No. Use the pick in a way that benefits the team the most. But, you can quote Niagara GM as saying 'you cannot lose in declaring a player defective
OHL - Defected Players
- Thread starter knowescape
- Start date
No. Use the pick in a way that benefits the team the most. But, you can quote Niagara GM as saying 'you cannot lose in declaring a player defective
What is the time deadline on trading or releasing (if any)? I honestly don't know. Could they wait a season and then trade and get the compensatory pick? Half a season?
I believe the oppurtunity exists between first day of OHL camp and start of season
Otto
Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
There is no name calling, unless you are actually the GM of the Ice Dogs.
You need to pick your battle here because you keep going back and forth. If you're talking about Logan Brown' situation specifically than my previous point stands in that it's 0.02% of the drafted players and there is no need to change the rules for an extremely small fraction of the draft class.
If you're referring to the players who play the NCAA card because they don't like the way the franchise is run, then run a better franchise
Hahahahaha no. It's still name calling even if he isn't here to defend himself.
It's both Otto. Players bluff and use the NCAA card to avoid going to teams they perceive as being less. A declaration form says if they are in the game or out.
Catch-22 EON, you need the better players to be perceived as having a better franchise and win seasons. You can have a fundamentally sound team but you need the talent to make it work.
There is still plenty of talent out there to draft and build with if you have good scouts without having to go after these potential "defected players". Good coaching and development goes a long way as well.
But I don't understand why these top kids don't want to go to a lot of these teams. Go to Sudbury or Owen Sound and be the face of the franchise- the start of something new. Get top line minutes as a rook and you'll still get exposure. Most of these kids are just spoiled. And they aren't really being humbled or taught how to fight adversity. What happens when you go to an NHL team that stinks? It's part of becoming a better player. Mcdavid is the most humble kid I've had the pleasure to have met and listen to over the years and it's because he didn't have the media down his throat in Erie and won just 19 games as a rookie. Granted Mcdavid would have been great anywhere but no doubt that Erie taught him to be a more humble and enjoy his blessings.
So there are benefits to going to any team in the league and wish kids would see that. Why not be a part of something new? be on the team that rises on the top to beat the old faithful team that always has won. There are pros and cons to each and it's what you make of it. But I guarantee that guys like Connor Brown and Dermott are happy as heck to have been with Erie because they were apart of something- they help build this Erie team up. That's special
So there are benefits to going to any team in the league and wish kids would see that. Why not be a part of something new? be on the team that rises on the top to beat the old faithful team that always has won. There are pros and cons to each and it's what you make of it. But I guarantee that guys like Connor Brown and Dermott are happy as heck to have been with Erie because they were apart of something- they help build this Erie team up. That's special
I agree totally! Players with supports in place like McDavid had are very rare. Unfortunately the typical hockey family of yesteryear has spawned a generation of "me-first" players, who now have "rights" and a sympathetic media on their side. But the league acquiescing to players like this waters down the product in that it will eventually create a two-tier system of haves and have-nots.
"Do you want to play in the OHL son?"
If the answer to that is yes, here is our draft process. You could end up in the so-called best team in the league or on one that is struggling, but they are all part of the OHL package.
Otto
Lynch Syndrome. Know your families cancer history
Wow.. "very rare"? vast and overwhelming majority of players report to the teams that drafted them and you are saying it's "very rare" for a player to have supports in place? What is "very rare" is the amount of times a player refuses to report.
You're creating a narrative that doesn't exist. It literally is 0.1 percent of those who are entering the draft, and I have no issue with it.
This is what I don't understand. I'm around these kids all the time, its part of my job, and I honestly can't think of many situations in the past few years that have happened that would allow fans to be upset with players.
Drafting Logan Brown was a strategic move by the IceDogs, they knew they could flip him to Windsor and get a boatload. Outside of McLeod, who else has really done this?
Look at these boards, players are treated as assets right away. If there is an opportunity to improve the team, then fans are happy to trade him to a new city, new school, new environment without a consideration to the human elements. They are treated like assets right away. Which is fine, but somehow the of players 0.1 who see themselves as 'assets' fans get upset with them? There's some broken logic here. Its ok for fans and teams to treat players as assets, but not ok for the players to see himself as an asset? I don't get it.
You also said you have no issues with Dougie Hamilton playing the game to get himself to Niagara, which is the exact same thing that McLeod did, which you have an issue with? Im confused.
Sorry Otto, read hockeye's message first then you get the context of my reply to his message.
Connor McDavid entering the league at 15 had the focus of the hockey world upon him. In addition to being an "exceptional" entry he also carried the moniker of "generational phenom" on his back. That said, his family support was impeccable, the league backed him to the hilt and the public at large had an overwhelming curiosity about him. This was a player who could have dictated his terms, selected his team, or soft-hinted about where he would or would not report to, and no one would have blinked.
Did he though? Nope - he reported to the team that drafted him even though they were struggling and had a horrible few years before. McDavid, as good as he was, was such a humble person and he respected the league and the member teams.
The actual refusals may be small Otto, but the soft refusals are numerous. Top talent are starting to dictate their terms. Not all - you are quite correct
but more than ten years ago.
Last edited:
I'm just commenting on a trend that is growing. You don't have an issue with it or even believe it occurs perhaps but lets check back in 5 years from now and talk about the situation.
The difference between Hamilton and Brown, nobody drafted Hamilton until we picked him up in the second round. Any team could have take him, same as McLeod. If the league steps in an removes that option to dictate terms the playing field is leveled. I don't like any player dictating to the league where they will play or not. Remove that perception from the equation and stand behind your brand.
Bottom line is I think it happens more than people think. Mcdavid was asked by family if he really wanted to go to Erie. He simply said yes because they are drafting him because they need him. That's what the top pick should do- go to a team that needs them.
But there are many other cases of guys saying they won't go certain places and all the sudden they are scooped up later than they should. They dictate terms and allow themselves to fall anywhere from a few picks to a few rounds later in draft just to get picked by a certain club.
I get these kids are young, 16 years old, but you would think they also would be a little smart and realize that pretty much every team gives you a chance to succeed. Some places have different positives than others and some have different cons than others. It's just what you make of it.
But there are many other cases of guys saying they won't go certain places and all the sudden they are scooped up later than they should. They dictate terms and allow themselves to fall anywhere from a few picks to a few rounds later in draft just to get picked by a certain club.
I get these kids are young, 16 years old, but you would think they also would be a little smart and realize that pretty much every team gives you a chance to succeed. Some places have different positives than others and some have different cons than others. It's just what you make of it.
Players refusing to report and dictating where they play has been going on for a long time...Go back to 1984 Jeff Greenway drafted 4th overall to North Bay he didn't go (Played Canadian National Team) they did not get anything for him, After Tavares got excepyional status Logan Couture who was supposed to go #1 ended up in Ottawa at #12,It has been going on for years...
I so respected that level of humility!
Exactly! I suspect their agents and families have a role in guiding their decisions at 16, but there is a culture that supports this entitlement. Some kids get caught up in their own hype and can't imagine themselves playing for anything but the top line on the top team, whereas others are happy to contribute to the line the coach puts them on with the team that drafted them.
Now you have a situation in Flint with Lead in the water... How many parents are willing to send their 15 - 16 year old children there in the future...
None of the kids are billeted in Flint and the arena receives its water from a different source. With all the shenanigans, I'd be surprised if the Firebirds were even in Flint next year.
But thats what Hamilton did? The only reason that he wasn't taken in the first round was because there was no defected player rule. That draft, there there where 4/5 players who played that game, made the rule come into effect.
Thats not the case now, its much fewer.
Its trending down, not up.....
This is where the narrative begins. Without interacting with these players first hand, how could you even know? The evidence (not the narrative) suggests that this is happening less and less, so shouldn't this 'culture' be diminishing?
I really really like this topic but let's keep it civil and on discussion, after reading everything here's what I have.
Not quite, in past couple years lower end teams have actually swayed the tie a little. I don't know too much about other teams situations but Missy was never a hot spot for players to come. With the McLeod's now wanting to play and live at home it then created a situation where yes this player isn't reporting, but he's not only holding out to go to 1 of London, Kitchener or Windsor.
I agree and disagree, I believe parents and children growing up in today's age are VERY ENTITLED more so then ever now. I work for a youth sports org and lots of prima dona parents and players.
Different game, when these players make the NHL it's paid lots more and a much different environment. Some high end players never make the NHL and this is as high as they can go. I do believe players should enjoy the fact to go to a Sudbury and become the face of the franchise but that's asking a lot out of a 15 year old kid who has heard bad things about a number of places.
Not quite, in past couple years lower end teams have actually swayed the tie a little. I don't know too much about other teams situations but Missy was never a hot spot for players to come. With the McLeod's now wanting to play and live at home it then created a situation where yes this player isn't reporting, but he's not only holding out to go to 1 of London, Kitchener or Windsor.
I agree and disagree, I believe parents and children growing up in today's age are VERY ENTITLED more so then ever now. I work for a youth sports org and lots of prima dona parents and players.
Different game, when these players make the NHL it's paid lots more and a much different environment. Some high end players never make the NHL and this is as high as they can go. I do believe players should enjoy the fact to go to a Sudbury and become the face of the franchise but that's asking a lot out of a 15 year old kid who has heard bad things about a number of places.
You just never learn when egos are in the way. You become a "me me me me" player and it can cloud things. Not going to name names but certain players have gone through this league as me players and as a result jeopardized their career. They don't know how to lose and honestly are sore losers. Yes NHL is different than ohl largely due to money but there is certain patience and adversity you must go through on bad teams. It's a mental thing and some can't handle it when all they have done is have everything handed to them, including wins. You go to London and win.. Cool. You are just another pawn in a scheme that wins all the time. You get a chance to go to other teams you can be apart of the building process and idk that seems just as special if not more to me. To go through ups and mostly downs and potentially be rewarded at the end.. It's the journey that these kids sometimes fail to realize. Losing sucks but you learn more about yourself and teammates and can build a bond. It's why Erie has such a close locker room.
There will always be preferences but don't see how kids hate so much about the team they land on. That team wants you because they NEED you. They want to win and they want you to be apart of it. It's not the best scenario you maybe pictured but it can be just as good of an experience if you keep it positive
Glad to hear it. It actually arose on the London thread but when it was competing for airtime with the suspension talks - it was time to bring it out here.
I see the same thing. I call them the generation of the eighth-place trophy winners (nobody loses, you are all the best, you all get a trophy). I had an interesting discussion with a third round draft pick in Niagara. He was convinced he was the best player on the ice and couldn't understand why the coach was holding him down to fourth line (or lower) minutes. No amount of talking could convince this lad that he just wasn't that good and that his play would dictate his time. Talking with the parents they believed if their little darling was put on the first line his play would improve. Entitlement!
I wholeheartedly support the notion that these kids deserve to be paid better than they are for what is expected of them.
I love the Erie story, they had a season where they couldn't find a win with both hands and a flashlight. They were so down and out they didn't even bring a back-up goalie to a contest and had to dress a skater as a netminder. Comic relief and then they drafted high. It changed their franchise and made Erie a force to contend with. The championship list gains a new name.
Now imagine Erie's fate if McDavid (and others) said, "no thank you, I want to play closer to home or for this winning team over here". Take that right out of the equation and see what happens. Yes, a few players may opt to choose their own NCAA team but I think the quality of the OHL will shine through and most who were coming here, still will.
