Official Tank Thread

[The Gr8 Dane]

Yeah but it kind of ignore their previous failed rebuild. They drafted 5th in 2008 (Schenn) and 7th in 2009 (Kadri) and then in 2010 and 2011 they traded their 1st round pick for Kessel which would have bee a 2nd overall (Seguin) in 2010 and 9th overall (Dougie Hamilton) in 2011.

So i think it's very misleading to say they rebuilded in 4 years. They started a rebuild in 2008 (Schenn) and 2009 (Kadri) it failed with the acquisition of a young Kessel for an 2nd overall (Seguin) and a 9th overall (Dougie Hamilton) and then they started a 2nd rebuild in 2012 after the first one failed miserably.

Toronto was not intentionally *rebuilding* back then though , that's like saying our rebuild started with the KK draft. Or the Galchenyuk one , our management was just garbage and expected to make the playoffs in both of those years. Toronto's management were garbage they weren't actively rebuilding the team through the draft like they did when they really started tanking for the more recent picks they got , or like we are doing now

 

[WeThreeKings]

Toronto was not intentionally *rebuilding* back then though , that's like saying our rebuild started with the KK draft. Or the Galchenyuk one , our management was just garbage and expected to make the playoffs in both of those years. Toronto's management were garbage they weren't actively rebuilding the team through the draft like they did when they really started tanking for the more recent picks they got , or like we are doing now

This is correct, they had Bergevin management until Lou came in with Shanahan. They had high draft picks like Kadri and Rielly contributing, where our high picks like KK and Galchenyuk were long busted by the time we started our rebuild.

However, the Toronto rebuild being one of the fastest is still not an indication that doing it faster means it's successful. In reality, the Toronto rebuild remains a massive failure until that core actually competes. They are the Buffalo Sabres, only instead of the Sabres never making the playoffs, they never get out of round 1.

 

[Tabarouette]

Toronto tanked and immediately got rewarded with 3 future HOFers

we just keep tanking on years where the best player available is Yannick Perrault, idk what to tell you other than we're cursed

 

[junyab]

Nothing like exposing a playe'rs flaws when showcasing him, eh?

For sure, but doesn't make it untrue.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Toronto tanked and immediately got rewarded with 3 future HOFers

we just keep tanking on years where the best player available is Yannick Perrault, idk what to tell you other than we're cursed

And yet their playoff record is vastly worse than ours in the last 20 years.

I wouldn’t use the term ‘rewarded’ so much as cursed. Like we’re cursed with injuries and never getting a star forward for 30 years plus.

I still like our curse better but I’m definitely not bragging

 

[Habs]

And yet their playoff record is vastly worse than ours in the last 20 years.

I wouldn’t use the term ‘rewarded’ so much as cursed. Like we’re cursed with injuries and never getting a star forward for 30 years plus.

I still like our curse better but I’m definitely not bragging

The core in Toronto is soft, it's always been the issue. Marners, AM, Nylander... great talents but soft easy to dominate physically. They have never proven to want to go through hell to win a round.

 

[Kosseca]

The real comparator for us is the teams around us who started their rebuild around the same time.. and there's many of them that started earlier and are within points of us at the bottom.

We are not off-track, we are on-track, there are some outliers like Washington/Toronto/Pittsburgh who got out of their rebuild faster than others, but those all had one thing in common - they won 1OA when there was a franchise to generational talent available.

I would add that even if you compare with team that started their rebuild around the same time as MTL, each team will need to follow it's own path. There are so many variable that one can't control like injuries and quality of draft year and to some extent the player development. In the end, progress can only be measures against yourself.

While MTL won in Buf (I would argue that Buff lost, not MTL won), this team is still very much a train wreck. Too many things going wrong at the same time and like a medic would do in the field, you triage the problems to address the one more urgent and critical ones. This may force you to let those who can't survive die and right now I see being in the "mix" a collateral victim of the overall situation.

Management shouldn't be trying to be in the mix after looking at the 16 first game, they should look take the same approach as last year and work on developing players and identifying organizational weakness.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Yeah but it kind of ignore their previous failed rebuild. They drafted 5th in 2008 (Schenn) and 7th in 2009 (Kadri) and then in 2010 and 2011 they traded their 1st round pick for Kessel which would have bee a 2nd overall (Seguin) in 2010 and 9th overall (Dougie Hamilton) in 2011.

So i think it's very misleading to say they rebuilded in 4 years. They started a rebuild in 2008 (Schenn) and 2009 (Kadri) it failed with the acquisition of a young Kessel for an 2nd overall (Seguin) and a 9th overall (Dougie Hamilton) and then they started a 2nd rebuild in 2012 after the first one failed miserably.

Yeah, Toronto took about ten years. I mean, after the lockout they weren't any good until they got Matthews.

Rebuilds take time, because it is hard to find the right stars.

Reality is there is no guaranteed timeline for a rebuild.

Media will create talking points, but that's their job. They need to talk about something. Doesn't mean that we need to listen to them.

 

[Tabarouette]

And yet their playoff record is vastly worse than ours in the last 20 years.

I wouldn’t use the term ‘rewarded’ so much as cursed. Like we’re cursed with injuries and never getting a star forward for 30 years plus.

I still like our curse better but I’m definitely not bragging

I dislike this argument a lot because it implies the only measure of success is winning a cup, nothing guarantees playoff success in this league sadly, there are hundreds of great teams who never won, that's just the way this sport goes

To me success is becoming a real contender, meaning not a bubble team, and they are a contender despite their own curses. Their current problems aren't really related to their rebuild anymore, they succeeded at rebuilding

I'd f***ing LOVE to be cursed with a Matthews my guy

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

The core in Toronto is soft, it's always been the issue. Marners, AM, Nylander... great talents but soft easy to dominate physically. They have never proven to want to go through hell to win a round.

As well as having dog shit defence but still to have that much fire power and only win ONE ROUND against a team that went to the finals 3 years in a row and their goalie couldn’t stop a beach ball is actually insane.

Nylander shows up at least. But Matthews could score a 100 in a season, I still could never take on that salary for what he brings in the post season. Let alone Marner.

 

[Tabarouette]

we've had that argument last year haha, idk man people not willing to take a Matthews over what we have baffles me, the guy has a non-zero chance at beating now-almost-ovechkin's goal record by the time it's all said and done like... Hell yeah i'd take him over what we have, some takes feel like stockholm syndrome or homerism or both I swear

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I dislike this argument a lot because it implies the only measure of success is winning a cup, nothing guarantees playoff success in this league sadly, there are hundreds of great teams who never won, that's just the way this sport goes

To me success is becoming a real contender, meaning not a bubble team, and they are a contender despite their own curses. Their current problems aren't really related to their rebuild anymore, they succeeded at rebuilding

I'd f***ing LOVE to be cursed with a Matthews my guy

I’m just talking about playoff series wins in the last 20 years. Not even Cups.

They certainly didn’t succeed. I do know what you’re saying though. They do have that firepower where they still could make a run. But they’ve invested an absurd amount of money into a pretty gutless core. Tavares contract coming off the books should help but they still have to fill that spot. They’re D is absurdly awful and has been since I’ve been alive.

Matthews?!? With that cap hit and mediocre playoff performances? His bizarre kind of bridge contract? I couldn’t think of a worse superstar in the league to have honestly. Maybe…Marner? lol Pretty heartless. The both of them.

we've had that argument last year haha, idk man people not willing to take a Matthews over what we have baffles me, the guy has a non-zero chance at beating now-almost-ovechkin's goal record by the time it's all said and done like... Hell yeah i'd take him over what we have, some takes feel like stockholm syndrome or homerism or both I swear

Give me Nylander. Shows up when it counts.

Keep Nostrils away from my Habs!

 

[Tabarouette]

I’m just talking about playoff series wins in the last 20 years. Not even Cups.

They certainly didn’t succeed. I do know what you’re saying though. They do have that firepower where they still could make a run. But they’ve invested an absurd amount of money into a pretty gutless core. Tavares contract coming off the books should help but they still have to fill that spot. They’re D is absurdly awful and has been since I’ve been alive.

Matthews?!? With that cap hit and mediocre playoff performances? His bizarre kind of bridge contract? I couldn’t think of a worse superstar in the league to have honestly. Maybe…Marner? lol Pretty heartless. The both of them.

All 3 are nearly PPG in the playoffs! They are soft, they do look like they checkout at time, they have issues I agree. But I think some people might have a misconception between rebuilding and tooling

They tanked and got their strong core, strong enough to carry them to being contenders, that's a successful rebuild to me period. You're then supposed to tool around that core, and that tooling has to be catered to your needs, they need leadership and they need vets and grit because they already have the insane offensive fancy fire power. They keep f***ing that up, that's on them, that's on the tooling!

 

[Habs]

we've had that argument last year haha, idk man people not willing to take a Matthews over what we have baffles me, the guy has a non-zero chance at beating now-almost-ovechkin's goal record by the time it's all said and done like... Hell yeah i'd take him over what we have, some takes feel like stockholm syndrome or homerism or both I swear

not sure many are saying we wouldn't have him, just pointing out you can't have 3 uninterested star players like him on a team and expect to win a cup.

 

[rahad]

Primeau is great for the tank but I'd like to see the Laval boys get a look,would losing Primeau to waivers really be a loss?

It could be. We don't know if Dobes is NHL ready. Playing great in the AHl is completely different from doing great in the NHL.

You need to also consider injury. What do you if Monty get injure? You will end up with Dobes as your # 1 goalie?

 

[Tabarouette]

not sure many are saying we wouldn't have him, just pointing out you can't have 3 uninterested star players like him on a team and expect to win a cup.

yeah I saw that the last 5 games (before the one we all missed because we're working on mondays) where our first line looked more interested in smelling flowers than playing hockey

heyo

 

[Habs]

yeah I saw that the last 5 games (before the one we all missed because we're working on mondays) where our first line looked more interested in smelling flowers than playing hockey

heyo

Well I don't think we have what it takes either, not even close. Our core is small, ineffective and perimeter players. Slaf isn't soft, Nick and Cole are and I don't know what Dach is anymore. We may be an entertaining team, but won't be confused for a deep playoff running club for a long long long time.

 

[Tabarouette]

Well I don't think we have what it takes either, not even close. Our core is small, ineffective and perimeter players. Slaf isn't soft, Nick and Cole are and I don't know what Dach is anymore. We may be an entertaining team, but won't be confused for a deep playoff running club for a long long long time.

I agree but I don't like saying it too loud because it's a hard pill to swallow

Simply still no game breakers that's just how things are. Demidov is a good bet, but you know, impress me kid, show me what you got. Hutson has a chance to turn into a good thing too, but same deal

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

All 3 are nearly PPG in the playoffs! They are soft, they do look like they checkout at time, they have issues I agree. But I think some people might have a misconception between rebuilding and tooling

They tanked and got their strong core, strong enough to carry them to being contenders, that's a successful rebuild to me period. You're then supposed to tool around that core, and that tooling has to be catered to your needs, they need leadership and they need vets and grit because they already have the insane offensive fancy fire power. They keep f***ing that up, that's on them, that's on the tooling!

They aren’t surrounded well for sure. We agree on that.

But they aren’t paid ‘nearly ppg’ money. Koivu was nearly PPG come playoffs in a way less scoring era.

You think if they were better surrounded they’d win a Cup. That’s possible. I’m not saying you’re out to lunch there.

But still the early returns of that core has been dreadful. Even with how shoddy they’ve been surrounded they should still be able to win more than one round in like 6 or 7 years. Matthews and Marner rarely show that extra playoff gear that’s needed. And that can easily be displayed even without being well surrounded.

 

[HabsCode]

Bottom of the standing league wide, worst goal differential, second worst goals against, truly a thing of beauty.

 

[ReHabs]

I'd f***ing LOVE to be cursed with a Matthews my guy

You also wanna be cursed with years of 1st round exits? No way. No no no way.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

You guys keep talking about how Marner Matthews and Billiam are losers but you guys fail to realise its the jersey they wear and not the players themselves.


Give them some MTL tap water and its not even close man , I saw Paciorrety and DD win more rounds than these losers what are we talking about here.

There's no passion ingrained in the maple leafs , its a coorporate bieber loving fest.

AM34 would get rocks thrown at him for scoring 50+ a season and disappearing in the playoffs as hard as he has here.


Leafs are terrified of moving on from Marner and do you blame them? The kid is gonna lift a stanley cup on another team and go 2 ppg on a run while taking pucks to the face if they do trade him , its the jersey man , its cursed

 

[BozoTheClown]

Well I don't think we have what it takes either, not even close. Our core is small, ineffective and perimeter players. Slaf isn't soft, Nick and Cole are and I don't know what Dach is anymore. We may be an entertaining team, but won't be confused for a deep playoff running club for a long long long time.

There is just something about Dach I am not too keen on.

This picture and this play.

 

[morhilane]

Dunno since the first one ended in 2011 and the 2nd one started in 2012 i'd say it's the same rebuild since i mean 2012 comes right after 2011. They just did a clean slate by trading Schenn, Kessel and Kadri.

Wouldn't we call that a rebuild reset?

Habs aren't there (yet), unless we decide that 2018 was the beginning, so 2022 was the reset.

 

[LaP]

Wouldn't we call that a rebuild reset?

Habs aren't there (yet), unless we decide that 2018 was the beginning, so 2022 was the reset.

No it's more a management reset you could argue 2018 was our beginning and 2022 was a management reset, Without covid 2020 would have been a high draft pick and likely 2021 too. But anyway we should give more than 3 drafts and summer to KH.