Official 2024-25 Utah HC Season Discussion.

[TheLegend]

We were talking about Ottawa trading Chych, which had nothing to do with Chych. Ottawa had too many LD and Chych was the easiest to move because of contract.

Ah..... well.... could be they had buyer's remorse too.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

I didn't realize it before, but while looking into the OEL/Garland trade I saw that the 2nd round pick BA got from VAN along with the 9th OA was the one used to trade for Jack McBain.

Edit: And they're both roommates in Utah. Just a little coinkydink.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Ah..... well.... could be they had buyer's remorse too.

There may have been.

I can't find the thread now, but right after the trade and again when I checked back after he had played a few games for OTT, I recall a lot of their fanbase here on HFB saying that Chychrun was redundant on their roster and what they really needed was a defensive d-man. Plenty of them felt Cych was the wrong guy from the beginning and would eventually be the odd man out.

Kind of looks like it played out that way.

 

[cobra427]

Why is simple..... Chychun did not want to go through another rebuild.

When BA came on he talked to every player on the roster then about what is plans were. Chychrun was the only player who wanted to opt out of it.

The delay was caused by him getting hurt during one of his torture chamber off-season workouts.

BA hired 9/2020
OEL traded 7/2021, BA claims this as the start of the rebuild.
Chych traded 3/2023

It took almost a year to move OEL, it took 2 1/2 years to move Chych. Sure seems like a long time to move a guy if he told him he didn't want to be part of the rebuild. Both players and the rest of the team knew they were going to get moved, how do you think they play in the mean time?

There are other factors like team chemistry and gathering assets earlier in the process so they can come to fruition sooner. Waiting 12-30 months to move players you know you need to move to rebuild is way too long. It doesn't take that long to establish market value, and anything more you get by waiting, you likely more than lose more because of the time it took.

I have good reason to believe BA was asking for way too much for both players and he had to settle for a much lower return then he had hoped for initially. Think about a car or a house or any asset you try to sell and it winds up on the market for 12 months or more, in order to sell it the price usually has to come down, not go up. Its crazy to think BA got more or much more by waiting, and I think he got less, I think he over played his hand.

Last point, Chych's workouts were not the cause of his recurring injuries.....

 

[TheLegend]

BA hired 9/2020
OEL traded 7/2021, BA claims this as the start of the rebuild.
Chych traded 3/2023

It took almost a year to move OEL, it took 2 1/2 years to move Chych. Sure seems like a long time to move a guy if he told him he didn't want to be part of the rebuild. Both players and the rest of the team knew they were going to get moved, how do you think they play in the mean time?

There are other factors like team chemistry and gathering assets earlier in the process so they can come to fruition sooner. Waiting 12-30 months to move players you know you need to move to rebuild is way too long. It doesn't take that long to establish market value, and anything more you get by waiting, you likely more than lose more because of the time it took.

I have good reason to believe BA was asking for way too much for both players and he had to settle for a much lower return then he had hoped for initially. Think about a car or a house or any asset you try to sell and it winds up on the market for 12 months or more, in order to sell it the price usually has to come down, not go up. Its crazy to think BA got more or much more by waiting, and I think he got less, I think he over played his hand.

Last point, Chych's workouts were not the cause of his recurring injuries.....

Oh???

Arizona Coyotes send Jakob Chychrun to AHL for conditioning

The Arizona Coyotes announced Tuesday that injured defeneseman Jakob Chychrun has been assigned to the AHL's Tucson Roadrunners for conditioning purposes.

arizonasports.com

That was 2017. Hurt his other knee and ankle after that.

Then he stopped shooting..... He was turning into OEL light.

Gets traded to Ottawa and continues to spend time on IR......

Senators Jakob Chychrun explains how injury woes have impacted his time on ice

The Ottawa Senators defenseman Jakob Chychrun's journey has been marked by injuries, impacting his on-ice performance.

www.sportskeeda.com

Capitals..... not much better....

Capitals place Jakob Chychrun on injured reserve with upper-body injury

The Caps recalled Vincent Iorio from the AHL in response to the injury update.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

BA hired 9/2020
OEL traded 7/2021, BA claims this as the start of the rebuild.

Even though 10 months passed by (not a year) on the calendar between BA's hiring and OEL's trade there was a big 4 months long period right in the middle that BA could not trade him because OEL wouldn't allow it.

Hopefully I didn't mess up any dates, but this is what the full story looks like:

BA hiring announced:
September 17, 2020

(4 Months later)

OEL trade freeze begins (OEL utilizing his NTC to block an in-season trade):
Jan.13th through May 19th, 2021 (COVID modified season)

(2 months later)

OEL traded to VAN:
July 23, 2021

Remove the trade freeze and it took BA 6 months of time in which OEL could actually be traded, to trade him. With a 4 month trade freeze in the middle of it. Only two teams to deal with, A bad contract, a declining player at the time, little to no leverage... STILL got Guenther and McBain out of the deal.

Work of art IMO.

 

[Mangosteen]

It’s easy to destroy a team and teach it to be a loser, now we get to see if BA is any good. Went with some off board picks and had ownership and arena excuses. Now we get to see how BA does at pulling out of the rebuild and install a winning culture. I really hope he can do it! I believe the best thing BA has done is the Serg trade. Work of art but my gut says that was directed by Smith and Armstrong. Still believe that if we don’t make the playoffs this year he’s a goner. His lack of action for defence will his down side. But let’s put this negativity away and enjoy the playoff hunt and some good hockey.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

What I want to see is another "Sergachev" type trade where we go out and get a poor man's #1C for Hayton and some draft picks because Iginla it seems is a winger and Beaudoin is a 3rd line C at best.

Which means we're still missing the true #1C (caveat: Cooley will get there I'm sure, but he's not there yet) and it would certainly be impactful to get another first line player to saddle between Keller & Schmaltz.

Let's say we target Bo Horvat - Islanders are out of the playoff picture and they have Barzal, so maybe we could get Horvat on the cheap or at least not for a 'huge' payoff. Horvat is only 29, so he could be a stop gap until Cooley turns into the #1C and we find another player to be the #2C

 

[Jamieh]

What I want to see is another "Sergachev" type trade where we go out and get a poor man's #1C for Hayton and some draft picks because Iginla it seems is a winger and Beaudoin is a 3rd line C at best.

Which means we're still missing the true #1C (caveat: Cooley will get there I'm sure, but he's not there yet) and it would certainly be impactful to get another first line player to saddle between Keller & Schmaltz.

Let's say we target Bo Horvat - Islanders are out of the playoff picture and they have Barzal, so maybe we could get Horvat on the cheap or at least not for a 'huge' payoff. Horvat is only 29, so he could be a stop gap until Cooley turns into the #1C and we find another player to be the #2C

Nothing cheap about Horvat's contract. And that pesky NTC. Will start next year 30 years old with 6 years left at $8.5

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Well, current list of UFA C's

Player - Age - Current Salary - GP/G/A/Pts

Tavares - 34 - $11M - 36/19/18/37
Granlund - 32 - $5M - 37/11/23/34
Duchene - 33 - $3M - 35/14/19/33
Bennett - 28 - $4.425M - 35/13/24/27
Roslovic - 28 - $2.8M - 36/16/8/24


Bennett, Roslovic or Granlund I guess I would like, it all depends on the salary

 

[cobra427]

Even though 10 months passed by (not a year) on the calendar between BA's hiring and OEL's trade there was a big 4 months long period right in the middle that BA could not trade him because OEL wouldn't allow it.

Hopefully I didn't mess up any dates, but this is what the full story looks like:

BA hiring announced:
September 17, 2020

(4 Months later)

OEL trade freeze begins (OEL utilizing his NTC to block an in-season trade):
Jan.13th through May 19th, 2021 (COVID modified season)

(2 months later)

OEL traded to VAN:
July 23, 2021

Remove the trade freeze and it took BA 6 months of time in which OEL could actually be traded, to trade him. With a 4 month trade freeze in the middle of it. Only two teams to deal with, A bad contract, a declining player at the time, little to no leverage... STILL got Guenther and McBain out of the deal.

Work of art IMO.

You mean like the Gost trade for a third round pick, thats another BA "work of art" for sure, who needs the 27 points (7th best) Ghost has this year, that third round pick is going to be a a winner

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

You mean like the Gost trade for a third round pick, thats another BA "work of art" for sure, who needs the 27 points (7th best) Ghost has this year, that third round pick is going to be a a winner

Don't forget the 2nd and 7th round picks PHI gave us to take him. Got 2nd, 3rd, and 7th round picks out of Ghost. Cost us nothing. Yes, another work of art.

 

[cobra427]

Don't forget the 2nd and 7th round picks PHI gave us to take him. Got 2nd, 3rd, and 7th round picks out of Ghost. Cost us nothing. Yes, another work of art.

Trading Ghost for a third was a terrible trade...You guys act like BA is the second coming of Scotty Bowman, he's not.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Trading Ghost for a third was a terrible trade...

Maybe. You're the market specialist.

Still, doesn't take any luster off of the OEL trade. Maybe time was more valuable than the return

 

[Kaizen]

Trading Ghost for a third was a terrible trade...You guys act like BA is the second coming of Scotty Bowman, he's not.

Bowman was a hell of a coach - GM? Not so much.

 

[Mangosteen]

Legend, can you add a poll mid thread? Would love to see what’s the feeling of adding Ivan Provorov for 2025 1st rounder top 5 protected. Adds another Russian “if” our kids come over next year and a great pairing for Serg. Gives us the support we need now and more tradable assets when our players come back. Blue Jackets have made it clear they don’t want players they want a first for Provorov.

 

[Jakey53]

Oh???

Arizona Coyotes send Jakob Chychrun to AHL for conditioning

The Arizona Coyotes announced Tuesday that injured defeneseman Jakob Chychrun has been assigned to the AHL's Tucson Roadrunners for conditioning purposes.

arizonasports.com

That was 2017. Hurt his other knee and ankle after that.

Then he stopped shooting..... He was turning into OEL light.

Gets traded to Ottawa and continues to spend time on IR......

Senators Jakob Chychrun explains how injury woes have impacted his time on ice

The Ottawa Senators defenseman Jakob Chychrun's journey has been marked by injuries, impacting his on-ice performance.

www.sportskeeda.com

Capitals..... not much better....

Capitals place Jakob Chychrun on injured reserve with upper-body injury

The Caps recalled Vincent Iorio from the AHL in response to the injury update.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Fans have no idea what players go through during their career. Chych has only missed five games the last year and a half. That's not bad playing a hard position. I really like Chych as a player, and a person. I will always hope the best for him.

 

[Jakey53]

It’s easy to destroy a team and teach it to be a loser, now we get to see if BA is any good. Went with some off board picks and had ownership and arena excuses. Now we get to see how BA does at pulling out of the rebuild and install a winning culture. I really hope he can do it! I believe the best thing BA has done is the Serg trade. Work of art but my gut says that was directed by Smith and Armstrong. Still believe that if we don’t make the playoffs this year he’s a goner. His lack of action for defence will his down side. But let’s put this negativity away and enjoy the playoff hunt and some good hockey.

I think Tampa are more than happy with that trade. They got two pretty good players in return and cap relief. Both teams got what they needed. A good old hockey trade.

 

[Jakey53]

Legend, can you add a poll mid thread? Would love to see what’s the feeling of adding Ivan Provorov for 2025 1st rounder top 5 protected. Adds another Russian “if” our kids come over next year and a great pairing for Serg. Gives us the support we need now and more tradable assets when our players come back. Blue Jackets have made it clear they don’t want players they want a first for Provorov.

It's a no from me. We might have a couple of kids ready to make the jump next year, and Durzi and Marino will be back. Hate trading first rounders.

 

[Jakey53]

Well, current list of UFA C's

Player - Age - Current Salary - GP/G/A/Pts

Tavares - 34 - $11M - 36/19/18/37
Granlund - 32 - $5M - 37/11/23/34
Duchene - 33 - $3M - 35/14/19/33
Bennett - 28 - $4.425M - 35/13/24/27
Roslovic - 28 - $2.8M - 36/16/8/24


Bennett, Roslovic or Granlund I guess I would like, it all depends on the salary

Nothing there screams 1C. Having said that, most could be a 1C for Utah. Our depth a C is good, but the talent for that position is not.. I do love Bennett and the way he plays.

 

[Jakey53]

Don't forget the 2nd and 7th round picks PHI gave us to take him. Got 2nd, 3rd, and 7th round picks out of Ghost. Cost us nothing. Yes, another work of art.

Why is it that when we have a player, coach or GM they are great, yet when they get traded or fired we shit on them? Remember Chyka who most thought was top 5 GM? Winning is all that matters to ownership. What BA and Bear does now or in the past will all be forgotten if Utah shits the bed going forward.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Why is it that when we have a player, coach or GM they are great, yet when they get traded or fired we shit on them? Remember Chyka who most thought was top 5 GM? Winning is all that matters to ownership. What BA and Bear does now or in the past will all be forgotten if Utah shits the bed going forward.

All I did was point out that BA got more out of Ghost than a third rounder and actually got good assets to take him off of PHI hands and I think it was a really good move on BA's part. Perfect example of fleecing another GM.

Hardly means I think that BA is the "second coming" of anything. I do like the moves he's made on the way to the big picture though. Big picture still TBD so I reserve the right to turn sour on BA at any time if I feel it's deserved. Like I did on Chayka when he traded for Hall.

It's too early to grade the rebuild so until then I'll rate each individual move he makes along the way. Right now I'm very, very pleased.

 

[Jakey53]

All I did was point out that BA got more out of Ghost than a third rounder and actually got good assets to take him off of PHI hands and I think it was a really good move on BA's part. Perfect example of fleecing another GM.

Hardly means I think that BA is the "second coming" of anything. I do like the moves he's made on the way to the big picture though. Big picture still TBD so I reserve the right to turn sour on BA at any time if I feel it's deserved. Like I did on Chayka when he traded for Hall.

It's too early to grade the rebuild so until then I'll rate each individual move he makes along the way. Right now I'm very, very pleased.

I would say that right now BA and Bear have gained our trust and deserve to be given a bit more patience from fans and ownership.

Ah..... well.... could be they had buyer's remorse too.

I think it was Chych being a LD on a good contract. Washington got a steal on that trade.

 

[Mangosteen]

C

I would say that right now BA and Bear have gained our trust and deserve to be given a bit more patience from fans and ownership.

I agree but soon.. the clock is ticking

 

[TheLegend]

Fans have no idea what players go through during their career. Chych has only missed five games the last year and a half. That's not bad playing a hard position. I really like Chych as a player, and a person. I will always hope the best for him.