Official Calder Thread 2019-2020

[Cousin Eddie]

I'm very surprised that there are still narratives that Makar is a tier higher than Hughes.

What an insult to the intelligence of the posters on this board.

Makar is fantastic but Hughes has literally out-done him every step of the way.

17 yrs old season

Makar- Alberta Junior League
Quinn Hughes- NCAA- 29 pts in 37 games

18 yrs old-season

Makar - NCAA - Makar 21 pts in 34 Games
Hughes - NCAA- 33 pts in 32 games/ 5 NHL games 3pts


19 years old- season

Makar- NCAA - 49 pts in 41 Games
Hughes- NHL- 44 pts, 4th in NHL Dman scoring - **Season Still Going**


20 yr old season-

Makar- 42 pts ** Season Still Going **
Hughes- ????????


Currently:

Makar has been 21% involved in Colorodo's goals scored.

Hughes has been 24% involved in Vancouver's goals scored.


The Calder is meaningless in terms of who will have a better career between these 2. The Calder will come down to straight production at the end of the year.

Nobody believes this anymore. Just people like you posting this crap about mythical ideas that no longer exist.

Peoole did believe Makar was in another tier and it’s because he was. These arguments were taking place prior to the new year. There was a point in November where Makar was on pace for 21 more goals (and points) than Hughes while playing a shutdown role with Zadorov. Talking about a projected 25 goal, 80 point defenseman vs a 8-10 goal, 60 point projected defenseman (I forget the exact numbers). That’s a very very different tier.

Since then, Hughes has improved more and more and eliminated that argument. I can’t speak for everyone else but I was one of the ones calling him on a different tier but even when doing so continuously said that could change in the future and gave Hughes the benefit of the doubt for being a year younger.

So no, nobody believes Makar is in a different tier right now. Keep pushing your narrative though.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

Nobody believes this anymore. Just people like you posting this crap about mythical ideas that no longer exist.

Peoole did believe Makar was in another tier and it’s because he was. These arguments were taking place prior to the new year. There was a point in November where Makar was on pace for 21 more goals (and points) than Hughes while playing a shutdown role with Zadorov. Talking about a projected 25 goal, 80 point defenseman vs a 8-10 goal, 60 point projected defenseman (I forget the exact numbers). That’s a very very different tier.

Since then, Hughes has improved more and more and eliminated that argument. I can’t speak for everyone else but I was one of the ones calling him on a different tier but even when doing so continuously said that could change in the future and gave Hughes the benefit of the doubt for being a year younger.

So no, nobody believes Makar is in a different tier right now. Keep pushing your narrative though.

thats quite a long winded way of saying "i was wrong"

Either way, both fan bases are in for a ride for what these 2 will bring to their team.

 

[Absolut]

I think Hughes is the front-runner. He's been phenomenal, and his improvement is very impressive.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

thats quite a long winded way of saying "i was wrong"

Either way, both fan bases are in for a ride for what these 2 will bring to their team.

What was I wrong about?

 

[a mangy Meowth]

What an insult to the intelligence of the posters on this board.

Makar is fantastic but Hughes has literally out-done him every step of the way.

This sort of frame-shifting nonsense is stuff I hear in AM34 threads and people give them all kinds of crap for it. Stop shifting their development years around to suit a narrative.

They are both first-season NHLers this year and will play out their careers at the same time alongside one another. Unless you want to make this near-bad faith argument every time these players are compared (it's gonna be a LOT), I would just compare the current seasons. Otherwise you're just muddying the waters. It's a really cool tidbit that Hughes is like 11.5 months younger than Makar. If Hughes has a few points lead on Makar, I suspect it will be a main talking point in favor of Hughes for Calder. But let's be honest, these are comparable players right now and everyone enters the NHL on their own path.

I watch opponent broadcasts whenever I can. My impression is that people ARE aware of the missed games right now. Just last night on TSN's broadcast they talked about QH taking the points lead over Makar and how great a race it was. Then right at the end he made a point about "Makar doing it in 10 less games". Obviously things can change, but I don't think journalists are going to throw out the games played argument if they are within 1-2 of each other.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

If you were to make a development chart of Hughes and Makar side by side then Makar's would poorly compare to Hughes' trajectory.

What a bizarre way of thinking about things. That chart would be absolutely useless. You couldn't use it to predict anything for the future.

When people talk about these star players they talk about what they could be in 2/3 years. Not how fast they got into the league from college. People look at their skill sets, results, etc.

Makar and Hughes have special unique characteristics that make them so good in different ways. Hughes has the puck a lot, and the results show that he is a huge positive on the Canucks. I think when people look at Makar they see a player that really doesn't exist in the NHL right now. No Dman has a shot like his (imo). He is an amazingly explosive skater. And he's AGGRESSIVE. He's got this killer instinct that I don't see in Hughes (a smooth operator). I think people salivate at the idea of what Makar will look like when he adds 10-12 pounds and gets truly comfortable. Quinn does things with the puck that Cale cannot. Makar brings offense in every major way . He's got IMO the best Dman wrister in the game. If not now then soon. He's got an eye getting shots through crowds and bar-downs them regularly. He's got a one-timer that he hasn't shown off much yet, but it's sick. Makar also creates almost a breakaway per game, as a Dman. He's just the most aggressive offensive D I've ever seen. He can try to make what seems to be insanely risky plays, fails, and then he outskates everyone and he's the first one back. I'm really not even exaggerating that. It's happened multiple times.

At this point I really couldn't care less if Makar gets the trophy. Hughes has definitely done enough to have earned the victory in my eyes, if he keeps steady.

I can't wait to see that killer instinct once he gets comfortable and asserts himself like he seems to always do.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

I think Hughes is the front-runner. He's been phenomenal, and his improvement is very impressive.

As a Canuck fan i dont think Hughes is a clear cut front runner. but i also dont think Makar is a clear cut front runner anymore.

Neck and neck right now.

I can only speak for Hughes having watched every shift he has played, he has turned it on to another level since christmas and then another level since All-Star break. Its almost like he received a boost of confidence being around all the Stars and confirmation that his talent is elite.

I know we rightfully mock the All-Star-Game being a circus and are done for the kids, but we probably also minimize the importance and value it has for young players and what it can do to their confidence.

 

[Teflon Jim]

This sort of frame-shifting nonsense is stuff I hear in AM34 threads and people give them all kinds of crap for it. Stop shifting their development years around to suit a narrative.

They are both first-season NHLers this year and will play out their careers at the same time alongside one another. Unless you want to make this near-bad faith argument every time these players are compared (it's gonna be a LOT), I would just compare the current seasons. Otherwise you're just muddying the waters. It's a really cool tidbit that Hughes is like 11.5 months younger than Makar. If Hughes has a few points lead on Makar, I suspect it will be a main talking point in favor of Hughes for Calder. But let's be honest, these are comparable players right now and everyone enters the NHL on their own path.

I watch opponent broadcasts whenever I can. My impression is that people ARE aware of the missed games right now. Just last night on TSN's broadcast they talked about QH taking the points lead over Makar and how great a race it was. Then right at the end he made a point about "Makar doing it in 10 less games". Obviously things can change, but I don't think journalists are going to throw out the games played argument if they are within 1-2 of each other.

If the ten game arguement flies then the one year argument should work too.
I'm expecting total points will be the winner in the end.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Hughes has been the hotter of the two for a while now. I think though that he needs to keep it up and win the points race by at least 4 points to take it. Definitely can be done.
One of the closest races we’ve seen in a while.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

If the ten game arguement flies then the one year argument should work too.
I'm expecting total points will be the winner in the end.

I don't really agree with the first part of what you said. I don't think they're the same thing at all - playing 10 more games in the same time frame is a pretty significant advantage to me compared to age, in terms of being able to put up points. As we go on with the season, it wanes a bit but I think it's much more substantive than how old they are.

Ultimately though, yeah. I doubt they end up side by side (thinking Hughes ends with 4 more points or so). So I too think that raw point total will decide it.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

Hughes has been the hotter of the two for a while now. I think though that he needs to keep it up and win the points race by at least 4 points to take it. Definitely can be done.
One of the closest races we’ve seen in a while.

I think other factors will come into play that will help Hughes win if its a tight race.

1. Hughes doesnt have a HART candidate in Mackinnon he is playing alongside with
2. If Canucks win the division or even make the playoffs then thats a massive Plus for Quinn's case in winning the Calder considering the Canucks were considered to be a bubble team or worse this year.
3. Voters will be persuaded by the narrative of back to to back Calders, not since 1966



Crazy to think how fantastic this rookie class is, and thats without Jack and Kappo being prominent.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

Hughes has been the hotter of the two for a while now. I think though that he needs to keep it up and win the points race by at least 4 points to take it. Definitely can be done.
One of the closest races we’ve seen in a while.

Last 13 games

Hughes: 14 pts in 13 games - +4
Makar : 11 pts in 13 games- +4

 

[Mac Attack]

I remember getting HFassaulted for having Quinn Hughes above Dahlin in one of my early draft rankings. I ended up moving Dahlin and Svech slightly above Hughes, but Hughes looks more dynamic than Dahlin right now. He’s my pick.

Also got laughed at for having Makar at 2 in his draft year.

What a Calder race!

It's time for you to begin your career as a pro scout! That's impressive.

 

[Muffin]

Last 13 games

Hughes: 14 pts in 13 games - +4
Makar : 11 pts in 13 games- +4

I mean it's pretty convenience to include his last 3 points game to skew the numbers. Take out the 3 point game and they're literally neck and neck. Why nitpick a small sample size when you can look at the whole season?

 

[FreeMcdavid]

I mean it's pretty convenience to include his last 3 points game to skew the numbers. Take out the 3 point game and they're literally neck and neck.

LOL are you listening to yourself?

you want me to exclude Quinn's last game because he got 3 points so that it can make Makar look better? Common man not everything is an attack on Makar. You were litterally responding to a conversation i was having with someone who expressed that Quinn has been hotter lately. How can i take away last games performance based on that parameter?

 

[Bonham]

I mean it's pretty convenience to include his last 3 points game to skew the numbers. Take out the 3 point game and they're literally neck and neck. Why nitpick a small sample size when you can look at the whole season?

Why would you remove his 3 point game? That makes no sense...those points count in the scoring race.

I do agree that they are neck and neck and said from the start that it was wrong to consider them on separate tiers.

 

[Muffin]

No I'm trying to say it's convenience to put out a stat like that after a 3 points game. Obviously a 3 point game is going to skew a small sample size like that. Why even nitpick a stat like that? Calder is for the whole year
Hughes 44p in 56gp
Makar 42p in 47gp
What's the point of a 13 game sample size other than to try and make Hughes look good?

 

[FreeMcdavid]

No I'm trying to say it's convenience to put out a stat like that after a 3 points game. Why even nitpick a stat like that? Calder is for the whole year
Hughes 44p in 56gp
Makar 42p in 47gp
What's the point of a 13 game sample size other than to try and make Hughes look good?

because you jumped into a conversation that was about Hughes has been hotter than Makar lately. Its called a trend in sports. What are you so worked up about? because we werent talking about the whole year?

including a players stat from his last game is not nitpicking, thats probably the opposite of nitpicking.

 

[Muffin]

because you jumped into a conversation that was about Hughes has been hotter than Makar lately. Its called a trend in sports. What are you so worked up about? because we werent talking about the whole year?

including a players stat from his last game is not nitpicking, thats probably the opposite of nitpicking.

Definitely don't remember saying Makar's been hotter lately.

I jumped in because you used dumb things like age as an argument lol. You should be a Leafs fan they love using that argument for Matthews>MacKinnon.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

Why would you remove his 3 point game? That makes no sense...those points count in the scoring race.

I do agree that they are neck and neck and said from the start that it was wrong to consider them on separate tiers.

LMAO he wants to remove the last games for Hughes and Makar because Hughes had 3 points and Makar had 0 even though the discussion was about the trend that Hughes has been hotter lately.

I dont even know why i entertain this craziness.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

Definitely don't remember saying Makar's been hotter lately.

because nobody said that because its not true.

you decided to come mid conversation i was having with someone who expressed that Hughes has been hotter than Makar lately, in which i provided the stats over the last 13 games ( a month) to back up his factual true claim.

 

[BCNate]

I

This sort of frame-shifting nonsense is stuff I hear in AM34 threads and people give them all kinds of crap for it. Stop shifting their development years around to suit a narrative.

They are both first-season NHLers this year and will play out their careers at the same time alongside one another. Unless you want to make this near-bad faith argument every time these players are compared (it's gonna be a LOT), I would just compare the current seasons. Otherwise you're just muddying the waters. It's a really cool tidbit that Hughes is like 11.5 months younger than Makar. If Hughes has a few points lead on Makar, I suspect it will be a main talking point in favor of Hughes for Calder. But let's be honest, these are comparable players right now and everyone enters the NHL on their own path.

I watch opponent broadcasts whenever I can. My impression is that people ARE aware of the missed games right now. Just last night on TSN's broadcast they talked about QH taking the points lead over Makar and how great a race it was. Then right at the end he made a point about "Makar doing it in 10 less games". Obviously things can change, but I don't think journalists are going to throw out the games played argument if they are within 1-2 of each other.

I agree that the age argument means very little. Once you are in the best league in the world, you are judged on your performance in the best league in the world. Whether you are 20 or 21 or 22, you are expected to perform.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

Definitely don't remember saying Makar's been hotter lately.

I jumped in because you used dumb things like age as an argument lol. You should be a Leafs fan they love using that argument for Matthews>MacKinnon.

Age wont be a factor in the Calder Race. Ive already acknowledged this. Its whoever has a better year and a better effect on their team.


However Age can be used as a factor on who has a higher ceiling and can possibly have a better career between Makar and Hughes.

Since we cant predict the future, we have to base everything as "all things equal"

The simple fact is , Hughes has been the better and more advanced player in each and every level at the same year. Based on those developmental trajection, "if all things stay the same" Then Hughes has a higher ceiling and will out produce Makar when their careers are over.

Obviously this is just projections and Makar can take a massive developmental leap next year that Quinn cant quite reach. Thats the future, i cant make stuff up, all i can go with is what they've done , and how they have been developing as of today.

 

[Grub]

It’s all fun and games now that both fan bases are attacking each other and competitively monitoring how much points both players have...

Just wait till these 2 sign their extensions. We’ll be united again and comfort each other at the record cap numbers.

 

[Canucks LB]