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Lshap said:
The good news is we saw a solid preview of what this roster is capable of. They CAN play at the very-good level they were at for over 30 games. The challenge – as we've seen the past three weeks – is maintaining focus and energy. Hopefully, the last 9 games are a learning experience for this young roster.

As for the not-as-young Laine, I honestly have no idea what his future is. Getting him was a great gamble, but there's no way to know if it'll work out.
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I looked at last year's standing after 56 games and this season after 56 games and Montreal has scored 6 more and given up 5 less. Yes, it is an improvement but a rather paltry one as I see it. I don't know if Montreal had a ''hotstreak'' last season compared to this one, but then this season they must have been exceptionally brutal at some point to be in an almost similar state as the season before. Being unable to sustain quality performance and so much incontinency should help those in power to identify and remedy the root of the issues, time will tell.

From what I understand and heard from friends that it was a good gamble on Laine at the time and it still maybe one considering all he has gone through. There is ample opportunity to evaluate accordingly and base decisions going forward as it is with others on the current roster.
 
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SwiftyHab said:
Anything you can do to help make the team better would be great. Thanks
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:laugh:
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angusyoung said:
I looked at last year's standing after 56 games and this season after 56 games and Montreal has scored 6 more and given up 5 less. Yes, it is an improvement but a rather paltry one as I see it. I don't know if Montreal had a ''hotstreak'' last season compared to this one, but then this season they must have been exceptionally brutal at some point to be in an almost similar state as the season before. Being unable to sustain quality performance and so much incontinency should help those in power to identify and remedy the root of the issues, time will tell.

From what I understand and heard from friends that it was a good gamble on Laine at the time and it still maybe one considering all he has gone through. There is ample opportunity to evaluate accordingly and base decisions going forward as it is with others on the current roster.
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We're comparing numbers at the worst possible time, right after an awful 9-game slump. And don't forget the first terrible month of the season. In the middle of those two bad bookends was a prolonged 32-game stretch where the Habs played great hockey at a level that was way better than anything we saw last season. People might be skeptical of how good we were from mid-November through mid-January, but that two-month stretch still represents the majority of this season.

As you said, they desperately need to figure out and fix why the Habs not only slowed down, but fell apart. We all knew they wouldn't play .700 hockey all season, but there's no excuse for going 1-7-1.

Last year's team finished the final 26 games 8-10-8. I'd like to see this year's team pull themselves together and play above .500 for the remaining games and finish 10 points ahead of last year.
 
Lshap said:
We're comparing numbers at the worst possible time, right after an awful 9-game slump. And don't forget the first terrible month of the season. In the middle of those two bad bookends was a prolonged 32-game stretch where the Habs played great hockey at a level that was way better than anything we saw last season. People might be skeptical of how good we were from mid-November through mid-January, but that two-month stretch still represents the majority of this season.

As you said, they desperately need to figure out and fix why the Habs not only slowed down, but fell apart. We all knew they wouldn't play .700 hockey all season, but there's no excuse for going 1-7-1.

Last year's team finished the final 26 games 8-10-8. I'd like to see this year's team pull themselves together and play above .500 for the remaining games and finish 10 points ahead of last year.
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I don't think it's a mystery why things fell apart, because we can point to where things got better.

Why things got better:
  • Dobes came up and gave us points that were going to be lost with Primeau
  • Monty was getting spelled more so his goaltending was better.
  • Laine came back and elevated the PP
  • Carrier was acquired and formed an actual hard match-up pair with Guhle
  • Heineman with Evans were playing high end hockey together which was allowing us to roll 4 lines and win the match-ups in the bottom 6.
Why things fell off:
  • Heineman got hit by a car, now the bottom 6 is not playing well and Pezzetta is playing.
  • Guhle cut his leg and now we don't have a hard match-up D pairing anymore.
  • The D fell apart without Guhle leading to Dobes no longer to win the games Primeau was going to lose.
  • Montembeault is not giving as great of hockey behind a less predictable defense.
  • Laine's hot-streak on the PP ended and it hasn't adjusted, meanwhile his 5 on 5 play got even worse.
We just aren't at a spot to sustain injuries to Guhle and Heineman and not receive better than league average goaltending.
 
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WeThreeKings said:
I don't think it's a mystery why things fell apart, because we can point to where things got better.

Why things got better:
  • Dobes came up and gave us points that were going to be lost with Primeau
  • Monty was getting spelled more so his goaltending was better.
  • Laine came back and elevated the PP
  • Carrier was acquired and formed an actual hard match-up pair with Guhle
  • Heineman with Evans were playing high end hockey together which was allowing us to roll 4 lines and win the match-ups in the bottom 6.
Why things fell off:
  • Heineman got hit by a car, now the bottom 6 is not playing well and Pezzetta is playing.
  • Guhle cut his leg and now we don't have a hard match-up D pairing anymore.
  • The D fell apart without Guhle leading to Dobes no longer to win the games Primeau was going to lose.
  • Montembeault is not giving as great of hockey behind a less predictable defense.
  • Laine's hot-streak on the PP ended and it hasn't adjusted, meanwhile his 5 on 5 play got even worse.
We just aren't at a spot to sustain injuries to Guhle and Heineman and not receive better than league average goaltending.
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Sure, losing Heineman and especially Guhle hurts, but that's not enough reason for the entire team to unravel over the last nine games. Their 1-7-1 record isn't a team missing a couple of players, it's a team missing focus, maturity, and stamina. Hopefully, this young team will learn how to pace themselves and avoid prolonged slumps. And, hopefully, the leaders will learn how to keep guys like Laine from drifting out of orbit.
 
Lshap said:
Sure, losing Heineman and especially Guhle hurts, but that's not enough reason for the entire team to unravel over the last nine games. Their 1-7-1 record isn't a team missing a couple of players, it's a team missing focus, maturity, and stamina. Hopefully, this young team will learn how to pace themselves and avoid prolonged slumps. And, hopefully, the leaders will learn how to keep guys like Laine from drifting out of orbit.
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It wasn't just those two items.. I also listed Montembeault and Dobes not providing the same level of goaltending they did during their winning stretch, and the total falling off of the PP and Laine.

They went from a 4 line team with a hard match-up pair, to a 1 line team without a defense pair that can match against other teams top lines, with below average goaltending and an ice cold powerplay.
 
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WeThreeKings said:
It wasn't just those two items.. I also listed Montembeault and Dobes not providing the same level of goaltending they did during their winning stretch, and the total falling off of the PP and Laine.

They went from a 4 line team with a hard match-up pair, to a 1 line team without a defense pair that can match against other teams top lines, with below average goaltending and an ice cold powerplay.
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Kind of what I'm saying – the problem looked more systemic. As you mentioned, the goalies, the defensive structure, the forechecking and PP – everyone looked lost or unmotivated. When you go from a long stretch of very-good to a stretch of very-bad, that suggests the problem is the state of mind, not the talent. This is where experience and leadership are key.
 
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Lshap said:
Kind of what I'm saying – the problem looked more systemic. As you mentioned, the goalies, the defensive structure, the forechecking and PP – everyone looked lost or unmotivated. When you go from a long stretch of very-good to a stretch of very-bad, that suggests the problem is the state of mind, not the talent. This is where experience and leadership are key.
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But it is the talent.

We are a rebuilding team, therefore we aren't a strong enough roster to withstand injuries of the magnitude that we did. When we sustained those issues, other issues in the foundation started to show because there's nothing to paper over it.

When you lose Guhle and you don't have another defensively conscious player to pair with Carrier, you suddenly are losing many shifts 5 on 5 because you can't get out of your own end.

When you lose Heineman and it throws 3 lines out of balance, you can't have a sustained offensive attack, wear down your opponent and win more shifts than you lose, like they were doing before Heineman got hurt.

When you spent more time in your zone and can't equalize the offensive talent with Guhle-Carrier, Dobes and Montembeault face more high danger chances and give up more of them.

Their best stretch was everything working as it was supposed to work, but you take two key parts out of that, everything else crumbles.

They can come back up from 1-7-1 or whatever the last stretch is, that's an overcorrection the other way, but we are unlikely to see them come close to the ceiling they showed before Guhle and Heineman got hurt because Guhle isn't coming back.
 
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WeThreeKings said:
But it is the talent.

We are a rebuilding team, therefore we aren't a strong enough roster to withstand injuries of the magnitude that we did. When we sustained those issues, other issues in the foundation started to show because there's nothing to paper over it.

When you lose Guhle and you don't have another defensively conscious player to pair with Carrier, you suddenly are losing many shifts 5 on 5 because you can't get out of your own end.

When you lose Heineman and it throws 3 lines out of balance, you can't have a sustained offensive attack, wear down your opponent and win more shifts than you lose, like they were doing before Heineman got hurt.

When you spent more time in your zone and can't equalize the offensive talent with Guhle-Carrier, Dobes and Montembeault face more high danger chances and give up more of them.

Their best stretch was everything working as it was supposed to work, but you take two key parts out of that, everything else crumbles.

They can come back up from 1-7-1 or whatever the last stretch is, that's an overcorrection the other way, but we are unlikely to see them come close to the ceiling they showed before Guhle and Heineman got hurt because Guhle isn't coming back.
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At the very least, we have the talent to be a .500+ team, even with an injury or two. That's what I expected this season; that's why this 1-7-1 stretch was so disappointing. I don't buy that the foundation crumbles if Guhle and Heineman are out. Cool down? Slump? Okay, it happens. Now they need to pull themselves out of their funk. Being a developing/rebuilding roster still carries minimum expectations. For me, that means finishing this season slightly over .500.
 
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Lshap said:
At the very least, we have the talent to be a .500+ team, even with an injury or two. That's what I expected this season; that's why this 1-7-1 stretch was so disappointing. I don't buy that the foundation crumbles if Guhle and Heineman are out. Cool down? Slump? Okay, it happens. Now they need to pull themselves out of their funk. Being a developing/rebuilding roster still carries minimum expectations. For me, that means finishing this season slightly over .500.
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For that to happen, they'll need Laine, Slafkovsky, Dach and Newhook to have second halfs that look more like the players they are/should be. It will still be difficult due to the defense and Montembeault regressing.
 
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Lshap said:
At the very least, we have the talent to be a .500+ team, even with an injury or two. That's what I expected this season; that's why this 1-7-1 stretch was so disappointing. I don't buy that the foundation crumbles if Guhle and Heineman are out. Cool down? Slump? Okay, it happens. Now they need to pull themselves out of their funk. Being a developing/rebuilding roster still carries minimum expectations. For me, that means finishing this season slightly over .500.
Click to expand...
The fact is that all of Dach, Newhook, Slafkovsky, Struble, (Barron), (Primeau), and even Guhle did not step forward as much as expected. This is the so-called growing pains of a rebuilding team but it's really bitter that there's a big chunk of our rebuild represented in this cohort.
  • Dach was expected to perform as a 2C, instead he's -29 and on pace for 30pt season despite 2nd line usage.
  • Newhook was expected to be a 2nd liner, instead he's -15 and on pace for a 26pt season despite 2nd line usage.
So right off the bat our expected 2nd line is a crappy 3rd line.
  • Slafkovsky plateaued; didn't take a step forward.
  • Struble was in MSL's dog house for the first half of the season. He's on the verge of being cut loose.
  • Barron didn't step forward, got cut loose. Habs took on a chunky cap hit in Carrier for their troubles.
  • Primeau was terrible.
  • Guhle was under-producing for his TOI despite playing better hockey than ever.
Our hot ~6 weeks came from Hutson (incredible), Laine, the bottom6, and Dobes -- in that order.
  1. Hutson's incredible but he's hit the wall, I suspect he will be better after this break.
  2. Laine has hit the wall and needs to regain his NHL fitness.
  3. The bottom6 are bottom6ers for a reason: they are inconsistent.
  4. Dobes is a rookie goalie and has rookie goalie issues.
It wasn't sustainable.

All put together you have under-performing youngsters (with one exception who then cooled down) and over-performing veterans who cannot be relied to carry anything.
 
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ok for the 100th time, if we don't get the flames pick this year ... we get an unprotected next year from Florida?
 
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