Official 2024-25 Utah HC Season Discussion.

[cobra427]

I tried. Couldn't find the NHL's top 20 D for 2024. Either way, don't act like I used one from 5 years ago. It's still recent.



The topic is still about what qualifies as a 1D. Karlsson and Burns are still being given the most minutes this season with their teams. Still being utilized as 1D even if they've fallen off the top 20 list. The point of the Top 20 list was to show that that Sergachev made the list, is in elite company with all the others, and still doesn't get the recognition.



I at least used an article directly from the NHL where the players were chosen by NHL Network Producers and Analysts. That's another reason I stuck to the 2023 list - I like the source better than the ones I found for 2024.

It fits your narrative better too! Look, I like Sergi, I think he is a good player, we might make the playoffs this year, I'm pulling for him, BA, Bear, and the team to make it in. Sergi has been our best player and he logs a ton of minutes with Marino/Durzi out. His points this year, his minutes, and any recent article doesn't overcome his average D play to make him a true #1 D, all I am saying, just my opinion too. I said the same thing about Chych, many disagreed with me on this board, I think I have been proven to be right on Chych. I hope I am wrong on Sergi and his D play gets better, if that happens he is no doubt a 1D, would love to be wrong, I am pulling for him

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

It fits your narrative better too!

He got his name on the same list as all the guys considered 1D, but doesn't get the same credit they do. My narrative can't manipulate that because it's a fact.

 

[cobra427]

He got his name on a list with elite players but doesn't get the same credit they do. My narrative can't manipulate that because it's a fact.

Its not just about points.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Its not just about points.

I've never said it was. Not sure what you mean. The Top 20 list wasn't all about points.

"Whether it's breaking up a big play, setting up a goal or scoring on the powerplay, some defenseman can do it all. NHL Network producers and analysts chose the top 20 defenseman in the league right now..."

I don't even think you should have to be on the list to be considered a 1D. That list is just reserved for the best of the 1D but is by no means all of them, IMO. And Sergy earned his way onto the list that year not too long ago. Yet some act like there's no way he ever was, is, or could ever become a 1D.

Edit:

Ask Coach T and he'll say that Sergachev is his 1D. He won't say "we don't have one because there's only 15 or so of them in the league."

 

[TheLegend]

 

[cobra427]

It would be great to see Durzi and marino back shortly. This 7 game home stand could make or break the season for us.

 

[Jakey53]

Its not just about points.

It's not just about defensive play either.

 

[cobra427]

It's not just about defensive play either.

Great on D and average on offense is better then great on offense and average on D, for a 1D

 

[rt]

Until we see the Utah Jazz firing everyone, I think,BA and team are in good position

Whether or not BA is satisfied with the coaches remains to be seen… I think,he is

If the team kept going down that spiral where they played good for about half a period of a game, I think changes may have been made … but lately the team seems to be playing well win or lose….. with a few exceptions


Wow still blows my mind how far you guys have come ….

Thanks sir!

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Great on D and average on offense is better then great on offense and average on D, for a 1D

I would have to ask clarifying question what is considered average? and what is considered great?

 

[Jamieh]

He got his name on the same list as all the guys considered 1D, but doesn't get the same credit they do. My narrative can't manipulate that because it's a fact.

He got his name on the list after his best season as a pro. The following season he missed over half the year with a broken leg and found himself not on a predictions list. His potential isn't now what it was after the 22-23 season. This past summer many predicted Evan Bouchard would challenge for top D Man in the League. Right now not so much.....see how that works. You have to keep the momentum

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

He got his name on the list after his best season as a pro.

D-men typically don't peak until they're almost 30. I'll also point out that his opportunity to "be the guy" just started and he's only 26 now. Seems premature to think that season was the best he'll ever have or that he's no longer playing at a 1D level because he isn't top 20 every year.

I think you're also diluting how special it is to make that list even once in a career to make your point. It's very special and exclusive. Dropping off a list doesn't mean that his play has taken a nosedive.

The following season he missed over half the year with a broken leg and found himself not on a predictions list. His potential isn't now what it was after the 22-23 season.

So... the injury has ruined his potential and he's peaked? At 26? When he's just now getting his biggest opportunity? I think that's a premature judgement. Not sure how you can feel confident in that analysis or come to that conclusion when the guy is playing great hockey right now as AT's 1D and there's absolutely nothing to show he's peaked or not living up to the potential he once had. I think he's doing great, myself.

Plenty of great d-men out there playing the hardest minutes and are trusted by their coach in all situations that will never make that list like he did. It shows potential, not peak.

This past summer many predicted Evan Bouchard would challenge for top D Man in the League. Right now not so much.....see how that works. You have to keep the momentum

Bouchard is still playing the most minutes in EDM. He is still their 1D. Not sure how him failing to live up to hype (that was probably a bit overboard) means he's not a 1D afterall, does it? That's the topic, 1D. Not who's best of them all.

Bouchard's story is still being written. Unless you think it's over for him too.

 

[Jamieh]

D-men typically don't peak until they're almost 30. I'll also point out that his opportunity to "be the guy" just started and he's only 26 now. Seems premature to think that season was the best he'll ever have or that he's no longer playing at a 1D level because he isn't top 20 every year.

I think you're also diluting how special it is to make that list even once in a career to make your point. It's very special and exclusive. Dropping off a list doesn't mean that his play has taken a nosedive.



So... the injury has ruined his potential and he's peaked? Won't be a special player because he didn't make the top 20 list again? Career decided? At 26? When he's just now getting his biggest opportunity? I think that's a premature judgement. Not sure how you can feel confident in that analysis or come to that conclusion. The guy is playing great hockey right now as AT's 1D and there's absolutely nothing to show he's peaked or not living up to his potential. I think he's doing great, myself.

Plenty of great d-men out there playing the hardest minutes and are trusted by their coach in all situations that will never make that list like he did. It shows potential, not peak.



Bouchard is still playing the most minutes in EDM. He is still their 1D. Not sure how him failing to live up to hype (that was probably a bit overboard) means he's not a 1D afterall, does it? That's the topic, 1D. Not who's best of them all.

Bouchard's story is still being written. Unless you think it's over for him too.

I don't think it's over for either ... but i also don't think either is currently a traditional 1D

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

I don't think it's over for either ... but i also don't think either is currently a traditional 1D

It's cool. We've shared thoughts. Good discussion!

 

[Schemp]

It would be great to see Durzi and marino back shortly. This 7 game home stand could make or break the season for us.

...and MavLam, 3 RHDs. They could send him down to finish the season in Tucson?
...how long before Ingram returns?

 

[Jakey53]

Great on D and average on offense is better then great on offense and average on D, for a 1D

Not necessarily. Depends on many factors.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Do you think Draisaitl isn't a number one center because the Oilers have McDavid? By that logic Dylan Larkin must be better because he's the top center in Detroit and Draisaitl. I know you don't follow that logic, but your argument is coming across more and more akin to it.

On Defense, Sergi isn't top 32, your 1D has to be good on defense unless he gets 80 points like Karlson, Sergi is a 2D. Drai playing behind McDavid doesn't make him a 2C, McDavid is one of the top 20 players ever. Sergi was playing behind a pair of good D but neither was Orr/Lindstorm/Borque etc...

I rescind this part of my comment.

 

[cobra427]

I would have to ask clarifying question what is considered average? and what is considered great?

Great on offense 65+ points, average 40-45 points for a 1D. Great on D is harder to quantify and more subjective, Foxx/Hedman are examples. Chych/Yandle/Sergi fall into above average point production but not elite. All 3 are average on D, not great. Sergi is 26 so his D game can improve, as somebody mentioned, D peak later then forwards, closer to 30.

TB kept an older MCD and traded Sergi, part of it was cap reasons. If Sergi was truly a 1D in the making, I doubt they would have traded him, they would have let MCD go instead. 26 year old 1Ds on long term deals don't get traded unless it is a monster return. I think TB got a good return but not a 1D return, because he isn't a 1D (yet). TB had a good look at his game for years to make this determination, that team won cups, the GM isn't stupid.

Last comment, I am pro Sergi, he has been our best player this year, I think Marino and Durzi coming back will take some pressure off of him, allow him to free wheel some more and his scoring could pick up. The 7 game home stand is very important for the season, lets go Yotes!

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Ok, I would agree that I'd rather have the stud defender who gets 45pts rather than the 65pt Offensive Dman with average Defensive skills.

Now, I'd argue that if I'm comparing defense between Sergi/Yandle/Chych, Sergi is miles better at D than either Yandle and Chych

I think Sergi is an above average Defender
I think Yandle was a poor Defender, along the lines of Ghost
I think Chych is an average Defender

I think Sergi is our 1D, and given the fact in my opinion he's an above average defender who will put up 60pts, I'd take that as my #1Dman all day long.

 

[cobra427]

Ok, I would agree that I'd rather have the stud defender who gets 45pts rather than the 65pt Offensive Dman with average Defensive skills.

Now, I'd argue that if I'm comparing defense between Sergi/Yandle/Chych, Sergi is miles better at D than either Yandle and Chych

I think Sergi is an above average Defender
I think Yandle was a poor Defender, along the lines of Ghost
I think Chych is an average Defender

I think Sergi is our 1D, and given the fact in my opinion he's an above average defender who will put up 60pts, I'd take that as my #1Dman all day long.

The difference between my opinion that Sergi is average on D, while many on this board think he a above average on D. I had the same argument when Chych was scoring, many on here thought he was above average on D and a 1D.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The difference between my opinion that Sergi is average on D, while many on this board think he a above average on D. I had the same argument when Chych was scoring, many on here thought he was above average on D and a 1D.

I agreed with you on Chuch because you were correct. Comparisons to Yandle and Chych are way off base though, as Serg is clearly a better defender.

 

[cobra427]

I agreed with you on Chuch because you were correct. Comparisons to Yandle and Chych are way off base though, as Serg is clearly a better defender.

He isn't clearly a better defender.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Here's a ranking from Feb. 2024 that has Sergachev in the top 25 best NHL defensemen for the 23-24 season. Unless you subscribe to ESPN you'll need to use a free paywall removal site to view the article.

This ranking is based on surveys completed by 10 NHL players and 10 people from Hockey Ops, including 2 coaches and 3 GMs:

The 10 best defensemen in the NHL for 2023-24

Take it as you will

Edit:
The article says Pietrangelo was the 15th ranked defenseman on the list but based on the 9 points they say he got, I keep getting 17th. Even when I write out everyone's names and their points and put them in order, acknowledging any ties. So I quit trying to put the top 11-25 into a list format based on the honorable mentions.

Sergachev still falls in the top 25 either way it appears. Looks like 21st or 22nd.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Take it as you will

(A little triskaidekaphobia? Or did you inentionally omit E. Karlsson? )

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

(A little triskaidekaphobia? Or did you inentionally omit E. Karlsson? )

Did I miss Karlsson? I'll have to take another look.

Edit: I did. Missed Letang too (That whole paragraph, actually lol.) I also noticed another issue to look into.