Offseason Roster Building Thread Part VII

[charlie1]

Not only was Frans good defensively, he was also one of our best zone entry players, and was an excellent setup man (highest shot assists rate on the team).

Without a healthy Grabovski we'll have to rely on one of either Strome or Barzal stepping up.

 

[blitzkriegs]

That's all fair but let's not forget the Islanders actually did try to sign Nielsen and to more money and didn't. It could be a blessing in disguise, but for posterity's sake it should be considered a failure as they didn't get what they want. I certainly would feel way more comfortable with this team with Nielsen on the roster AND all the other players (give or take PA). Without him I'm not quite sure how the forwards will hold up defensively when you have centers like Nelson in the fold. We'll see how they develop.

They did, but they really didn't on resigning him. Doesn't matter - he's gone now.

 

[blitzkriegs]

Not only was Frans good defensively, he was also one of our best zone entry players, and was an excellent setup man (highest shot assists rate on the team).

Without a healthy Grabovski we'll have to rely on one of either Strome or Barzal stepping up.

He was, but also the team played to that strength as well.

 

[First Blood]

Not only was Frans good defensively, he was also one of our best zone entry players, and was an excellent setup man (highest shot assists rate on the team).

Without a healthy Grabovski we'll have to rely on one of either Strome or Barzal stepping up.

He is not going to be easy to replace, some of the fellas thinking its going to be easy to move on will see that this year imo.

I for one think that our special teams takes a step back (specifically pk) and maybe even strength scoring. Secondary scoring has been a thorn our teams side for a long time... Losing Frans and having to rely on a rookie and younger players in Lee, Nelson, Strome to up there production instead of a more proven vet is not a recipe for success.

 

[LordNeverLose]

Frans never really struck me as someone who "carried the load". He doesn't really have the ability to step up offensively if the team was struggling. That's why he was always better as a 3C instead of a 2C.

I know you're not necessarily doing this seafoam, but people talk about Frans like we lost Patrice Bergeron. Frans had a lot of flaws, he wasn't a perfect player by any means. He was weak, he couldn't step up offensively, it felt like he couldn't win a defensive zone faceoff to save his life. I would have been livid if we signed him to the contract he signed with Detroit. They're going to regret that contract as quickly as two years from now. We should have traded him years ago to Chicago for Patrick Sharp or Brandon Saad, when his value was at his peak. I'll always appreciate him for his time as an Islander, but come on.

Frans Nielsen, who had 52 points while finishing 17th in Selke voting, is certainly not a 3rd liner lol

 

[LordNeverLose]

I see a lot of people pining for Frans, but does anyone actually think we should've offered him as much as Detroit did?

 

[WangMustGo]

I see a lot of people pining for Frans, but does anyone actually think we should've offered him as much as Detroit did?

Yes. Frans was easily our second best player. And I think he will age well.

If you don't give him that money fine, but you need to upgrade on him, and they didn't do that.

 

[LordNeverLose]

Yes. Frans was easily our second best player. And I think he will age well.

If you don't give him that money fine, but you need to upgrade on him, and they didn't do that.

I think many (if not most) would consider Ladd to be an upgrade on Nielsen.

 

[PK Cronin]

I think many (if not most) would consider Ladd to be an upgrade on Nielsen.

Depends on whether you believe Ladd is here to replace Nielsen or Okposo.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Depends on whether you believe Ladd is here to replace Nielsen or Okposo.

I think the point is that if you spent the money on Nielsen, you're not signing Ladd.

 

[WangMustGo]

I think the point is that if you spent the money on Nielsen, you're not signing Ladd.

So than who replaces Okposo? PAP is a garbage replacement, and a typical islander move.

We are in the middle of JTs prime years, and the second best forward we have is Ladd. We lost our 2nd and 3rd best forwards, and didn't upgrade. Before we know it JT will be getting a new contract, he will be more expensive, and it will be harder to surround him with good players. Now is the time to go all out and splurge, make a big time trade to get a top line winger next to him. Give JT a reason to stay here.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I see a lot of people pining for Frans, but does anyone actually think we should've offered him as much as Detroit did?

Management did, lol. They offered him more. I don't think Frans will age badly at all so I don't really think that contract is as bad as people are making it out to be. Obviously I think Frans is awesome so I must be wrong.

I also think we could have signed Frans and Ladd. It wasn't one or the other. I agree with the other poster above, now was the time to go with either Ladd AND Okposo or Frans AND Ladd, not bringing in one guy while losing the other two and then signing frigign' PAP.....

 

[rikker]

So than who replaces Okposo? PAP is a garbage replacement, and a typical islander move.

We are in the middle of JTs prime years, and the second best forward we have is Ladd. We lost our 2nd and 3rd best forwards, and didn't upgrade. Before we know it JT will be getting a new contract, he will be more expensive, and it will be harder to surround him with good players. Now is the time to go all out and splurge, make a big time trade to get a top line winger next to him. Give JT a reason to stay here.

if you look at the entire picture:

we lost - KO, Nielsen, Martin, Strait, Zidlicky, Bernier. only three of these are legit NHL players.
we added - Ladd, Chimera, PAP, Pulock, Mayfield, Prince. i think that everyone but Mayfield will have a regular role.

i like this year's group better. i would say talent wise, it is a wash, but i think the new group is grittier and are better leaders. and cheaper as well. if we are going to keep JT and be competitive, we need to surround him with good value players. when JT's contract expires, Grabovski, Kulemin, Bailey, Clutterbuck, Chimera, PAP and Hickey will also be off the books. replaced with Barzal, Bellows, Beauvillier, MDC, HoSang and Pelech. throw in a few decent UFA signings, and i will go on record as saying that i think this will be our best lineup in a long time.

 

[LordNeverLose]

Management did, lol. They offered him more. I don't think Frans will age badly at all so I don't really think that contract is as bad as people are making it out to be. Obviously I think Frans is awesome so I must be wrong.

I also think we could have signed Frans and Ladd. It wasn't one or the other. I agree with the other poster above, now was the time to go with either Ladd AND Okposo or Frans AND Ladd, not bringing in one guy while losing the other two and then signing frigign' PAP.....

From a cap perspective the only way you could afford to pay Nielsen and Ladd a combined $11M long-term basically would've been to trade Boychuk. Which FTR I'm in favor of, but I think I'm in the minority on that. That would've been sweet though, IMO. Trade Boychuk to EDM (this under the assumption he's willing to waive his NMC to go to his hometown) and then keep Nielsen and sign Ladd. Then trade one of Bailey or Kulemin for anything.

Ladd-Tavares-Parenteau
Lee-Nielsen-Nelson
Prince-Strome-Kulemin/Bailey
Chimera-Cizikas-Clutterbuck

Leddy-Hamonic
CDH-Pulock
Hickey-Mayfield

 

[WangMustGo]

if you look at the entire picture:

we lost - KO, Nielsen, Martin, Strait, Zidlicky, Bernier
we added - Ladd, Chimera, PAP, Pulock, Mayfield, Prince

i like this year's group better. i would say talent wise, it is a wash, but i think the new group is grittier and are better leaders. and cheaper as well. if we are going to keep JT and be competitive, we need to surround him with good value players.

Defensively we got better, but Pulock was part of the team last year. Mayfield likely won't play much, Pelech will be the #7. Chimera is an upgrade, i like him on the fourth line with 53-15.

The problem is the top end talent we lost. We lost KO and Nielsen and have not upgraded. How is this team supposed to challenge for a Stanley cup without more top end talent up front? The secondary scoring is very questionable.

 

[LordNeverLose]

Defensively we got better, but Pulock was part of the team last year. Mayfield likely won't play much, Pelech will be the #7. Chimera is an upgrade, i like him on the fourth line with 53-15.

The problem is the top end talent we lost. We lost KO and Nielsen and have not upgraded. How is this team supposed to challenge for a Stanley cup without more top end talent up front? The secondary scoring is very questionable.

I don't think anyone expected this team to compete in '16-17, except maybe as a darkhorse if we get hot. The Isles window looks to be ready to open in about '18-19, and by then at least a couple of these prospects should have developed into legit seconday scoring, to go with the Strome/Nelson/Lee group.

 

[WangMustGo]

I don't think anyone expected this team to compete in '16-17, except maybe as a darkhorse if we get hot. The Isles window looks to be ready to open in about '18-19, and by then at least a couple of these prospects should have developed into legit seconday scoring, to go with the Strome/Nelson/Lee group.

This team should have been competing for a couple of years by now. It's been 8 years since the rebuild started. Prospects are prospects, not many of them turn into impact players, and even fewer turn into star players. Snow is wasting JTs prime. This team needs to be competing now.

 

[Local290]

He did sign the top available UFA(not including KO). It's not like he did nothing. When is the last time, if ever, that we were able to do that? We need some of the kids go step up and we will contend for years.

The team was the same for 2 years and seemed to grow complacent. We needed to shake it up and did that with some solid veterans. Guys that won't let the kids rest on their laurels. Frans will be a big loss, but he chose to leave. Nothing could be done about that.

 

[PK Cronin]

This team should have been competing for a couple of years by now. It's been 8 years since the rebuild started. Prospects are prospects, not many of them turn into impact players, and even fewer turn into star players. Snow is wasting JTs prime. This team needs to be competing now.

They've been progressing. Anyone proclaiming that this team isn't going to be as good is jumping the gun a bit I think. This is a different type of roster and we'll see how it plays out. The old guard couldn't get it done, now there is an infusion of veterans to see if they can help make the next step. This is the first time in a while we've seen quality UFA's brought in, which means they have a different perspective of the game than any of our home grown guys like Nielsen and Okposo did.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

So than who replaces Okposo? PAP is a garbage replacement, and a typical islander move.

I don't know, but that wasn't the point I was addressing.

 

[LeapOnOver]

From a cap perspective the only way you could afford to pay Nielsen and Ladd a combined $11M long-term basically would've been to trade Boychuk. Which FTR I'm in favor of, but I think I'm in the minority on that. That would've been sweet though, IMO. Trade Boychuk to EDM (this under the assumption he's willing to waive his NMC to go to his hometown) and then keep Nielsen and sign Ladd. Then trade one of Bailey or Kulemin for anything.

Ladd-Tavares-Parenteau
Lee-Nielsen-Nelson
Prince-Strome-Kulemin/Bailey
Chimera-Cizikas-Clutterbuck

Leddy-Hamonic
CDH-Pulock
Hickey-Mayfield

Eh, I think they could have found another way. All teams up against the cap do before the season starts. Islanders could have as well. They may have lost an asset for nothing, but I still think it's better than losing your 2nd and 3rd best player and only replacing one of them with equal talent. We could have traded MDC and Grabovski or MDC and Kulemin to fix the problem. That's just one way. I'm just saying the Islanders could have made it work, and probably planned on making it work since Frans offer was still there and so was the offer they made to Ladd.

 

[LeapOnOver]

One thing that is worth considering, is the depth of the defense. The Isles should be eight deep with: Boychuk-Leddy, Hamonic-CdH, Pulock-Hickey and Mayfield-Pelech.

They have not had such depth and diversity on the blueline in years - if ever. It will allow for the team to rest banged up players, as needed, and cover for serious injury - to an extent of course. (If five players go down, no amount of depth will cover that.)

I look forward to seeing what this defense can do. Especially in front of competent goal tending.

I'm not as secure about our defense as you are. We have a top 4 that's pretty decent, but after that it's just all ???????? as fas as the eye can see. Pelech looked decent while he was up, Pulock was so-so. Mayfield the same. We have no idea what's going to happen with those guys. Could be a train wreck. You never know. I would say our depth is promising, but that's as far as I would go. Before last season started we talked about our forward depth and look what happened with Lee Nelson and Strome lol. WE could have the same type of performance from our rookie D you never know.

 

[Felix Unger]

So, there's only one issue facing camp that is both important and for which we have recent news (the Strome thing was always going to happen): Halak is healthy and playing well.

What do NYI do? Halak has been key to Europe's advancement. Nobody disputes that. He also doesn't want to play with 2 other goalies. What gives?

Personally, I think the answer is to cut or move Berube. NYI have an insurance policy in Gibson. Another backup can be acquired. A 50/50 split hot hand scenario is the best as far as I can tell.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

So, there's only one issue facing camp that is both important and for which we have recent news (the Strome thing was always going to happen): Halak is healthy and playing well.

What do NYI do? Halak has been key to Europe's advancement. Nobody disputes that. He also doesn't want to play with 2 other goalies. What gives?

Personally, I think the answer is to cut or move Berube. NYI have an insurance policy in Gibson. Another backup can be acquired. A 50/50 split hot hand scenario is the best as far as I can tell.

I think we're going to waive Berube very early in the process, just like when VAN waived Jacob Markstrom very early into training camp. I think their hope was no team would claim him before giving their own goalies a chance. If that does happen, that would be great. But, I can see San Jose claiming him, they have a very unknown as a backup, and they love their former LA goalies.

But you're right, it's win-win. Berube gets claimed? Great, we have two goalies on the roster and we have Gibson in the pipeline anyway. He clears? Even better, we get to keep him and he gets to play in the AHL. But three-headed goalie monsters only spell trouble.

 

[PWJunior]

I think we're going to waive Berube very early in the process, just like when VAN waived Jacob Markstrom very early into training camp. I think their hope was no team would claim him before giving their own goalies a chance. If that does happen, that would be great. But, I can see San Jose claiming him, they have a very unknown as a backup, and they love their former LA goalies.

But you're right, it's win-win. Berube gets claimed? Great, we have two goalies on the roster and we have Gibson in the pipeline anyway. He clears? Even better, we get to keep him and he gets to play in the AHL. But three-headed goalie monsters only spell trouble.

Agree with you and Dan-o, waive Berube early and hope he clears. We finally have strong goaltending and depth to boot, don't F it up trying to act like you're outsmarting the league.