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Official 2024-25 Utah HC Season Discussion. | Page 33 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League
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Official 2024-25 Utah HC Season Discussion.

cobra427 said:
Great on offense 65+ points, average 40-45 points for a 1D. Great on D is harder to quantify and more subjective, Foxx/Hedman are examples. Chych/Yandle/Sergi fall into above average point production but not elite. All 3 are average on D, not great. Sergi is 26 so his D game can improve, as somebody mentioned, D peak later then forwards, closer to 30.

TB kept an older MCD and traded Sergi, part of it was cap reasons. If Sergi was truly a 1D in the making, I doubt they would have traded him, they would have let MCD go instead. 26 year old 1Ds on long term deals don't get traded unless it is a monster return. I think TB got a good return but not a 1D return, because he isn't a 1D (yet). TB had a good look at his game for years to make this determination, that team won cups, the GM isn't stupid.

Last comment, I am pro Sergi, he has been our best player this year, I think Marino and Durzi coming back will take some pressure off of him, allow him to free wheel some more and his scoring could pick up. The 7 game home stand is very important for the season, lets go Yotes!
Click to expand...
Trade was a plus for both sides. And he is (more obviously) enjoying his role and time in SLC.
 
cobra427 said:
Great on offense 65+ points, average 40-45 points for a 1D. Great on D is harder to quantify and more subjective, Foxx/Hedman are examples. Chych/Yandle/Sergi fall into above average point production but not elite. All 3 are average on D, not great. Sergi is 26 so his D game can improve, as somebody mentioned, D peak later then forwards, closer to 30.

TB kept an older MCD and traded Sergi, part of it was cap reasons. If Sergi was truly a 1D in the making, I doubt they would have traded him, they would have let MCD go instead. 26 year old 1Ds on long term deals don't get traded unless it is a monster return. I think TB got a good return but not a 1D return, because he isn't a 1D (yet). TB had a good look at his game for years to make this determination, that team won cups, the GM isn't stupid.

Last comment, I am pro Sergi, he has been our best player this year, I think Marino and Durzi coming back will take some pressure off of him, allow him to free wheel some more and his scoring could pick up. The 7 game home stand is very important for the season, lets go Yotes!
Click to expand...
I think you are misreading Tampa and the reason they traded Sergi. It all started when Stamkos wouldn't sign on the cheap, so Tampa had to replace Stamkos pts. and they did that when they signed a younger player in Guentzel, but had to pay more, so they had to make a move. Tampa traded for MCD, which made Sergi available and Tampa knew that Utah wanted him and they got a pretty good return. Tampa got younger and better with Guentzel, Geekie and Moser, and Utah got their man as well. A good hockey trade. Tampa is really good moving players around, staying under the cap, and still being a playoff contender. It's not so much if Tampa thought Sergi was a 1D, rather how to get better and be under the cap. BA thinks Sergi is a 1D, so if BA thinks he is, it really doesn't matter what dummies like you and I say, does it.:nod: Or for that matter any of people who get to vote for the Norris. They probably are no smarter than you or I.

Renopucker said:
Trade was a plus for both sides. And he is (more obviously) enjoying his role and time in SLC.
Click to expand...
Good old hockey trade.
 
Jakey53 said:
I think you are misreading Tampa and the reason they traded Sergi. It all started when Stamkos wouldn't sign on the cheap, so Tampa had to replace Stamkos pts. and they did that when they signed a younger player in Guentzel, but had to pay more, so they had to make a move. Tampa traded for MCD, which made Sergi available and Tampa knew that Utah wanted him and they got a pretty good return. Tampa got younger and better with Guentzel, Geekie and Moser, and Utah got their man as well. A good hockey trade. Tampa is really good moving players around, staying under the cap, and still being a playoff contender. It's not so much if Tampa thought Sergi was a 1D, rather how to get better and be under the cap. BA thinks Sergi is a 1D, so if BA thinks he is, it really doesn't matter what dummies like you and I say, does it.:nod: Or for that matter any of people who get to vote for the Norris. They probably are no smarter than you or I.


Good old hockey trade.
Click to expand...
You hit several nails on the head there. Props.
 
Jakey53 said:
I think you are misreading Tampa and the reason they traded Sergi. It all started when Stamkos wouldn't sign on the cheap, so Tampa had to replace Stamkos pts. and they did that when they signed a younger player in Guentzel, but had to pay more, so they had to make a move. Tampa traded for MCD, which made Sergi available and Tampa knew that Utah wanted him and they got a pretty good return. Tampa got younger and better with Guentzel, Geekie and Moser, and Utah got their man as well. A good hockey trade. Tampa is really good moving players around, staying under the cap, and still being a playoff contender. It's not so much if Tampa thought Sergi was a 1D, rather how to get better and be under the cap. BA thinks Sergi is a 1D, so if BA thinks he is, it really doesn't matter what dummies like you and I say, does it.:nod: Or for that matter any of people who get to vote for the Norris. They probably are no smarter than you or I.


Good old hockey trade.
Click to expand...
I agree with what you said mostly, it was a cap move for TB. I also think TB thinks that Sergi isn't a 1D now and is not likely to turn into one, while BA thinks he will turn into one, or can surround him with better players on D so he doesn't always have the toughest assignments.

I can see both sides, in TBs mind they were trading a 2D and got a good return for a 2D. In BAs mind, he was trading for a 1D, and gave up less than what it would usually cost for a 1D. Obviously, I agree with TBs talent and potential assessment of Sergi. 26 year old 1Ds on long term contracts at a reasonable price (if he is a 1D) are so hard to come by. And, TB has proven to be very smart.

BA maybe realizes this was his best option for now and as close as he could get to a 1D. Anyone in our pipeline is 3-5 years away and lots of development from being a 1D, and that outcome is not very likely with anyone we have now.
 
cobra427 said:
I agree with what you said mostly, it was a cap move for TB. I also think TB thinks that Sergi isn't a 1D now and is not likely to turn into one, while BA thinks he will turn into one, or can surround him with better players on D so he doesn't always have the toughest assignments.

I can see both sides, in TBs mind they were trading a 2D and got a good return for a 2D. In BAs mind, he was trading for a 1D, and gave up less than what it would usually cost for a 1D. Obviously, I agree with TBs talent and potential assessment of Sergi. 26 year old 1Ds on long term contracts at a reasonable price (if he is a 1D) are so hard to come by. And, TB has proven to be very smart.

BA maybe realizes this was his best option for now and as close as he could get to a 1D. Anyone in our pipeline is 3-5 years away and lots of development from being a 1D, and that outcome is not very likely with anyone we have now.
Click to expand...
BA considers Sergi a 1D and said as much, more than once. BA was after Sergi for some time and told Tampa if he ever come available call him. I believe Sergi, like Chych, are 1D, maybe not high tier 1D, but never the less a 1D with their play this year.
 
Jakey53 said:
BA considers Sergi a 1D and said as much, more than once. BA was after Sergi for some time and told Tampa if he ever come available call him. I believe Sergi, like Chych, are 1D, maybe not high tier 1D, but never the less a 1D with their play this year.
Click to expand...
Chych isn't a one D either.
 
Arizonatah Coyetis said:
I'd love to see a few people's lists of all the players considered a 1D. Shouldn't take too long since there's not many.
Click to expand...
  1. Cale Makar
  2. Quinn Hughes
  3. Miro Heiskanen
  4. Josh Morrissey
  5. Roman Josi
  6. Jaccob Slavin
  7. Zach Werenski
  8. Rasmus Dahlin
  9. Victor Hedman
  10. Adam Fox
  11. Gustav Forsling
  12. Noah Dobson
  13. Devon Toews
  14. Shea Theodore
  15. Charlie McAvoy
  16. Evan Bouchard
  17. MacKenzie Weegar
  18. Dougie Hamilton
  19. Chris Tanev
  20. Moritz Seider
These are the top 20 off the top of my head. Chych/Ghost/Sergi are not top 20 even though all 3 of them are in the top 10-15 in points. I am sure many will argue Sergi should be on this list, needs to be better on D to make it.....
 
cobra427 said:
  1. Cale Makar
  2. Quinn Hughes
  3. Miro Heiskanen
  4. Josh Morrissey
  5. Roman Josi
  6. Jaccob Slavin
  7. Zach Werenski
  8. Rasmus Dahlin
  9. Victor Hedman
  10. Adam Fox
  11. Gustav Forsling
  12. Noah Dobson
  13. Devon Toews
  14. Shea Theodore
  15. Charlie McAvoy
  16. Evan Bouchard
  17. MacKenzie Weegar
  18. Dougie Hamilton
  19. Chris Tanev
  20. Moritz Seider
These are the top 20 off the top of my head. Chych/Ghost/Sergi are not top 20 even though all 3 of them are in the top 10-15 in points. I am sure many will argue Sergi should be on this list, needs to be better on D to make it.....
Click to expand...

I won't nitpick your list. That's not why I asked.

Your list basically has the same players that were on the last two NHL Top 20 lists ('23 & '24.) Sergachev was ranked 17 & 21 or 22 respectively on those lists. IYO is Sergachev at least close to meeting your requirements for 1D and could possibly become one now that he's being given the opportunity? Seems like based on being top 25 for two years in a row that he'd have to at least be considered very close to a "true" 1D if you don't see him as one already.

I think Sergachev is much better on D than Chychrun and Ghost Bear. Sergy has far too many turnovers, but his D is quite solid, IMO.

Chychrun and Ghost may be scoring a lot of points too, but they're being put into more favorable situations to score with less defensive responsibilities. Sergachev plays a much more well rounded game than them both. Ghost is definitely the most one-dimensional D-man of the three.

Chychrun:
Offensive Deployment 55.59%
Quality of Competition -0.1535

Gostisbehere:
Offensive Deployment 58.310%
Quality of Competition -0.4516

Sergachev:
Offensive Deployment 48.58%
Quality of Competition 0.292

Personally, I don't think Chychrun or (especially) Gostisbehere belong in the same conversation as Sergachev.
 
Last edited:
Arizonatah Coyetis said:
I won't nitpick your list. That's not why I asked.

Your list basically has the same players that were on the last two NHL Top 20 lists ('23 & '24.) Sergachev was ranked 17 & 21 or 22 respectively on those lists. IYO is Sergachev at least close to meeting your requirements for 1D and could possibly become one now that he's being given the opportunity? Seems like based on being top 25 for two years in a row that he'd have to at least be considered very close to a "true" 1D if you don't see him as one already.

I think Sergachev is much better on D than Chychrun and Ghost Bear. Sergy has far too many turnovers, but his D is quite solid, IMO.

Chychrun and Ghost may be scoring a lot of points too, but they're being put into more favorable situations to score with less defensive responsibilities. Sergachev plays a much more well rounded game than them both. Ghost is definitely the most one-dimensional D-man of the three.

Chychrun:
Offensive Deployment 55.59%
Quality of Competition -0.1535

Gostisbehere:
Offensive Deployment 58.310%
Quality of Competition -0.4516

Sergachev:
Offensive Deployment 48.58%
Quality of Competition 0.292

Personally, I don't think Chychrun or (especially) Gostisbehere belong in the same conversation as Sergachev.
Click to expand...
Sergi is a 1D for Utah so he must be a true 1D. He and Chych are very close to the same player, just my opinion, good on O and average on D. I just picked 20 guys (quickly) I thought are better overall, this is all subjective anyway. I didn't look at age, salary etc, just who they are right now as players.

Let's get Marino/Durzi back quickly, that will help our back end and take pressure off of Sergi. We need a great home stand, we are 0-1 so far and at an 83 point pace, we need to be better and start winning soon or kiss the playoffs good by.
 
cobra427 said:
Let's get Marino/Durzi back quickly, that will help our back end and take pressure off of Sergi. We need a great home stand, we are 0-1 so far and at an 83 point pace, we need to be better and start winning soon or kiss the playoffs good by.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I think the latest update per BA (accotding to Craig Morgan,) is that Marino isn't going to be back until somethime the beginning of Feb. and Durzi won't be back until around season's end.
 
cobra427 said:
  1. Cale Makar
  2. Quinn Hughes
  3. Miro Heiskanen
  4. Josh Morrissey
  5. Roman Josi
  6. Jaccob Slavin
  7. Zach Werenski
  8. Rasmus Dahlin
  9. Victor Hedman
  10. Adam Fox
  11. Gustav Forsling
  12. Noah Dobson
  13. Devon Toews
  14. Shea Theodore
  15. Charlie McAvoy
  16. Evan Bouchard
  17. MacKenzie Weegar
  18. Dougie Hamilton
  19. Chris Tanev
  20. Moritz Seider
These are the top 20 off the top of my head. Chych/Ghost/Sergi are not top 20 even though all 3 of them are in the top 10-15 in points. I am sure many will argue Sergi should be on this list, needs to be better on D to make it.....
Click to expand...
When I look at these types of lists, my ranking is based on whether I would accept (not be mad) if "my" team traded the player one for one on that list.

I would NOT want to trade Sergachev straight up for any of:

Toews
Bouchard
Hamilton
Tanev

Iffy on McAvoy, Weeger, Forsling
 
.







Heldig said:
When I look at these types of lists, my ranking is based on whether I would accept (not be mad) if "my" team traded the player one for one on that list.

I would NOT want to trade Sergachev straight up for any of:

Toews
Bouchard
Hamilton
Tanev

Iffy on McAvoy, Weeger, Forsling
Click to expand...
Thats fair. When trading players, other factors come into play, age, dollars, years, etc...
 
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