Official 2024-25 Utah HC Season Discussion.

[Schemp]

Heard that Ingram has been assigned to Tucson for rehab stint!

 

[cobra427]

All I did was point out that BA got more out of Ghost than a third rounder and actually got good assets to take him off of PHI hands and I think it was a really good move on BA's part. Perfect example of fleecing another GM.

Hardly means I think that BA is the "second coming" of anything. I do like the moves he's made on the way to the big picture though. Big picture still TBD so I reserve the right to turn sour on BA at any time if I feel it's deserved. Like I did on Chayka when he traded for Hall.

It's too early to grade the rebuild so until then I'll rate each individual move he makes along the way. Right now I'm very, very pleased.

Ghost has as many points as Sergi this year, and he is as good or better on D. We got a third for him. BA won the trade for Ghost, but lost when he traded him away. No GM wins on every trade. I hope we catch fire and make the playoffs, I think we have a shot at it. But if we don't, NHL coaches that spend 4 years missing the playoffs and GMs that spend 5 years missing the playoffs get fired. Thats just how it works.

 

[TheLegend]

Heard that Ingram has been assigned to Tucson for rehab stint!

Yup....

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Ghost has as many points as Sergi this year, and he is as good or better on D. We got a third for him. BA won the trade for Ghost, but lost when he traded him away. No GM wins on every trade. I hope we catch fire and make the playoffs, I think we have a shot at it. But if we don't, NHL coaches that spend 4 years missing the playoffs and GMs that spend 5 years missing the playoffs get fired. Thats just how it works.

The return for Gostisbehere was weak. I agree.

Looking back at the trade thread for Ghost on Forum40 (to confirm what I recall,) we had always talked about trading him (everyone knew he wasn't in the long-term plans and that BA wanted to continue to stock up on draft picks) and lots of us on were expecting a 2nd and were a little disappointed. Getting a 2nd and 7th upfront makes up for it but it could've been a little bit better return on the way out.

I can even show my own post that says "bit of a weak return, no?"

We have no idea of the level of interest other teams had in Ghost. Maybe CAR offer was the only one or the best one. Either way a little more was expected. BA does pretty darn good on most of his trades though, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Bleacher report, among a few others said BA made out good with a 3rd.

Edit:

Sergy is a top line d-man, Ghost is not. Ghost is still more of a PP specialist. 18 of his 27 points have come on the PP. Sergy has more points 5v5 (7). Ghostisbehere is a career -81, Sergy is a career +45.

I think Sergy is overall a much more well rounded d-man.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

NHL coaches that spend 4 years missing the playoffs and GMs that spend 5 years missing the playoffs get fired. Thats just how it works.

Chris Armstrong just did a pre-game interview. Still sounds like him and Smith are satisfied with the job BA and AT are doing this season and that he believes the rebuild is about 50% of the way to where they want to get. Not once have I gotten the sense that BA or AT's job is in danger in any interveiw. Never any disappointment shown. Comments made about BA or AT are typically complimentary and were again tonight.

We'll see.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

I believe the best thing BA has done is the Serg trade. Work of art but my gut says that was directed by Smith and Armstrong.

Check this out (It's all about Smith's willingness to spend where Meruelo would not):

'He can do everything': How Mikhail Sergachev has made Utah a serious playoff contender

"This offseason, Armstrong, Smith and Utah president of hockey operations Chris Armstrong had a conversation about the team's needs. They all agreed that defense was a priority, which was the first step in the club getting Sergachev.

The next step was Armstrong calling every team in the NHL and asking them if they would be interested in trading their No. 1 defenseman. Armstrong said every GM was respectful -- but there were some who chuckled because those trades aren't exactly common. "We planted seeds," Armstrong said. "Those guys are impossible to get. Nobody wants to give up their best defenseman at a young age. We kind of moved past it and moved on to plan B, and were starting to look at some other trades. And then the phone rang."

The Lightning were on the other end of the call. They presented Armstrong with a proposal involving Sergachev. Armstrong said the initial proposal was turned down, but it didn't take long for both sides to reach an agreement."

 

[Mangosteen]

"They wanted to send a message that their rebuild was done. They sent that message by pulling off a trade to get top-pairing defenseman Mikhail Sergachev."

This was defiantly Smith. They will be buyers at deadline just wish they would do it sooner. Thats my only beef with BA and the Russians. I really hope they are here next year and I am utterly proven wrong. nothing would make me happier

 

[Jakey53]

Chris Armstrong just did a pre-game interview. Still sounds like him and Smith are satisfied with the job BA and AT are doing this season and that he believes the rebuild is about 50% of the way to where they want to get. Not once have I gotten the sense that BA or AT's job is in danger in any interveiw. Never any disappointment shown. Comments made about BA or AT are typically complimentary and were again tonight.

We'll see.

Managements all spouts shit, but I see no reason to fire BA or Bear at this point, unless the rest of the season goes south.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Thats my only beef with BA and the Russians. I really hope they are here next year and I am utterly proven wrong. nothing would make me happier

Someone recently shared a tweet on the Clean Hits Discord that basically said But was not re-signing in the KHL and would be coming over. If that's true it is expected Simashev does too since they're both pretty close friends from what I gather.

I'm expecting both of them to be here and win a roster spot out of camp since they've been playing good in the KHL already. Don't think going to Tucson will be beneficial.

 

[Mosby]

They are already playing in a league superior to the AHL. No point going to Tucson.

 

[Mangosteen]

Someone recently shared a tweet on the Clean Hits Discord that basically said But was not re-signing in the KHL and would be coming over. If that's true it is expected Simashev does too since they're both pretty close friends from what I gather.

I'm expecting both of them to be here and win a roster spot out of camp since they've been playing good in the KHL already. Don't think going to Tucson will be beneficial.

This is great news

 

[Mangosteen]

I used to think BA read these boards. Just encase BA please WTFU and make some moves. Trade Crouse and picks for Deman. WE will be out of the race come February and that will be on you! Want to play meaningful games help the team out for a change!!

 

[TheLegend]

The return for Gostisbehere was weak. I agree.

Looking back at the trade thread for Ghost on Forum40 (to confirm what I recall,) we had always talked about trading him (everyone knew he wasn't in the long-term plans and that BA wanted to continue to stock up on draft picks) and lots of us on were expecting a 2nd and were a little disappointed. Getting a 2nd and 7th upfront makes up for it but it could've been a little bit better return on the way out.

I can even show my own post that says "bit of a weak return, no?"

We have no idea of the level of interest other teams had in Ghost. Maybe CAR offer was the only one or the best one. Either way a little more was expected. BA does pretty darn good on most of his trades though, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Bleacher report, among a few others said BA made out good with a 3rd.

Edit:

Sergy is a top line d-man, Ghost is not. Ghost is still more of a PP specialist. 18 of his 27 points have come on the PP. Sergy has more points 5v5 (7). Ghostisbehere is a career -81, Sergy is a career +45.

I think Sergy is overall a much more well rounded d-man.

We got a year or so of Ghost and got paid several draft picks for it on both ends of the deal.

Net gain.

 

[TheLegend]

I used to think BA read these boards. Just encase BA please WTFU and make some moves. Trade Crouse and picks for Deman. WE will be out of the race come February and that will be on you! Want to play meaningful games help the team out for a change!!

You don't remember???


I am BA.


And I'm not trading Crouse.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

"They wanted to send a message that their rebuild was done. They sent that message by pulling off a trade to get top-pairing defenseman Mikhail Sergachev."

This was defiantly Smith. They will be buyers at deadline just wish they would do it sooner. Thats my only beef with BA and the Russians. I really hope they are here next year and I am utterly proven wrong. nothing would make me happier

I don't see the Sergachev trade as some sort of deviation from the plan, forced by upper management like it sounds you do. Sounds more like being given the green light IMO. Keep in mind that BA started this rebuild with what he had to work with in AZ. Meruelo wasn't willing to/able to spend like Smith is.

I don't think that BA had to be convinced or forced to go out and make this trade. It's a logical step in the rebuild that BA might not have been able to do if still in Arizona and I'd wager he was extremely happy that he had ownership's blessing to go out and make a big move like that. I'm sure he's very pleased to have the support of an owner willing to spend.

It probably won't be the last big trade to enhance the rebuild since BA has more to work with in Utah and I don't believe Smith will have to force him to make any of them. It's a part of any rebuild.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Ghost has as many points as Sergi this year, and he is as good or better on D. We got a third for him. BA won the trade for Ghost, but lost when he traded him away. No GM wins on every trade. I hope we catch fire and make the playoffs, I think we have a shot at it. But if we don't, NHL coaches that spend 4 years missing the playoffs and GMs that spend 5 years missing the playoffs get fired. Thats just how it works.

I know you know that Sergachev is 10x the defender Ghost is. Sergachev is a true #1D, much like OEL in his hey day. Ghost is a liability 5on5...but I liked Ghost and would welcome him back if we wanted to get him back.

But once Durzi returns he's basically a younger Ghost, our D core just has to get healthy. I'm really looking forward to next year when it should be really good

Sergachev/Marino
Simashev/Durzi
Maatta/Kesselring
MavLam

 

[Mosby]

You don't call around to every single team asking if their 1D is available if you're forced to make a trade.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

You don't call around to every single team asking if their 1D is available if you're forced to make a trade.

Yep.

To me it reads like:

The 3 had a meeting at season's end, all 3 agreed D needed to be the main focus of the offseason, Smith said let's make a big statement, BA found it and got it done.

And signed Marino too. There's nothing to read into here.

 

[Mangosteen]

BA has stated many times he’s building his team through the draft. I believe he was told to get a young D man to speed up rebuild. Smith has said numerous times we are out of the rebuild. BA call all 32 teams. TB gave an offer BA said no because he didn’t want to use his guys he drafted. BA reported back and was told to get it done and he did. Great trade but totally different from his earlier statements. This is how I believe the trade went down. He got it done and it was a great trade. Proud of BA. Being in the C Suite is tough.

The only thing I am upset about is how his limited actions with the players injuries. Might be his downfall

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

BA has stated many times he’s building his team through the draft. I believe he was told to get a young D man to speed up rebuild.

it's impossible to build a team using only the draft unless you ignore BPA and draft only for position. Which would be dumb, so it shouldn't be taken too literally... You know better!

Trades were always going to be necessary along the way. Draft BPAs (lots of them,) watch them develop and see what you've got and what the team still needs. Decide what assets to keep and what ones to flip to fill those needs. That's the true meaning of roster building through the draft.

Smith has said numerous times we are out of the rebuild.

Last night Chris Armstrong (Smith's number one guy) said during a pre-game interview that the rebuild was about halfway done. Chris, not Bill. That definitely contradicts any comments Smith has made. Maybe he means that the tanking is over, not the actual rebuild. Nothing else even makes sense.

TB gave an offer BA said no because he didn’t want to use his guys he drafted.

Do you really think trades are so simple that there's no negotiating involved? You're turning a typical back and forth negotiation into a conspiracy. Maybe they asked for Cooley or Guenther first?

BA reported back and was told to get it done and he did.

I doubt it very, very much. I'd bet money BA is haapy about making this deal. There was no arm twisting. It fits what BA is doing here and I'm sure he is pleased.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

The only thing I am upset about is how his limited actions with the players injuries. Might be his downfall

I'm sure he is well aware of what Smith expects. They communicate all the time.

I can't conclude that he has just chosen to ignore him and do whatever he wants instead. If Smith tells him to, he's going to. Since it hasn't happened, I think Smith and both Armstrongs are all in agreement that trading for Maata was enough and now they're just going to wait for the players we already have to join the team.

Sure there's a chance that they're staying out of it and letting BA hang himself, but that contradicts the idea that Smith forced BA to trade for Sergachev.

 

[Jakey53]

They are already playing in a league superior to the AHL. No point going to Tucson.

Training camp will decide that.

 

[Jakey53]

I know you know that Sergachev is 10x the defender Ghost is. Sergachev is a true #1D, much like OEL in his hey day. Ghost is a liability 5on5...but I liked Ghost and would welcome him back if we wanted to get him back.

But once Durzi returns he's basically a younger Ghost, our D core just has to get healthy. I'm really looking forward to next year when it should be really good

Sergachev/Marino
Simashev/Durzi
Maatta/Kesselring
MavLam

Maata is a UFA. You are missing Valimaki and Koly. MavLam I think will be in top six, and also there could be a trade as well.

 

[Jakey53]

BA has stated many times he’s building his team through the draft. I believe he was told to get a young D man to speed up rebuild. Smith has said numerous times we are out of the rebuild. BA call all 32 teams. TB gave an offer BA said no because he didn’t want to use his guys he drafted. BA reported back and was told to get it done and he did. Great trade but totally different from his earlier statements. This is how I believe the trade went down. He got it done and it was a great trade. Proud of BA. Being in the C Suite is tough.

The only thing I am upset about is how his limited actions with the players injuries. Might be his downfall

Ba said draft AND trades. I never heard once that Smith said we are out of the rebuild, in fact I heard the other Armstrong said the team is about 50% done, and I think Smith said the same, or something like that. Also BA has said several time after the trade he is staying the course with the rebuild.

Yep.

To me it reads like:

The 3 had a meeting at season's end, all 3 agreed D needed to be the main focus of the offseason, Smith said let's make a big statement, BA found it and got it done.

And signed Marino too. There's nothing to read into here.

I don't think you need a meeting to agree the D was Utah's main weakness. EVERY fan has known this for the last year or so.

 

[Jakey53]

it's impossible to build a team using only the draft unless you ignore BPA and draft only for position. Which would be dumb, so it shouldn't be taken too literally... You know better!

Trades were always going to be necessary along the way. Draft BPAs (lots of them,) watch them develop and see what you've got and what the team still needs. Decide what assets to keep and what ones to flip to fill those needs. That's the true meaning of roster building through the draft.



Last night Chris Armstrong (Smith's number one guy) said during a pre-game interview that the rebuild was about halfway done. Chris, not Bill. That definitely contradicts any comments Smith has made. Maybe he means that the tanking is over, not the actual rebuild. Nothing else even makes sense.



Do you really think trades are so simple that there's no negotiating involved? You're turning a typical back and forth negotiation into a conspiracy. Maybe they asked for Cooley or Guenther first?



I doubt it very, very much. I'd bet money BA is haapy about making this deal. There was no arm twisting. It fits what BA is doing here and I'm sure he is pleased.

Good post.