Official 2025 NHL DRAFT Thread

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Both of those guys were roughly 1 PPG during their scoring peaks in that lower era.

If you really believe all of that, you should have him 1OA and it shouldn’t be close. Bedard, Michkov, Celebrini, etc are less than 50/50 to have Kopitar’s regular season career.
Have him 3rd!

Think Schaefer has Star 1D potential and Misa a multiple time 40 goal scoring centre.

Again, the whole point of this conversation being, alot people view Desnoyers as a future selke level centre. Him going top 5 isn't unreasonable at all.

It's not like taking him over Hagens is like taking Luchanko over Buium lol
 
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The big problem with Grant is his obnoxious personality and pettiness. His scouting takes are fine, even though he tends to embellish what he did with the Habs scouting-wise.
 
I'd go Misa, Schaefer, then unsure among Hagens/Martone/Frondell.
Schafer misa Hagens martone frondell for me loving the idea of moving up to get another pick in the top twenty though with 6 additional picks in the top 50 I think it's kinda top heavy draft. Atcheson McQueen O'Brien there's a lot to like after the top 5 but I don't know it runs deep enough the second round is more than average
 
Have him 3rd!

Think Schaefer has Star 1D potential and Misa a multiple time 40 goal scoring centre.

Again, the whole point of this conversation being, alot people view Desnoyers as a future selke level centre. Him going top 5 isn't unreasonable at all.

It's not like taking him over Hagens is like taking Luchanko over Buium lol

If you think there are 2 better players in a draft than the potential next Toews or Kopitar, that should probably be a sign that either this is the best draft ever at the top or your expectations shade high. Maybe it is that good of a draft. No one knows. But it would have to be.

I would argue “future Selke level Center” is the archetype the league gets wrong the most. And usually it comes from how good they have to be offensively to get to that level. It feels almost like a fallback position. What made those guys different is that they did all of the defensive stuff while being spectacular offensively.
 
If Flyers get 1st somehow, while I like Schaefer, I think Misa is the right call. I think Misa and Schaefer are about equal, but if that's the case, you go a bit more with need, and that would be Misa.
 
I should have said this earlier.

If you think Desnoyers going above Hagens and Martone is a defensible position, I think most people are saying more about their opinions on those guys than Desnoyers himself. In order to arrive there, those guys have to come back to him. Desnoyers isn't an archetype that shoots into 1OA discussion with a big playoffs or something. It has to be both.

That’s neither good nor bad. It’s just a bit of a different animal.
 
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It's always zesty buffalo for me (and I pour it on top of the regular and spicy chicken sandwhich) but I'll go with the chili sriracha one too. Love the regular Chick-fil-A sauce but damn it's so bad for you. Each packet is like 140 calories and I can easily crush 3.
I’d never tried the chick fil a sweet chili sriracha until like a week ago and wow… it’s incredible.
 
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IF Schaefer is the best defensive prospect since Makar, then he's the guy to take at one. The Flyers have never drafted a true number one defenseman in the history of the organization. It would also ease the pain of having passed over Makar for Patrick. However a blue line stud is a rare player.
Are there any projections indicating that Misa is a lock as a center? Not putting down Misa, but he might best be a wing going forward rather than a center. Unless you have a Cellebrini or Bedard in the draft, Schaefer is the guy to take.
 
IF Schaefer is the best defensive prospect since Makar, then he's the guy to take at one. The Flyers have never drafted a true number one defenseman in the history of the organization. It would also ease the pain of having passed over Makar for Patrick. However a blue line stud is a rare player.
Are there any projections indicating that Misa is a lock as a center? Not putting down Misa, but he might best be a wing going forward rather than a center. Unless you have a Cellebrini or Bedard in the draft, Schaefer is the guy to take.
Misa is not a lock to be a center, or at least a 1C. I would take Shaefer if picking 1OA based on what I’ve read.
 
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I think it’s hard to compare and project prospects to veteran NHL’ers as hockey is a team sport and highly dependent on who you play with. Talented players will elevate other talented players and make them exponentially better. It’s not a completely ridiculous argument to say that guys like Kopitar and Toews were the 3rd most important players on their team in their prime. I’m not sure if Kopitar and Toews have the reputation they do if they didn’t play with other guys like Dougherty, Quick, Kane, Keith and other talented players. A type of synergy takes effect. If a team is able to get a few high end players other players will benefit and a 60-70 point player can easily become a 80+ point player.
 
Toews and Kopitar during their best years were 70 point centres who were yearly contenders for the selke because they of how complete their games were.

I factor in here that they were getting 70ish points during a lower scoring time period league wide but translating that to todays NHL, I think Desnoyers has the potential to be a 80 point guy who is a yearly contender for the Selke and one of the leagues best all around forwards, much like Toews and Kopitar were during their era.

Now does that translate to him winning multiple championships like those guys, which propelled them to being viewed as top 150 players all time, idk. All I know is from my perspective he can this decades next great two way Cs.

Such different scoring eras... and even still 70 points is underselling both. Best 7 seasons P/82:

Kopitar: 92, 81, 80, 77, 76, 75, 74
Toews: 84, 81, 79, 78, 73, 73, 70

So over their primes? Both were pretty much ~75 point guys.

When you look at their best 7 P/GP finishes?

Kopitar: 9, 10, 15, 18, 22, 24, 28
Toews: 13, 17, 17, 23, 28, 32, 33

Over their best ~7 years they were, on average, the 18th best and 23rd best scorer in the league.

In todays NHL that is the equivalent, roughly of ~90 and ~88 points per season.

When look at the last 5 seasons and which NHL forwards have scored at that pace on average in the increased scoring environment?

Sidney Crosby, J.T. Miller, Jack Hughes, Braydon Point and Jack Eichel are the 5 most similar Cs scoring wise to Kopitar and Toews in their prime...

expecting Desnoyers to be that is, well, unrealistic. And I like him.

Now, maybe he can be Roope Hintz or Nico Hischier if things go perfectly. That is still a low end 1C in theory. Both have been ~80 point guys in this era!

BUT the 2007-2014 equivalent of Hintz or Hischier is not Kopitar or Toews...

it is Mikko Koivu or Paul Stastny...
 
I think his point is that the rankings could be wrong, like they are every year. Kopitar went 11, turns out he should have gone 2. Of course, once you go that route then everything goes out the window

The thing is he was underdrafted at the time because teams underestimated how good the J20 was, especially then.

20 years later and Kopitar still has the all-time P/GP record for an u-18 in draft year as a C... and he was 6'4 with fantastic D.

He should have gone a lot higher. NHL teams were just far worse at drafting then than they even are now.

The 2005 draft was pretty poor tbh even without hindsight, just based off what guys were doing vs peers...

Setoguchi did not even get P/GP in CHL and went ahead.
Pouliot was under P/GP and went 4th.
Bourdon went top 10 because he had almost 120 PIMs and could skate at 6'3.

If teams were smarter he would have gone top 5 without hindsight.

Crosby, Ryan, Johnson... were probably the only 3 skaters with better profiles at the time. And Crosby the only one with a "clearly" better profile. Those 3, Price and Kopitar should have been the top 5...
 
I think it’s hard to compare and project prospects to veteran NHL’ers as hockey is a team sport and highly dependent on who you play with. Talented players will elevate other talented players and make them exponentially better. It’s not a completely ridiculous argument to say that guys like Kopitar and Toews were the 3rd most important players on their team in their prime. I’m not sure if Kopitar and Toews have the reputation they do if they didn’t play with other guys like Dougherty, Quick, Kane, Keith and other talented players. A type of synergy takes effect. If a team is able to get a few high end players other players will benefit and a 60-70 point player can easily become a 80+ point player.

Kopitar was a close to P/GP 1C (top ~25 C in the NHL that year) as a teenager before Doughty and Quick played a game in the NHL... and the most talented players he had to work with was Alex Frolov and the corpse of Rob Blake...

He is LA's best player now... at 37 years old... on a perennial 100 point team.

They might not have the same reputation in the general public if they were not on great teams. But they would both still be considered top 200 players all time. Heck, Kopitar especially probably had average talent around him offensively over career and might have scored more with more talented linemates and a less defensive team philosophy.
 
Choosing Wang as one of the first guys to watch is bananas, Joseph.

It could be the football in me talking, MariToe. T’Vondre Sweat (6’4.5” 366 lbs) was one of the first guys I watched in his cycle too. I may or may not like it in the end, but I want to see what the giant guy did.
 
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I’m not a big Desnoyers guy — wouldn’t hate the pick at #4, wouldn’t love it — but I guess I’m not that offended by the claim that he has “Toews/Kopitar potential”.

The argument that “if he has Kopitar potential, he would be 1OA” doesn’t carry water. If Kopitar had Kopitar potential, he also would have gone 1OA (fine, 2OA in his case).

There’s going to be another Kopitar, another Toews, another Draisaitl, another Pastrnak, Giroux, etc etc. As long as you’re not saying he “will be the next Kopitar”, I don’t find it unreasonable to say that he has a similar archetype and has the potential. All of these guys are nothing but potential. Guess we can split hairs on what odds you need to have in order to for the statement to be justified, but that seems pedantic when we’re talking about a top five draft prospect. All the top prospects have superstar potential, even if those outcomes are unlikely.
 
The thing is he was underdrafted at the time because teams underestimated how good the J20 was, especially then.

20 years later and Kopitar still has the all-time P/GP record for an u-18 in draft year as a C... and he was 6'4 with fantastic D.

He should have gone a lot higher. NHL teams were just far worse at drafting then than they even are now.

The 2005 draft was pretty poor tbh even without hindsight, just based off what guys were doing vs peers...

Setoguchi did not even get P/GP in CHL and went ahead.
Pouliot was under P/GP and went 4th.
Bourdon went top 10 because he had almost 120 PIMs and could skate at 6'3.

If teams were smarter he would have gone top 5 without hindsight.

Crosby, Ryan, Johnson... were probably the only 3 skaters with better profiles at the time. And Crosby the only one with a "clearly" better profile. Those 3, Price and Kopitar should have been the top 5...

Such different scoring eras... and even still 70 points is underselling both. Best 7 seasons P/82:

Kopitar: 92, 81, 80, 77, 76, 75, 74
Toews: 84, 81, 79, 78, 73, 73, 70

So over their primes? Both were pretty much ~75 point guys.

When you look at their best 7 P/GP finishes?

Kopitar: 9, 10, 15, 18, 22, 24, 28
Toews: 13, 17, 17, 23, 28, 32, 33

Over their best ~7 years they were, on average, the 18th best and 23rd best scorer in the league.

In todays NHL that is the equivalent, roughly of ~90 and ~88 points per season.

When look at the last 5 seasons and which NHL forwards have scored at that pace on average in the increased scoring environment?

Sidney Crosby, J.T. Miller, Jack Hughes, Braydon Point and Jack Eichel are the 5 most similar Cs scoring wise to Kopitar and Toews in their prime...

expecting Desnoyers to be that is, well, unrealistic. And I like him.

Now, maybe he can be Roope Hintz or Nico Hischier if things go perfectly. That is still a low end 1C in theory. Both have been ~80 point guys in this era!

BUT the 2007-2014 equivalent of Hintz or Hischier is not Kopitar or Toews...

it is Mikko Koivu or Paul Stastny...
You're right, I shouldn't have used Toews or Kopitar as the comps but my point still stands where i believe he can be this decades premiere two-way C.

Up to 20 points in 9 playoff games btw!
 
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Kopitar was a close to P/GP 1C (top ~25 C in the NHL that year) as a teenager before Doughty and Quick played a game in the NHL... and the most talented players he had to work with was Alex Frolov and the corpse of Rob Blake...

He is LA's best player now... at 37 years old... on a perennial 100 point team.

They might not have the same reputation in the general public if they were not on great teams. But they would both still be considered top 200 players all time. Heck, Kopitar especially probably had average talent around him offensively over career and might have scored more with more talented linemates and a less defensive team philosophy.

Of course Kopitar would have been a good player wherever he played but I just think it’s unfair to compare prospects to great players who played in great situations, both in favor of the prospect or against the prospect. Some of these kids will become great players and find themselves in a great situation and become the new measuring stick 15 years from now. Even though LAK were a defensive oriented team when Kopitar cemented his legacy, he was surrounded by great players and firepower

It’s a whole other topic, but it also depends how you define “potential”, what it entails, and how it is judged. Like was Kopitar a homerun where he hit his ceiling or was he always destined to be this player and this was his mean or average? We will never know. If Desnoyers hits his ceiling he will probably be worth a lottery pick. Will he hit it? Probably not but some players turn into home runs and it’s tough to tell which players those will be. Talking about prospects from years ago is always marred by hindsight. Rarely do I see anyone saying so-and-so was a good pick even though he was a bust.
 

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