OHL Expansion

[Kingpin794]

I have been thinking this for a while. Buffalo NY, Rochester NY, Syracuse NY. Geographically and population-wise this expansion would make the most sense IMO. I think there was a NY team once in the QMJHL; is NY still part of their catchment area?

I'm pretty sure it got mentioned earlier in the thread but wasn't Niagara Falls NY looking into building an arena that would be OHL sized? Would easily draw from the Buffalo burbs/people that are priced out of NHL games. That would be the OHL's dream scenario to finally get an upstate NY team.

 

[frontsfan67]

You’d have to imagine Brampton would be relocated to one of those markets.

Ottawa
Cornwall
Kingston
Belleville
Peterborough
Oshawa
North Bay
Sudbury
Barrie
Niagara
Erie
Youngstown

Sault Ste. Marie
Saginaw
Flint
Muskegon
Windsor
Sarnia
London
Kitchener
Owen Sound
Guelph
Brantford
Burlington


I think the OHL needs to focus on rejuvenating and enhancing the Ottawa market. I loved the idea @OMG67 had of bringing Gatineau into the OHL. The 67’s and Olympiques are 14 km apart from each other and are literally the 2 teams closest franchises throughout the entire CHL….so of course they’re in separate leagues and never place each other haha
Anyway, for a variety of reasons, I doubt this will ever happen, so I think the addition of Cornwall would be a decent consolation and I hope it’s something the OHL will really put their support behind.

Gatineau makes sense for sure but only thing is- Q is already super thin as it is. Losing Gatineau while the OHL gains another couple teams and the WHL has 22 (and about to gain 2 more) is the big problem. The Q would be down to 17 teams. OHL potentially after it’s all said and done down to 22/24 and WHL 24

Also 17 is an uneven number so does that mean another Q franchise folds or do they have to find a town to put that 18th one back in? They’ve struggled with attendance and finding good new locations as it is

 

[EvenSteven]

Gatineau makes sense for sure but only thing is- Q is already super thin as it is. Losing Gatineau while the OHL gains another couple teams and the WHL has 22 (and about to gain 2 more) is the big problem. The Q would be down to 17 teams. OHL potentially after it’s all said and done down to 22/24 and WHL 24

Also 17 is an uneven number so does that mean another Q franchise folds or do they have to find a town to put that 18th one back in? They’ve struggled with attendance and finding good new locations as it is

I understand the Gatineau idea. But if I’m the Q, why would I cooperate with the O to allow that move when the Q has been trying to get Cornwall back into the Q for 20+ years only to have the O repeatedly state that Cornwall was a “future expansion market” - when there has been no push to put an OHL team back in Cornwall.

 

[EvenSteven]

You’d have to imagine Brampton would be relocated to one of those markets.

Ottawa
Cornwall
Kingston
Belleville
Peterborough
Oshawa
North Bay
Sudbury
Barrie
Niagara
Erie
Youngstown

Sault Ste. Marie
Saginaw
Flint
Muskegon
Windsor
Sarnia
London
Kitchener
Owen Sound
Guelph
Brantford
Burlington


I think the OHL needs to focus on rejuvenating and enhancing the Ottawa market. I loved the idea @OMG67 had of bringing Gatineau into the OHL. The 67’s and Olympiques are 14 km apart from each other and are literally the 2 teams closest franchises throughout the entire CHL….so of course they’re in separate leagues and never place each other haha
Anyway, for a variety of reasons, I doubt this will ever happen, so I think the addition of Cornwall would be a decent consolation and I hope it’s something the OHL will really put their support behind.

I like those conferences. Erie to Sudbury is shorter than Erie to the Soo. For me, that puts Erie and Youngstown in that conference.

 

[ZinErie]

I like those conferences. Erie to Sudbury is shorter than Erie to the Soo. For me, that puts Erie and Youngstown in that conference.

True. But Erie only plays the Soo twice per season. You're taking away Flint and Saginaw and adding Sudbury, Ottawa and Peterborough. That's a lot of added travel time.

 

[OMG67]

They didn't announce this.
The owner said Hockey will not be leaving Belleville anytime soon. -It is not specific to the AHL or the senators. -He was VERY careful how to word it in media. - Hell maybe he meant AAA hockey for all we know. His words were very open ended.

Andlaurer just sold his OHL team and there just happens to be a renovated arena with an opening for a team in Hamilton where he has always been desperate to keep hockey teams located.

This is what i believe is about to happen post 2 more season in Belleville of AHL.
AHL Sen's Moves to Hamilton 2027-2028 season.
OHL brought back to Belleville 2027-2028 season.
I do not think Andlaurer sold his OHL team for no reason. -He didn't need the money i know that.
Last Friday Andlaurer and Cyril Leeder were in Belleville to meet with the city and sign something i'm told.
The city does not care what team plays in it they just want a lease extension signed.

Well, that’s a good angle!

 

[OMG67]

You’d have to imagine Brampton would be relocated to one of those markets.

Ottawa
Cornwall
Kingston
Belleville
Peterborough
Oshawa
North Bay
Sudbury
Barrie
Niagara
Erie
Youngstown

Sault Ste. Marie
Saginaw
Flint
Muskegon
Windsor
Sarnia
London
Kitchener
Owen Sound
Guelph
Brantford
Burlington


I think the OHL needs to focus on rejuvenating and enhancing the Ottawa market. I loved the idea @OMG67 had of bringing Gatineau into the OHL. The 67’s and Olympiques are 14 km apart from each other and are literally the 2 teams closest franchises throughout the entire CHL….so of course they’re in separate leagues and never place each other haha
Anyway, for a variety of reasons, I doubt this will ever happen, so I think the addition of Cornwall would be a decent consolation and I hope it’s something the OHL will really put their support behind.

Gatineau is a bit of a crown jewel for the QMJHL. I doubt they’d be able to make it work.

But, considering the true catchment for the 67’s, I could see a team in Kanata making sense when the Sens move downtown. They’d have to build a suitable rink but I think it would be financially viable.

 

[OSA]

Re Gatineau and the QMJHL

The way I look at it, the Q has some big decisions to make going forward. With all of the hand wringing I see in the OHL over distances and travel expenses, I look at attendances and, when compared to the OHL, I am astounded that some Q franchises are able to survive.

Consider Val D’Or….

If you thought the dearly departed Acadia-Bathurst Titan had the worst attendance in the Q this year, you’d be wrong. Les Foreurs averaged just over 1,600 fans per game in 2024-25. Val D’Or is a playoff team with some nice prospects and a semi-recent history of winning; the community’s lack of support is it’s truly unacceptable IMO (there are Junior A franchises with better average attendance for heavens sake). This attendance issue would be bad enough if we were talking about a franchise located within the Corridor and in close proximity to other franchises, but we’re not. This is an isolated community 5 hours away from any other team, with 1 exception. I would have to think the league (and probably ownership too) are not thrilled.

Now, with the new NCAA/CHL rules, the Q wants to expand into New England. Makes total sense and, truthfully, this is probably what the league must do in order to have any hope of keeping pace with the other 2 leagues going forward. Is Val D’Or and their 1,600 fans viable in a new, multi-team international QMJHL? Would the league even want them? Would there be potential ownership in larger, wealthier, better located centres looking to buy a franchise and relocate?

If the Q is successful with their expansion into America, they would probably be looking to maximize US markets for the league. Franchises in eastern New York State would be much, much better suited to join the QMJHL than they would the OHL (Albany, the Adirondacks, Plattsburgh, anywhere around NYC). Unfortunately, New York is OHL territory….

If this ever came to pass, I wonder if a deal could be struck to divide New York State between the OHL and the Q. For example, recruitment of players and potential markets west of the I-81 belong to the OHL, east of the I-81 belong to the QMJHL. In exchange, the Q allows Gatineau to enter the OHL (and maybe the OHL gets recruitment rights for players on the Quebec side of the greater Ottawa area).

Just a thought…

 

[OSA]

True. But Erie only plays the Soo twice per season. You're taking away Flint and Saginaw and adding Sudbury, Ottawa and Peterborough. That's a lot of added travel time.

Sudbury is closer to Erie than Muskegon is

If you made it a 3 game road trip, Sudbury, North Bay and Barrie is pretty similar to Muskegon, Saginaw and Flint.

 

[Helvigster]

If the Q is successful with their expansion into America, they would probably be looking to maximize US markets for the league. Franchises in eastern New York State would be much, much better suited to join the QMJHL than they would the OHL (Albany, the Adirondacks, Plattsburgh, anywhere around NYC). Unfortunately, New York is OHL territory….

If this ever came to pass, I wonder if a deal could be struck to divide New York State between the OHL and the Q. For example, recruitment of players and potential markets west of the I-81 belong to the OHL, east of the I-81 belong to the QMJHL. In exchange, the Q allows Gatineau to enter the OHL (and maybe the OHL gets recruitment rights for players on the Quebec side of the greater Ottawa area).

Just a thought…

Wasn't there a New York-based team in the Q a couple decades ago? I don't remember exactly where but it must have been close enough to the border with Quebec for the league to grant that city a team. I'm sure the OHL and the QMJHL could strike a deal similar to the one you proposed, especially since there's precedent in there already being a New York team in the Q at one point.

 

[InTheValley]

Wasn't there a New York-based team in the Q a couple decades ago? I don't remember exactly where but it must have been close enough to the border with Quebec for the league to grant that city a team. I'm sure the OHL and the QMJHL could strike a deal similar to the one you proposed, especially since there's precedent in there already being a New York team in the Q at one point.

The Plattsburgh Pioneers played 17 games in '84-'85. It didnt go well. Plattsburgh Pioneers - Wikipedia

 

[OMG67]

Wasn't there a New York-based team in the Q a couple decades ago? I don't remember exactly where but it must have been close enough to the border with Quebec for the league to grant that city a team. I'm sure the OHL and the QMJHL could strike a deal similar to the one you proposed, especially since there's precedent in there already being a New York team in the Q at one point.

Lewiston Maineiacs!

 

[OMG67]

Re Gatineau and the QMJHL

The way I look at it, the Q has some big decisions to make going forward. With all of the hand wringing I see in the OHL over distances and travel expenses, I look at attendances and, when compared to the OHL, I am astounded that some Q franchises are able to survive.

Consider Val D’Or….

If you thought the dearly departed Acadia-Bathurst Titan had the worst attendance in the Q this year, you’d be wrong. Les Foreurs averaged just over 1,600 fans per game in 2024-25. Val D’Or is a playoff team with some nice prospects and a semi-recent history of winning; the community’s lack of support is it’s truly unacceptable IMO (there are Junior A franchises with better average attendance for heavens sake). This attendance issue would be bad enough if we were talking about a franchise located within the Corridor and in close proximity to other franchises, but we’re not. This is an isolated community 5 hours away from any other team, with 1 exception. I would have to think the league (and probably ownership too) are not thrilled.

Now, with the new NCAA/CHL rules, the Q wants to expand into New England. Makes total sense and, truthfully, this is probably what the league must do in order to have any hope of keeping pace with the other 2 leagues going forward. Is Val D’Or and their 1,600 fans viable in a new, multi-team international QMJHL? Would the league even want them? Would there be potential ownership in larger, wealthier, better located centres looking to buy a franchise and relocate?

If the Q is successful with their expansion into America, they would probably be looking to maximize US markets for the league. Franchises in eastern New York State would be much, much better suited to join the QMJHL than they would the OHL (Albany, the Adirondacks, Plattsburgh, anywhere around NYC). Unfortunately, New York is OHL territory….

If this ever came to pass, I wonder if a deal could be struck to divide New York State between the OHL and the Q. For example, recruitment of players and potential markets west of the I-81 belong to the OHL, east of the I-81 belong to the QMJHL. In exchange, the Q allows Gatineau to enter the OHL (and maybe the OHL gets recruitment rights for players on the Quebec side of the greater Ottawa area).

Just a thought…

It makes zero sense for the OHL to expand into New York outside of Buffalo. The lake gets in the way. If Erie is a bit of a challenge now for the OHL then Rochester would be a challenge as well. Even worse the further East you go. Watertown may be ok if we are talking about proximity to Kingston and Cornwall but anywhere else and they have to navigate around the lake.

The issue in the Q is Gatineau, R-N and Val D’Or need to go through Montreal to get anywhere. That is a disaster. Val D’Or and R-N rely on each other for some sort of stability. IF Val D’Or goes, you may as well annex R-N into the OHL and make it a Northern team. R-N to North Bay is 3:20. It is 6 hours to Gatineau. In 5:30, R-N could get to Barrie. From Barrie they can access the entire OHL easier than they could having to go through Montreal to get anywhere in the QMJHL. If Val D’Or could find stability in attendance, they and R-N join the OHL and you have a true Northern Division. I would still keep SSM in the West since their travel is so much better heading into Michigan though. Some options out there for sure.

The reality is, the leagues don’t need to be restricted by Provincial borders. They are just lines on a map. Territory rights are meaningless. You can have a few territories where the player declares for the league they prefer to play in. If your league sucks, do better at attracting the players.

Ideally, if we are going with a 24 team OHL, you want six teams East of the GTA. Oshawa, Belleville, Kingston, Cornwall, Ottawa and ??? (Gatineau?…a 2nd Ottawa team in Kanata?). Having to travel through the GTA to get to Brantford for a divisional game is silly.

 

[tomschman]

It makes zero sense for the OHL to expand into New York outside of Buffalo. The lake gets in the way. If Erie is a bit of a challenge now for the OHL then Rochester would be a challenge as well. Even worse the further East you go. Watertown may be ok if we are talking about proximity to Kingston and Cornwall but anywhere else and they have to navigate around the lake.

The issue in the Q is Gatineau, R-N and Val D’Or need to go through Montreal to get anywhere. That is a disaster. Val D’Or and R-N rely on each other for some sort of stability. IF Val D’Or goes, you may as well annex R-N into the OHL and make it a Northern team. R-N to North Bay is 3:20. It is 6 hours to Gatineau. In 5:30, R-N could get to Barrie. From Barrie they can access the entire OHL easier than they could having to go through Montreal to get anywhere in the QMJHL. If Val D’Or could find stability in attendance, they and R-N join the OHL and you have a true Northern Division. I would still keep SSM in the West since their travel is so much better heading into Michigan though. Some options out there for sure.

The reality is, the leagues don’t need to be restricted by Provincial borders. They are just lines on a map. Territory rights are meaningless. You can have a few territories where the player declares for the league they prefer to play in. If your league sucks, do better at attracting the players.

Ideally, if we are going with a 24 team OHL, you want six teams East of the GTA. Oshawa, Belleville, Kingston, Cornwall, Ottawa and ??? (Gatineau?…a 2nd Ottawa team in Kanata?). Having to travel through the GTA to get to Brantford for a divisional game is silly.

In the 70s, the Cornwall Royals were in the Q. However, they participated in the OHL drafts and did not have Quebec players. They could only trade with teams in the O. They couldn't trade with teams in the Q.

If Gatineau went to the O, I wonder if the same restrictions apply.

 

[HockeyPops]

Owner of historic Ontario junior hockey club threatening to move west - again | insauga

With the hockey team in the midst of a playoff run the timing could be better, but it’s been two years since Oshawa Generals owner Rocco Tullio made his last biennial threat to move the team to Pickering so perhaps the timing is most appropriate. The lease arrangements at the Tribute Communities...

www.insauga.com

 

[Kingpin794]

Owner of historic Ontario junior hockey club threatening to move west - again | insauga

With the hockey team in the midst of a playoff run the timing could be better, but it’s been two years since Oshawa Generals owner Rocco Tullio made his last biennial threat to move the team to Pickering so perhaps the timing is most appropriate. The lease arrangements at the Tribute Communities...

www.insauga.com

Still 6 years out? All bark and no bite.

 

[OMG67]

Owner of historic Ontario junior hockey club threatening to move west - again | insauga

With the hockey team in the midst of a playoff run the timing could be better, but it’s been two years since Oshawa Generals owner Rocco Tullio made his last biennial threat to move the team to Pickering so perhaps the timing is most appropriate. The lease arrangements at the Tribute Communities...

www.insauga.com

LOL. Good Luck With That! Try to at least threaten to move it to a location that isn’t Brampton East.

 

[ScoutLife4]

I actually heard generals signed an extension for 30 years last Friday.
Definitely conflicting stories out there. -Not sure what one is true.

 

[OHL4Life]

LOL. Good Luck With That! Try to at least threaten to move it to a location that isn’t Brampton East.

rocco does this every other year to get a better lease agreement

 

[OMG67]

rocco does this every other year to get a better lease agreement

I understand but, JEZUS, at least pick a location that has some teeth. As if moving the Generals to Pickering with their demographics would be viable. Pick Whitby at least. Something that at least makes sense. If I were with the city, I would tell him to go kick rocks until he at least used a viable alternate location. This is much adieu about nothing and should be perceived that way by the City of Oshawa.

 

[OHL4Life]

I understand but, JEZUS, at least pick a location that has some teeth. As if moving the Generals to Pickering with their demographics would be viable. Pick Whitby at least. Something that at least makes sense. If I were with the city, I would tell him to go kick rocks until he at least used a viable alternate location. This is much adieu about nothing and should be perceived that way by the City of Oshawa.

Knowing Rocco I bet he probably doesn’t necessarily need a better deal or everything he’s asking for, but he will get something back