuts....why are the Flyers looking to acquire Talbot while wanting to (supposedly) send a better goalie to Edmonton (Elliott) over Stolarz? They just looking to do the Oilers a favor?

Trying to get Carter Hart's buddy to be his backup. And to get one of our 8,000 goalies off the payroll in return. Have you seriously not seen the difference between Elliott and Talbot the past two seasons? And the spread in cap hit?

 

[Starat327]

I have a weird question if i am nuts....why are the Flyers looking to acquire Talbot while wanting to (supposedly) send a better goalie to Edmonton (Elliott) over Stolarz? They just looking to do the Oilers a favor?

The idea would presumably be to try Talbot out now to see if he works as a cheap vet backup for Hart next year. Its a no risk move for us, because if it doesnt work, he walks, just like elliott and neuvirth will at seasons end.

Elliott has the better stats over the last two years, - including markedly better 5v5 stats this year - and while he has been injured, hes not far away from a return. Elliott also allows for Oilers to take Sekera off IR without making any other cap related moves (yes, i know its been talked about ad nauseum, they dont NEED to move Talbot to do it).

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Simply for sample size reasons. It's nothing for or against Talbot.

This is a guy with more than enough play on film to make an evaluation. One game shouldn't sway you unless a major injury occurs.

Fair enough, but that raises the question why do teams showcase at all with so much video available these days on any player available for trade. People aren't vehicles, but the trade market is an awful lot like the process of buying a vehicle. Unfortunately, watching the player play with another team is as good of a test drive GMs get but they do want to see the player in person. Talbot hasn't been good but he CAN be good. It's one last observation to either pull the trigger or walk away and look elsewhere. I just disagree with it reeking of incompetence.

If Philly gets him, hopefully he makes the first shot-save for you guys. One of our posters took the time to compile that stat. I think it's happened over 20 times on the last two seasons with Talbot. It's an alarming stat.

 

[Tripod]

It sort of is funny that right now the Flyers have:

In NHL: Hart, Stolie, McKenna
In AHL: Lyon, Kommy, Elliott(on conditioning)
hurt: Neuvirth

...and are possibly in talks for a 1-1 trade for goalies.

 

[Rich Nixon]

In any of my research I don't see any stipulations against Group VI status based on playing for just one team, so someone clarify:

If Stolarz is traded and then Edmonton plays him 10 times for 30+ minutes, he'll remain an RFA rather than becoming a UFA, correct?

Because that would change the dynamics of this trade slightly. If that's the case, then the Oilers can acquire him and play him to the threshold in order to maintain team control, rather than letting him walk in UFA.

 

[Tripod]

In any of my research I don't see any stipulations against Group VI status based on playing for just one team, so someone clarify:

If Stolarz is traded and then Edmonton plays him 10 times for 30+ minutes, he'll remain an RFA rather than becoming a UFA, correct?

Because that would change the dynamics of this trade slightly. If that's the case, then the Oilers can acquire him and play him to the threshold in order to maintain team control, rather than letting him walk in UFA.

Or either team could just offer Stolie a deal now that he likely accepts due to him knowing the uncertainty that an injury can bring.

Offer him a Chris Delia type deal and he signs without issue. He would gladly take that security knowing he has been a tweener and has had injury issues.

 

[Larry44]

It sort of is funny that right now the Flyers have:

In NHL: Hart, Stolie, McKenna
In AHL: Lyon, Kommy, Elliott(on conditioning)
hurt: Neuvirth

...and are possibly in talks for a 1-1 trade for goalies.

Frankly, I see no need to acquire Talbot at all. McKenna, Elliott and Neuvirth are gone and good riddance. Stolarz is RFA and Lyon has one more year until UFA.

Sandstrom is coming over from Sweden, and he will need probably only 1/1.5 years in the AHL until he's ready to be an NHL backup.

So what to do? Forget Talbot. Resign Stolarz for 3 years to back up Hart next year at least. That will make Stolarz eligible to be exposed in waiver draft. Keep Lyon and Sandstrom next year for the Phantoms. You can always pick up a guy like McKenna cheap if you get injuries.

 

[Shootertooter]

I think Talbot is a UFA, the Flyers aren't going anywhere this season, why would they trade anything for Talbot unless they are looking to move a contract? Stolarz is an RFA making 725K.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I have zero interest in Talbot. I am fine with running Hart and Stolarz the rest of the season

 

[HolyGhost]

It sort of is funny that right now the Flyers have:

In NHL: Hart, Stolie, McKenna
In AHL: Lyon, Kommy, Elliott(on conditioning)
hurt: Neuvirth

...and are possibly in talks for a 1-1 trade for goalies.

it is obvious that it will be a one to one. The only question will it be Elliot or Stolie and will the Flyers force the oiles to add the mid pick as well

 

[Liferleafer]

Trying to get Carter Hart's buddy to be his backup. And to get one of our 8,000 goalies off the payroll in return. Have you seriously not seen the difference between Elliott and Talbot the past two seasons? And the spread in cap hit?

Still seems quite weird to be pushing a better goalie away while trying to acquire a worse one...interesting strategy.

 

[Liferleafer]

it is obvious that it will be a one to one. The only question will it be Elliot or Stolie and will the Flyers force the oiles to add the mid pick as well

Talbot is an UFA....how are the Flyers forcing them to do anything? Because Edmonton is dying to get oft injured...and also UFA Elliott?

 

[HolyGhost]

Talbot is an UFA....how are the Flyers forcing them to do anything? Because Edmonton is dying to get oft injured...and also UFA Elliott?

Oiler fans are touchy on the subject. But due to the fact come Monday morning they need to shed about 1.2 mill in cap space. Flyers might make them cough up that pick. Oilers are in a tight spot and NEED to do something.

 

[scotchtapejr]

I think both teams have settled on Stolarz as the piece coming back. Would bet PHI is trying to get EDM to eat some salary to make it close or even with Elliott's 2.5m contract.

Or its at least what I would ask for if i were Fletcher. Either eat salary or give me a pick.

Dont think the Oilers would include anything more than a 6th or 7th for someone like Stolarz though.

Keep in mind though, Philly would have no reason to go after Talbot this year if they did not intend on re-signing him. They want hin to mentor Hart.

 

[scotchtapejr]

Oiler fans are touchy on the subject. But due to the fact come Monday morning they need to shed about 1.2 mill in cap space. Flyers might make them cough up that pick. Oilers are in a tight spot and NEED to do something.

The Oilers could send people down to account for that cap space. Hence the "holding pattern" mentioned.

I think Keith Gretzky has a point to prove and a job he wants though lol.

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

In any of my research I don't see any stipulations against Group VI status based on playing for just one team, so someone clarify:

If Stolarz is traded and then Edmonton plays him 10 times for 30+ minutes, he'll remain an RFA rather than becoming a UFA, correct?

Because that would change the dynamics of this trade slightly. If that's the case, then the Oilers can acquire him and play him to the threshold in order to maintain team control, rather than letting him walk in UFA.

The thing is who cares.

Stolarz isn't good enough to be worried about him being under control or not. No reason to think you couldn't sign him as a ufa, it's not like he's going to have suitors lining up for him.

With a goalie like Koskinen the Oilers should be looking for better than Stolarz anyways so it doesn't matter if he's a ufa.