Official Tank Thread

[WeThreeKings]

Hagens or Mortone, who do we want, HFbros?


Also, I still can't get over the fact that after all this years, we're still looking for a goddamn centerman. Both Dach and Newhook are disappointing

Newhook is a winger and Dach is coming back from a major injury and a missed year.

 

[Kosseca]

Could you elaborate a little bit?

Sure. This is how I think all played out:

Replacing Monahan by Dach = Gamble
Two things here: When KH re-signed Monahan Summer 2023, he promised him to trade him during last season to a place with his consent. There never was a plan where Monahan would stay for certain. Now we dont know if MTL made an offer to Monahan Summer 2024 - which they very much have tried. Second, they didn't replace Monahan by Dach... in fact last season Dach started the season while we had Monahan too. In an ideal world, they would have prefer to have both. The mistake that was made by KH is to hang on to Dvorak/Armia over the summer and not look for a better veterant/leadership option.

Replacing Harris and Kovacevik by Hutson, Barron, Struble and Xhekaj = Gamble
There is no world in which making room for Hutson over Harris or Kovasevich is a bad thing. Now, when you look at the other LD: Harris vs Xhekaj vs Struble.... You can't affirm that Harris would fair better then the other two right now has he'ss barely an nhl D (he's not even playing all the game in CLB). So it's an easy choice: you take the intangible of both Xhakaj and Struble before Harris. Now Barron vs Kova: this is not a gamble, is mismanagement. Barron should have been traded 12 months ago.... This would have left a spot open for Kova.

Giving Montambault and Primeau the goaltending = Gamble
If there is a place where there was no way to expect the massive set back the players would have is in net. If anything, last season proved that these two could handle the pressure performance level needed by this team. I don't think anyone expected them to turn into Roy in his prime, but if they played equally as good as last season, we may not have so many blowout games.

Keeping the same coaching staff and not hiring an experience assistant coach = Gamble
Again, there is no gamble here. Last season, MTL got the all time record for game lost by 1 goal. Why would anyone think that the team was not heading in the right direction? Yeah the PP and PK where bad, but that got fix to some extend this season. So while I agree that an experience coach is needed it was also correct to expect that without any other changes in the coaching, and simply adding two key offensive players in Dach and Laine.... you may get a few more wins??

Bottom line here is that unlike a gamble, which is just hoping for the best with little effort, rational decisions where made based on info available at the time but not all of them turn out to be good. Heck... what was the mood in September? "Can this team surprise and actually make the playoff??" you dont have these kind of convo if you dont think you are building on something solid.

 

[calder candidate]

Difference between this year and last years :

Replacing Monahan by Dach = Gamble

Replacing Harris and Kovacevik by Hutson, Barron, Struble and Xhekaj = Gamble

Giving Montambault and Primeau the goaltending = Gamble

Keeping the same coaching staff and not hiring an experience assistant coach = Gamble

They really expect that everyone on the team will step up and didnt think they were relying only on hypothesis to enter this season. At the end of the day they were really blindly optimistic that everything will turn out perfect and they didnt prepare for the opposite.

I think Kovacevic and the coaching situation were flat out mistake from day one, a gamble implies that there was some possibility of a positive outcome.

All the rest not sure if they were blindly optimistic, but fan surely miscalculated…
Monahan leaving wasn’t a improvement people didn’t factor it they only accounted for Dach coming back.
But it isn’t like we were resigning Monahan long term that would have been a bigger gamble…
I don’t think Harris is a factor at all we already had 5guys ahead of him with everyone being a combination better, bigger, younger and cheaper. Laine was a gamble but Laine + 2nd for Harris wasn’t a gamble.

Goalie situation was a gamble but looking around there plenty of team that have similar situation… if our D was playing better maybe there is no issues.

 

[Demigod]

Sure. This is how I think all played out:

Replacing Monahan by Dach = Gamble
Two things here: When KH re-signed Monahan Summer 2023, he promised him to trade him during last season to a place with his consent. There never was a plan where Monahan would stay for certain. Now we dont know if MTL made an offer to Monahan Summer 2024 - which they very much have tried. Second, they didn't replace Monahan by Dach... in fact last season Dach started the season while we had Monahan too. In an ideal world, they would have prefer to have both. The mistake that was made by KH is to hang on to Dvorak/Armia over the summer and not look for a better veterant/leadership option.

Replacing Harris and Kovacevik by Hutson, Barron, Struble and Xhekaj = Gamble
There is no world in which making room for Hutson over Harris or Kovasevich is a bad thing. Now, when you look at the other LD: Harris vs Xhekaj vs Struble.... You can't affirm that Harris would fair better then the other two right now has he'ss barely an nhl D (he's not even playing all the game in CLB). So it's an easy choice: you take the intangible of both Xhakaj and Struble before Harris. Now Barron vs Kova: this is not a gamble, is mismanagement. Barron should have been traded 12 months ago.... This would have left a spot open for Kova.

Giving Montambault and Primeau the goaltending = Gamble
If there is a place where there was no way to expect the massive set back the players would have is in net. If anything, last season proved that these two could handle the pressure performance level needed by this team. I don't think anyone expected them to turn into Roy in his prime, but if they played equally as good as last season, we may not have so many blowout games.

Keeping the same coaching staff and not hiring an experience assistant coach = Gamble
Again, there is no gamble here. Last season, MTL got the all time record for game lost by 1 goal. Why would anyone think that the team was not heading in the right direction? Yeah the PP and PK where bad, but that got fix to some extend this season. So while I agree that an experience coach is needed it was also correct to expect that without any other changes in the coaching, and simply adding two key offensive players in Dach and Laine.... you may get a few more wins??

Bottom line here is that unlike a gamble, which is just hoping for the best with little effort, rational decisions where made based on info available at the time but not all of them turn out to be good. Heck... what was the mood in September? "Can this team surprise and actually make the playoff??" you dont have these kind of convo if you dont think you are building on something solid.

Valid point! Your right. At the same time, the jobs of a GM is to be able to reduce the risk of some decision. Sadly lots of decisions didnt worked out the way we where expecting it. Im the first that was optimistic about all those moves in the first place. I just think Gorton and HuGo should have been more realistic with their expectations and they overestimate a lot of their players.

They took a chance on some players, some were ready other not, but now we have no option because we bet all in on some decision.

But Ill give you that at the moment where they make those decisions, they seems to be the rights ones.

Some of them where good (Monahan for example really good return) but they should have sign a veterans forward able to fullfil the role of mentor via Free Agency.

Look im not saying that I would have done better but I think its just so evident that we where lacking experience from the get go so its not a surprise whats happening right now

 

[teamfirst]

In the mix meant not being obvious sellers ahead of the deadline. It didn't mean competing for a playoff spot, which is what they would have said if that was their goal.

They havent made even that smaller incremental step (yet) but a lot of fans misinterpreted that comment as being ready to compete for a playoff spot which is not what was meant. They just wanted to play meaningful games deeper into the year.

Not being an obvious sellers at the TDL normally means competing for a playoffs spot tho.

Don't know about all Habs fans but what i'm reading on here is more that most HF fans are worrying about the regression we see , there's not a lot of posters who are saying that the playoffs was really possible anyway

 

[Kosseca]

Valid point! Your right. At the same time, the jobs of a GM is to be able to reduce the risk of some decision. Sadly lots of decisions didnt worked out the way we where expecting it. Im the first that was optimistic about all those moves in the first place. I just think Gorton and HuGo should have been more realistic with their expectations and they overestimate a lot of their players.

They took a chance on some players, some were ready other not, but now we have no option because we bet all in on some decision.

But Ill give you that at the moment where they make those decisions, they seems to be the rights ones.

Some of them where good (Monahan for example really good return) but they should have sign a veterans forward able to fullfil the role of mentor via Free Agency.

Look im not saying that I would have done better but I think its just so evident that we where lacking experience from the get go so its not a surprise whats happening right now

As I was saying before, I think that the Laine injury really played a big role in derailing the start of this season: for one you lose a prime offensive weapon that would have allow a more balance offence and put some players in better "chair" from the get go. I also think it played heavily in the head of some players.... "oh fu**, not again" kind a moment, super deflating. With Dach being out of shape and tentative, the "boost" expected just vanished. I also think it played a role on Xhekaj and the team mind set on physicality. Refs and MSL really sent a message to Xhekaj regarding this and now he's not even a shadow of himself.

All that said... this speak to mental toughness, which isn't very high right now on this team. So we can agree that this is an area that KH fail to recognize was lacking, but you never know what you dont know and as they say “No plan survives first contact with the enemy”. So now it's all about adjusting the plan with the new information on hands and accept that certain objective can't be taken for now.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Not being an obvious sellers at the TDL normally means competing for a playoffs spot tho.

Don't know about all Habs fans but what i'm reading on here is more that most HF fans are worrying about the regression we see , there's not a lot of posters who are saying that the playoffs was really possible anyway

It more means that they are in a reasonable distance.

And the thing about the sample size is that this could be a slump at the beginning of the year and then we progress later.

 

[Guy Larose]

Sadly their evaluation was not right for some players and they went to fast the transition. That's why the team play way worst than last year.

LOL no

 

[morhilane]

Hagens or Mortone, who do we want, HFbros?

Also, I still can't get over the fact that after all this years, we're still looking for a goddamn centerman. Both Dach and Newhook are disappointing

Habs have Hage in the NCAA looking very good and Beck is looking like a two-way middle 6 center in the AHL right now. And nothing says that Dach isn't going to get his mojo back. He looked like a top 6 center in the 2nd half of 2022-2023 and at the start of last season before his injury.

It takes years for the majority of draftees to be impactful at the NHL level. The Habs roster is stilll mostly Bergevin's era assets. The rebuild 2022 prospects cuvée is starting their pro-career this season (except for Slaf).

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sure. This is how I think all played out:

Replacing Monahan by Dach = Gamble
Two things here: When KH re-signed Monahan Summer 2023, he promised him to trade him during last season to a place with his consent. There never was a plan where Monahan would stay for certain. Now we dont know if MTL made an offer to Monahan Summer 2024 - which they very much have tried. Second, they didn't replace Monahan by Dach... in fact last season Dach started the season while we had Monahan too. In an ideal world, they would have prefer to have both. The mistake that was made by KH is to hang on to Dvorak/Armia over the summer and not look for a better veterant/leadership option.

Replacing Harris and Kovacevik by Hutson, Barron, Struble and Xhekaj = Gamble
There is no world in which making room for Hutson over Harris or Kovasevich is a bad thing. Now, when you look at the other LD: Harris vs Xhekaj vs Struble.... You can't affirm that Harris would fair better then the other two right now has he'ss barely an nhl D (he's not even playing all the game in CLB). So it's an easy choice: you take the intangible of both Xhakaj and Struble before Harris. Now Barron vs Kova: this is not a gamble, is mismanagement. Barron should have been traded 12 months ago.... This would have left a spot open for Kova.

Giving Montambault and Primeau the goaltending = Gamble
If there is a place where there was no way to expect the massive set back the players would have is in net. If anything, last season proved that these two could handle the pressure performance level needed by this team. I don't think anyone expected them to turn into Roy in his prime, but if they played equally as good as last season, we may not have so many blowout games.

Keeping the same coaching staff and not hiring an experience assistant coach = Gamble
Again, there is no gamble here. Last season, MTL got the all time record for game lost by 1 goal. Why would anyone think that the team was not heading in the right direction? Yeah the PP and PK where bad, but that got fix to some extend this season. So while I agree that an experience coach is needed it was also correct to expect that without any other changes in the coaching, and simply adding two key offensive players in Dach and Laine.... you may get a few more wins??

Bottom line here is that unlike a gamble, which is just hoping for the best with little effort, rational decisions where made based on info available at the time but not all of them turn out to be good. Heck... what was the mood in September? "Can this team surprise and actually make the playoff??" you dont have these kind of convo if you dont think you are building on something solid.

I don't see it as a gamble. I see it as a rebuild and growing pains come with this. Our youth and prospect pool is very strong but it will take some time before we are playoff contenders year/year.

 

[ScaryCarey31]

It more means that they are in a reasonable distance.

And the thing about the sample size is that this could be a slump at the beginning of the year and then we progress later.

After tomorrow they will have already played 7 games against teams that are top 10 in the league standings. Things will even out and as much as people are hoping for another 1st overall its not gonna happen.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Habs have Hage in the NCAA looking very good and Beck is looking like a two-way middle 6 center in the AHL right now. And nothing says that Dach isn't going to get his mojo back. He looked like a top 6 center in the 2nd half of 2022-2023 and at the start of last season before his injury.

It takes years for the majority of draftees to be impactful at the NHL level. The Habs roster is stilll mostly Bergevin's era assets. The rebuild 2022 prospects cuvée is starting their pro-career this season (except for Slaf).

Agreed. Fans/Media need to chill. We wanted to move up the standings this year but don't appear to be in the cards. That is OK... our long term vision is still #1 strategy

 

[Habs]

Agreed. Fans/Media need to chill. We wanted to move up the standings this year but don't appear to be in the cards. That is OK... our long term vision is still #1 strategy

Problem is Nick and Cole may be passed their prime by that time lol

 

[JuJu Mobb]

Primeau is Tank Commander

 

[habbubba]

It could be. We don't know if Dobes is NHL ready. Playing great in the AHl is completely different from doing great in the NHL.

You need to also consider injury. What do you if Monty get injure? You will end up with Dobes as your # 1 goalie?

The way Primeau is currently playing it's hard to believe that any random body could do worse. There are a few guys in my oldtimers league that could do a better job. There are enough GT's around that making a deal for one should not be an issue.

Unlikely he will be scooped up.

Of course he has potential to turn his career around, but then again so does every player. He's been awful, he shouldn't get much consideration.

The way he's playing, can't see how he'd be claimed.
If he does ever amount to anything through his perseverance, good for him but Montreal should not have to be patient, they've given him his share of looks.

 

[rahad]

Problem is Nick and Cole may be passed their prime by that time lol

Nick and Cole are probably not our main core. The main core now is Slaf, Demidov, Hutson, Ghule, Reinbacher, and the 2025 first round pick. Nick is also only 25 years old. He would still be a good player in 3-5 years.

 

[Habs]

Nick and Cole are probably not our main core. The main core now is Slaf, Demidov, Hutson, Ghule, Reinbacher, and the 2025 first round pick. Nick is also only 25 years old. He would still be a good player in 3-5 years.

Nick will still be good, but I lets not put Reinbacher in our core, we have no idea what he is yet. Agree with the rest though

 

[electron58]

Is it really happening??

Can't say I'm surprised, sadly .

 

[electron58]

Honestly anyone who was expecting us to be up there with the better teams in our division was drinking too much kool-aid...

I like Kool-aid.....

 

[electron58]

It's official. Mods are keeping this one open. We're done with any kind of hope, too. Whatever optimism we've had coming into this season has been eroded by this team's complete lack of compete. 15 games, and it's already over.

It's gonna be a long, long season......

 

[bsl]

As I've said many times this season, I'm ok for one more really bad year. And I knew that many here would be bummed out by another dud season, but I'm finding the sheer level of negativity hard to read over and over again.

In the last year and a half all of Suzuki, Caufield, Slaf, Reinbacher, goalie tandem, Dach, Xhekaj, and Guhle have all been forum favourites and enemy #1. Not to mention similar stuff with the guys in the A like Mailloux, Mesar, Roy and Beck.

And then we trash on any veteran in the club once they're out of their prime. I agree that Gally is overpaid now and his term too long but I just wish we'd remember what he's given our team during his career.

What our fans do to our players is really sad, and it's no wonder why we can't attract any star UFAs.

Cry me a river.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

As I've said many times this season, I'm ok for one more really bad year. And I knew that many here would be bummed out by another dud season, but I'm finding the sheer level of negativity hard to read over and over again.

In the last year and a half all of Suzuki, Caufield, Slaf, Reinbacher, goalie tandem, Dach, Xhekaj, and Guhle have all been forum favourites and enemy #1. Not to mention similar stuff with the guys in the A like Mailloux, Mesar, Roy and Beck.

And then we trash on any veteran in the club once they're out of their prime. I agree that Gally is overpaid now and his term too long but I just wish we'd remember what he's given our team during his career.

What our fans do to our players is really sad, and it's no wonder why we can't attract any star UFAs.

im sure typing our problems with the team on a hockey forum doesnt change the fact that nobody in the locker room gives a flying f***.

using ''fans'' not being able to attract UFA is a cope.
UFA dont come here because the team is bad , good players who are Ufas are not looking for a bottom 5 team for their mid-end career.

 

[Tabarouette]

im sure typing our problems with the team on a hockey forum doesnt change the fact that nobody in the locker room gives a flying f***.

using ''fans'' not being able to attract UFA is a cope.
UFA dont come here because the team is bad , good players who are Ufas are not looking for a bottom 5 team for their mid-end career.

*players choose to go play in Tampa where they can get to the rink in shorts and pay no taxes*

How can the fans do THIS to these poor players

 

[bsl]

Patrick Laine will break the tank !

That could happen.

This thread depresses me. I refuse to cheer for losses any more, don't get me wrong, if the whole season completely goes to shit I'll gladly take a top pick, some might even say it may be best for us to do so, but I can't stomach hoping for losses anymore.

I honestly don't think we're as bad as our play and record indicates and fully expect a turnaround at some point. I'm gonna just wait and see where the chips fall, if it happens it happens, that's fine, but there's no way I'm rooting for us to bottom out again.

Nope, not happening.

Go Habs!

The worry is that Suzuki and cc are just not 1st line players on a contender. The Habs are running out of time already in this rebuild.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

*players choose to go play in Tampa where they can get to the rink in shorts and pay no taxes*

How can the fans do THIS to these poor players

Taxes sure but that's not always the issue. I mean You never see a top UFA joining a bottom scrap team. Like let's say if Aho was Ufa. You think id sign Colorado for 10m or Montreal for 10m if he looks at both lineup