[Official] Fire/Tolerate Travis Green Thread

[Hit the post]

It would be interesting to poll current GM's around the league what they think of that trade.

Didnt Polak get like essentially two 2nds for the Leafs? Never let it be said that NHL GMs always make the right choices .

 

[Hit the post]

Agreed, never once defended this current crop of D simply disputing that we have NOT given up much assets for the list provided earlier.

I dispute McCann's value plummeted that much at the time he was dealt.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Didnt Polak get like essentially two 2nds for the Leafs? Never let it be said that NHL GMs always make the right choices .

You basically answered my question..Never underestimate the value of an NHL D-man.

 

[clunk]

Nov 2018 join date

Makes more sense now

He always outs himself so quickly. He never knows how to be subtle cause he gets riled up so much in jumping in to defend his hero in the front office.

 

[WTG]

Nope not "rational" anything simply disputing some of these "assets" we gave up which were few.

As I already mentioned the Kesler trade is a bad example (agreed, we didn't get enough for him) but he literally handed the team a grenade with the pin pulled and made demands. When a GM is in that position they rarely win (ask Ottawa).

I actually agree with a lot of what you commented on, the fact we need a solid Defence to compete - this current crop is terrible but who are all these top-4 D that are being missed out on? High end D FAs don't typically sign with rebuilding teams so have to do it the hard way by drafting or trading for low end depth players that MIGHT turn into something decent.

Glad we can find middle ground.
I genuinely think that Benning's inability to bring in top 4 defenseman hurts the team. Look at the players Benning has targeted and they all kind of fallen flat.

The most we've given up in assets we have targeted Sbisa and Gudbranson. These are not the type of defenders we need and people knew that going into those trades. As for top-4 D that Benning has targeted in FA, we know he was in on the Alzner


I think it really comes down to the idea that the Canucks NEED someone who can find good defenseman and I do not think Benning can do that based on his past pedigree of bringing in defenseman and defenseman he is reportedly targeting.

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

I dispute McCann's value plummeted that much at the time he was dealt.

His value wasn’t that high to begin with, he was getting decent minutes/shifts just didn’t produce or capitalize.

 

[Hit the post]

His value wasn’t that high to begin with, he was getting decent minutes/shifts just didn’t produce or capitalize.

What kind of production were you expecting from a 19 year old averaging 12.5 minutes per game in his rookie season?

 

[geebaan]

What kind of production were you expecting from a 19 year old averaging 12.5 minutes per game in his rookie season?

Clearly Petterson level or bust

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

What kind of production were you expecting from a 19 year old averaging 12.5 minutes per game in his rookie season?

He started October chipping in with 5 goals and then scored 4 more the rest of the year including 2 in November and December when the playoff pack separates. The team likely saw a player that can score in the early season but faltered when the pressure of regular season play kicked in.

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

Clearly Petterson level or bust

What a ridiculous statement was expecting at least more points than Bartkowski.

 

[Hit the post]

What a ridiculous statement was expecting at least more points than Bartkowski.

Or the guy drafted higher than him.

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

Or the guy drafted higher than him.

Wow, it was intended as a joke but you realize “the guy drafted ahead”...who we kept...is on pace for a decent season and McCann is still stuck in neutral...lol.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Wow, it was intended as a joke but you realize “the guy drafted ahead”...who we kept...is on pace for a decent season and McCann is still stuck in neutral...lol.

Seems to be producing pretty well with Vinnie hurt in Florida.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

This thread was largely an overreaction (I admit I’m guilty here) to Travis Green discouraging our players from retaliating on Matheson’s hit on Petey. Now that I’ve mostly cooled off and think about the job Travis Green has done I’m satisfied and very happy with the progress he’s made with some of our young players like Nick Goldobin and Jake Virtanen. He shouldn’t be fired, I think he’s one of the better coaches around to grow with such a young team and I think there’s a good chance he wins Jack Adams in his career. I love the way he has our boys playing, the effort he has them putting in, and how he lets them be creative offensively and how exciting the team plays. If I could I would apologize directly to Green for getting mad at him earlier. I’m starting to really like him as a coach.

 

[Soups On]

I didn’t even mention Gudbranson. But yes, he sucks.

We have 2 quality defenders in the organization. One is 33 by the end of the season and a pending UFA. The other is injury prone and will probably be dealt in the next year or so before he leaves as a UFA.

We have one very good defensive prospect, who is 5’9 160 and probably going to have major defensive issues when he turns pro next year. Our only other defensive prospect who is remotely close to the NHL is just a complete mess defensively in the AHL right now.

There is nothing in Utica. The best defender down there is Dylan Blujus, who doesn’t even have a Canucks contract.

This is the definition of a complete mess, and is going to get worse before it gets better if/when Edler and Tanev depart.

And this is what happens when your braindead GM who can’t evaluate talent goes 5 years without bringing a quality defender info the organization. And this franchise isn’t going to turn a corner and isn’t trending up when the blueline is in this state.

And yes, we got Pettersson by accident.

Hey come on MS give my boy Hutton some credit here

 

[Hit the post]

Wow, it was intended as a joke but you realize “the guy drafted ahead”...who we kept...is on pace for a decent season and McCann is still stuck in neutral...lol.

Amazing that a player drafted 6th overall is progressing better than one that was drafted 24th overall (though the later still has more points to date) - not to mention one has an "easier role" [winger vs center]. Better to be in neutral than have a player that is quicksand (Guds). It isn't a Virtanen vs McCann question; it's a McCann vs a $4+ million dollar injury prone #6 D. LOL indeed.

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

Amazing that a player drafted 6th overall is progressing better than one that was drafted 24th overall (though the later still has more points to date) - not to mention one has an "easier role" [winger vs center]. Better to be in neutral than have a player that is quicksand (Guds). It isn't a Virtanen vs McCann question; it's a McCann vs a $4+ million dollar injury prone #6 D. LOL indeed.

We are now comparing Guddy to McCann...that is like arguing over brands of light beer when they are both crap.

 

[WTG]

We are now comparing Guddy to McCann...that is like arguing over brands of light beer when they are both crap.

You can say that now, but at the time McCann was not crap. Certainly Benning did not see it that way.
Benning: Hemmed and hawed over trading McCann - NEWS 1130

"I really believe that McCann will be a top 6 forward in this league."
So to Benning he had given up a young 20 year old future top 6 forward for Gudbranson. That's the value he placed in McCann, which would be higher than a regular 24th overall pick. Plus on top of that we gave up the 33rd overall pick, which is basically a 1st rounder.

Really, we did give up a whole of a hell lot in that trade for Gudbranson. I'm sure if Benning was better at evaluating defenseman we could have gotten a better defenseman than Gudbranson.

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

So to Benning he had given up a young 20 year old future top 6 forward for Gudbranson.

Thanks for the link a good listen and certainly supports your assessment well. The rationale he used was "we have depth at centre and felt it was worth it for a young top-4 D".

At the time we had Hank, Horvat and Sutter so I see the logic but agree that if you are going to pull of this move make it an actual Top-4 D. On paper who wouldn't take a chance on a 6'5" young D just next time check if he can skate and pass.

Of all the reasons we could be making for Benning doing a bad job this is lower on the radar IMO...Eriksson signing is number one, drafting OJ over Tkachuk, JV over Nylander, long term deals for 4th line players Schaller/Rousel/Beagle, not getting anything for Hamhuis...there are plenty. We just all forgot because of EP fever (place myself in that category).

The draft picks are difficult to argue since we have no way of knowing which player we would have taken...rumour has it JB was high on Debricant and if that is true...ouch.

 

[Intangibos]

He started October chipping in with 5 goals and then scored 4 more the rest of the year including 2 in November and December when the playoff pack separates. The team likely saw a player that can score in the early season but faltered when the pressure of regular season play kicked in.

Doesn't say much about Gaudette who can't even produce before the pressure of regular season play kicked in

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

Doesn't say much about Gaudette who can't even produce before the pressure of regular season play kicked in

Is Gaudette being developed as a top-6 forward?

 

[Intangibos]

Is Gaudette being developed as a top-6 forward?

Is McCann a top-6 or bust player? He's been playing in a bottom 6 role in the NHL for a while now.

Gaudette's production doesn't even cut it for a 3rd liner guy. Your point was about a player's scoring drying up in his rookie season and Gaudette has never shown to be anything but a desert.

 

[Nomobo]

Just thought I’d bump this to see if recent play has changed anyone’s mind.
In my mind, he’s the glue that holds this fragile team together at the moment.

 

[DL44]

Just thought I’d bump this to see if recent play has changed anyone’s mind.
In my mind, he’s the glue that holds this fragile team together at the moment.

He's ruining Gaudette... I think.

 

[Nomobo]

He's ruining Gaudette... I think.

Yup, just like he did with Hutton.