Official 2024-25 Utah HC Season Discussion.

[Jakey53]

All three are producing very well in challenging leagues already. All three play a strong physical game that projects well to the NHL. I think all three will be good picks. I like But's trajectory best. Dvorsky's speed MIGHT hold him back. Leonard's size MIGHT hold him back from playing his power game. But has the size, speed, vision, hands and shot all working for him.

How many games have you seen these players play?

 

[Jakey53]

On Defense, Sergi isn't top 32, your 1D has to be good on defense unless he gets 80 points like Karlson, Sergi is a 2D. Drai playing behind McDavid doesn't make him a 2C, McDavid is one of the top 20 players ever. Sergi was playing behind a pair of good D but neither was Orr/Lindstorm/Borque etc...

I guess that is why you say Hayton is a 1C because of his D.
There are, has been may D that don't get 80 pts. not the best on D but are still considered a 1D.

 

[Heldig]

I wouldn't mind JT miller but the length of contract is kind of a bummer. Not sure how good he's gonna be at 36-37...

delete - changed my comment

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

I was thinking about EP. I'm not interested in JTM. Age and I think there might be some truth to what this article says and JTM sounds way too extreme and like a locker-room cancer. A bully.

Former NHLer Compares the Drama Between J.T. Miller and Elias Pettersson to Former Leafs Captain Dion Phaneuf

Former NHLer Jay Rosehill comments on the drama that is going in Vancouver and compares former Toronto Maple Leafs captain to J.T. Miller

www.canucksdaily.com

 

[Prestigeworldwide]

Do not want JT Miller with that contract plus he is a known hard-ass. Might make some of our young guys cry. Regardless, he reportedly will only waive to go to the Rangers.

I just remember Cooley training in the summers with Miller. He is a tough player for sure, not sure about the off ice stuff.

 

[Heldig]

I just remember Cooley training in the summers with Miller. He is a tough player for sure, not sure about the off ice stuff.

Well the talk in Vancouver media is that Miller has been very hard on young players - especially Pettersson. Even talk of Pettersson handling it poorly. The GM even said Pettersson needs to mature.

“Petey has shown up to this point that he is an extremely talented, quality player that could and should be a No. 1 center,” Allvin said. “I believe in him. I believe that he's capable. (But) he needs to mature and understand that there are certain expectations and it does not get easier. And you need to face the music when things don't go well.

If Cooley, Guenther et al are cool with Miller, then sure. The guy is a warrior. And maybe the Canucks accept less than what they would demand in a EP trade.

Hayton + Schmaltz + Valimaki?

 

[cobra427]

It’s interesting to read the Sergachev debate in here. I must be in the minority because I think he’s already better than OEL. OEL is one of those players who, to me, was always massively overrated on these boards. While watching the games I used to text my brother back and fourth with things like “you won’t read about that turnover on hfboards, but they will crucify Yandle for his mistake.” every time he(OEL) made a mistake or boneheaded play, which was often. And sure enough, that’s always exactly how it played out. He lives off the memory of his two 20 goal seasons.

Prime OEL was a Norris candidate, top 5 or 10 a few years in voting, and primarily an excellent defensive D, Sergi is not either.

JT Miller turns 32 in two months. That’s a lot of assets to give up for a player that will be too old to play a top role on this team during its supposed cup window.

I don't see them as trade partners, they want to win now, so picks and prospects won't get it done, we don't have good vets to trade for JT.

 

[cobra427]

I guess that is why you say Hayton is a 1C because of his D.
There are, has been may D that don't get 80 pts. not the best on D but are still considered a 1D.

I didn't say Hayton is a 1C, he was our best C, but Cooley is passing him now. Name all the 1D, on teams in the top 15 (clearly above us), that aren't good on D?

 

[cobra427]

I don't see us trading for JT or Pettersson. JT has all kinds of issues with flying off the handle, emotionally unstable guy it sounds like, BA won't want him in our locker room. Petterson is a young 100 point 1C on a big contract, they will want a fortune for him, think Cooley and Keller both to get him.

 

[Jamieh]

Prime OEL was a Norris candidate, top 5 or 10 a few years in voting, and primarily an excellent defensive D, Sergi is not either.


I don't see them as trade partners, they want to win now, so picks and prospects won't get it done, we don't have good vets to trade for JT.

OEL was 7th and 9th in Norris voting in his best years. When he was 7th he had 3 first place votes and no 1st or 2nd place votes when he was 9th. A good player but in reality not really ever a Norris Contender. I agree with your assessment on Sergachev, Tampa essentially chose to bring back 35 year old McDonagh over him to save $1.7 million. If they thought he was a number 1D imo zero chance they make that move.

 

[TheLegend]

Utah claimed Nick DeSimone off waivers from NJD

 

[Jakey53]

OEL was 7th and 9th in Norris voting in his best years. When he was 7th he had 3 first place votes and no 1st or 2nd place votes when he was 9th. A good player but in reality not really ever a Norris Contender. I agree with your assessment on Sergachev, Tampa essentially chose to bring back 35 year old McDonagh over him to save $1.7 million. If they thought he was a number 1D imo zero chance they make that move.

Tampa got McDonagh, who they know very well, Geekie and Moser for Sergi. They already have Hedman as their 1D. I think Tampa did very well, as did Utah. Both got want they needed.

 

[Jakey53]

I didn't say Hayton is a 1C, he was our best C, but Cooley is passing him now. Name all the 1D, on teams in the top 15 (clearly above us), that aren't good on D?

So, you are telling me only the top 15 teams have #1D that are good on D?

 

[Jamieh]

Tampa got McDonagh, who they know very well, Geekie and Moser for Sergi. They already have Hedman as their 1D. I think Tampa did very well, as did Utah. Both got want they needed.

If Tampa thought Sergi was a 1D or made less to be 2nd pairing this trade never gets made. They know the Player and are well aware of what he is and that's not a number 1D. That doesn't mean he is bad or can't play meaningful minutes or a meaningful role. You don't let a number 1D go over a couple million or a couple of middle of the row players.

So, you are telling me only the top 15 teams have #1D that are good on D?

If you were going with a description of 1D I would doubt there are even 15 of them in the League.

 

[Mangosteen]

See how many Votes Serg gets this year if we make playoffs. Talk about carrying a team

 

[Jakey53]

If Tampa thought Sergi was a 1D or made less to be 2nd pairing this trade never gets made. They know the Player and are well aware of what he is and that's not a number 1D. That doesn't mean he is bad or can't play meaningful minutes or a meaningful role. You don't let a number 1D go over a couple million or a couple of middle of the row players.


If you were going with a description of 1D I would doubt there are even 15 of them in the League.

It depends on your interpretation of a 1D is.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

If you were going with a description of 1D I would doubt there are even 15 of them in the League.

I've heard this take many times before with D and C. Since you mentioned it I'll take an opportunity to say that I have a hard time with accepting it, myself.

I don't think the definition of a 1D should be so strict that it limits the list to as few as 15 players. Maybe those 15 players should be considered the best of the 1D but not the only ones. Otherwise, it seems too elite IMO.

 

[cobra427]

So, you are telling me only the top 15 teams have #1D that are good on D?

Name all the 1D that are not good on D, you said many, I couldn't find any?

See how many Votes Serg gets this year if we make playoffs. Talk about carrying a team

Zero is my prediction, same as Ghost and Chych who equal him in points right now.

 

[Jamieh]

I've heard this take many times before. Since you mentioned it I'll take an opportunity to say that I have a hard time with accepting it, myself.

I don't think the definition of a 1D should be so strict that it limits the list to as few as 15 players. Maybe those 15 players should be considered the best of the 1D but not the only ones. Otherwise, it seems too elite IMO.

It's supposed to be elite, that's what the number 1 means. Every team has a player who plays the most minutes on D and a center that plays the most......but every team does not have a 1D or a 1 Center.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

It's supposed to be elite, that's what the number 1 means. Every team has a player who plays the most minutes on D and a center that plays the most......but every team does not have a 1D or a 1 Center.

I see it more as all 32 teams have a 1D role to fill. 32 players are filling that role. The 15 you mention are just the best of them. If they're the only ones that meet the standard the standard is off IMO.

 

[Jamieh]

I see it more as all 32 teams have a 1D role to fill. 32 players are filling that role. The 15 you mention are just the best of them. If they're the only ones that meet the standard the standard is off IMO.

I'll use Canadian teams as easy example. Who would you suggest are true number 1 D men for Edmonton, Montreal, and Toronto? I suggest neither of those Teams have a number 1D. There are a few other Canadian Teams I could also argue either way for.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Who would you suggest are true number 1 D men for Edmonton, Montreal, and Toronto?

Based on a model that only considers 15 or so players as 1D none of them do. But yet they all have someone playing that role on their team.

I suggest neither of those Teams have a number 1D

Not like Drew Doughty, no. But a player shouldn't have to be a Hedman or a Doughty to be considered a 1D. They're just lesser 1D IMO.

 

[Jamieh]

Based on a model that only considers 15 or so players as 1D none of them do. But yet they all have someone playing that role on their team.



Not like Drew Doughty, no. But a player shouldn't have to be a Hedman or a Doughty to be considered a 1D. They're just lesser 1D IMO.

So in this example of yours Cooley is a number 1 center and Durzi was number 1D last season so going forward the Utah's have 2 legitimate number 1 D's???? I say no

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

So in this example of yours Cooley is a number 1 center and Durzi was number 1D last season so going forward the Utah's have 2 legitimate number 1 D's???? I say no

No. But they are filling that position. If they had an office and their name on the door it would say 1D/C on it because that's the position they have. You could say that they're not amongst the best 1D/C but the coach has them playing 1D.

The job title that they are filling makes them a 1D. The skill level determines how good of one they are. 32 players playing 1D with differing results but they're all 1D based on usage and ice time, etc. I don't think it's fair to compare them all to 15 of the best and then say most don't deserve the title at all.

There should be more 1D in the league than there is exceptional 1D. 15 is too few for me.

 

[Jamieh]

No. But they are filling that position. If they had an office and their name on the door it would say 1D/C on it because that's the position they have. You could say that they're not amongst the best 1D/C but the coach has them playing 1D.

The job title that they are filling makes them a 1D. The skill level determines how good of one they are. 32 players playing 1D with differing results but they're all 1D IMO. I don't think it's fair to compare them all to 15 of the best and then say most don't deserve the title at all.

Not many people who discuss hockey consider just playing the most as the determinant of a 1D or a 1 center. It's why occasionally a team has more than one of each and many teams have neither and continue to search for one. If you consider playing the most then I think you are seriously underrating number 2 center Draisaitl.