Official 2024-25 Utah HC Season Discussion.

[sundance74]

physical doesn't mean unfair - maybe we should be more physical upfront to prevent getting into situations where only an unfair attempt to stop opponent's play can safe our lives.
((( to make it clear: i've never really played hockey myself, seriously as team sport - but handball. i guess it is comparable, since both sports are no indoor yoyo contests )))

 

[Mosby]

Interesting that we are one of the least physical teams. Yet, we are the most penalized team in the league (even with O'Brien only playing 3 games).

I'd be fine with all the penalties if we were tough and intimidating. Unfortunately, we are not. Rather, dumb and lazy.

 

[cobra427]

Stu Grimsom thinks Keller needs to get it going, he’s not wrong, Keller does drive this team. Brings up a thought I’ve been pondering and that is perhaps the captaincy is not looking good on him, just a thought.
Rupper thinks it’s just a matter of shaking the long standing losing culture (new franchise or not) and that they’re making headway.
Both see UHC as ahead of the Canadiens in their progression.

Montreal made the finals a few years ago, we should be way ahead of them in a rebuild but we are not, only slightly, maybe.

 

[cobra427]

I'd be fine with all the penalties if we were tough and intimidating. Unfortunately, we are not. Rather, dumb and lazy.

The players are behind the play, so they have to hook and hold a little here and there to try and make plays or avoid blatant mistakes that turn into goals. This is a team D problem, players are not in the correct positions on D, I think this is a coaching issue, you can teach this, it needs to be better, this isn't a talent problem. As a team we can be better on D, thats on our coach mostly in my opinion. Its been the same for years now.

 

[cobra427]

Just finished listening to All Utah Hockey, and I kind of agree with them. I guess I thought we should be better than we are. Maybe I'm wrong. They do think Bear may have to adjust his system, and Belle said Bear should call out the leadership group for not pulling their weight, excluding Sergachev. We all have opinions, and some think they have the answers. It is what it is.

I listened as well, I see their points, keep in mind they are close to the team and are likely biased in their assessments. Easy to look at points/goals and say Keller/Schmaltz/Crouse need to have more goals/points. Keller/Crouse/Schmaltz would agree with them.

The biggest problem consistently is team D, Bear has a built in excuse, to his credit he isn't using it, that Durzi/Marino are out. Team D can get better with coaching, Tip was very good at this, getting more with less on D. I have not really seen the team D improve under Bear in the last 4 years. The whole hasn't been better then the parts ever, unless we have great goal tending.

I think they are right though, in that we are exactly where we should be based on what we have today. I hope once Durzi/Marino are back, the team takes a step forward and team D improves, we get more wins and make the playoffs, we aren't out of it right now. But, I do also suspect that Bear doesn't get the most out of the players as a group, and also partly think the team is misconstructed by BA, built wingers first, then D/C. It is fun to see all the young offensive talent we have now, we have never had that before.

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Just listened to Petey and he's not happy with Keller either, and also Schmaltz and Crouse. Maybe I was wrong about Keller.

You need to put the analytics down and watch the games again, you were a lot smarter back when you did.

Interesting that we are one of the least physical teams. Yet, we are the most penalized team in the league (even with O'Brien only playing 3 games).

That’s one of my biggest issues with the club. I don’t think we’ve out hit a team this season and I don’t see that changing as we are currently constructed. If playoffs were ever achieved, it would be epic fail.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I'd be fine with all the penalties if we were tough and intimidating. Unfortunately, we are not. Rather, dumb and lazy.

I was fine with Mavlam’s crosschecks the other night. Like you say, at least he was being tough.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Montreal made the finals a few years ago, we should be way ahead of them in a rebuild but we are not, only slightly, maybe.

I understand and am fully aware of your obsession of when the rebuild started, your opinion of BA’s unwillingness to act as quickly as you deem necessary, just like I’m aware of Jakey’s obsession with players draft positions and placement in, or out of the lineup.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I listened as well, I see their points, keep in mind they are close to the team and are likely biased in their assessments. Easy to look at points/goals and say Keller/Schmaltz/Crouse need to have more goals/points. Keller/Crouse/Schmaltz would agree with them.

The biggest problem consistently is team D, Bear has a built in excuse, to his credit he isn't using it, that Durzi/Marino are out. Team D can get better with coaching, Tip was very good at this, getting more with less on D. I have not really seen the team D improve under Bear in the last 4 years. The whole hasn't been better then the parts ever, unless we have great goal tending.

I think they are right though, in that we are exactly where we should be based on what we have today. I hope once Durzi/Marino are back, the team takes a step forward and team D improves, we get more wins and make the playoffs, we aren't out of it right now. But, I do also suspect that Bear doesn't get the most out of the players as a group, and also partly think the team is misconstructed by BA, built wingers first, then D/C. It is fun to see all the young offensive talent we have now, we have never had that before.

Happy Thanksgiving!

What you’re omitting is that Tippett did not believe the NHL was a developmental league. I won’t argue he had great defenses, but he also had mid tier vets that understood and accepted the defensive role, as opposed to green kids that are still learning. Let’s not forget that a lot of those mid tier vets were once prolific goal scores in Jr’s as well, maybe not to the extent of some of what we now have, but definitely more offensive minded, at a young age.

 

[PuckLife]

Last game Bear sat Bugsy after a penalty - that's a step in the right direction. I love what MavLam brings to the table but his penalties are killing us - especially the O-zone ones.

 

[cobra427]

What you’re omitting is that Tippett did not believe the NHL was a developmental league. I won’t argue he had great defenses, but he also had mid tier vets that understood and accepted the defensive role, as opposed to green kids that are still learning. Let’s not forget that a lot of those mid tier vets were once prolific goal scores in Jr’s as well, maybe not to the extent of some of what we now have, but definitely more offensive minded, at a young age.

Tip got more with less, especially on D, and pretty much every year. Bear has not done that (yet). You think its about talent/vets/players, I think its about coaching. Everyone was a scorer in juniors, doesn't mean anything in the NHL.

We never beat the Vegas odds in points for the year, but we have fallen below them. The team has never performed above expectations under Bear/BA. We are in BAs 5th year and Bears 4th year, we can't say " oh my gosh BA has put together a world beating roster and Bear has the team playing at a high level, or we are 20 points better then expected for a year". No big jumps (yet).

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

When Tippett took over as coach for the Phoenix Coyotes they were one of the youngest teams in the NHL (below NHL average.) It quickly became one of the oldest teans in the league (well above average) because he brought in a lot of defensively responsible, vanilla, passed their prime veterans to play vanilla hockey. Get the lead then forget offense and clamp down hard on defense type of hockey.

Not sure that he actually got more out of his players. I think he put together the right players for that style of play. It was clear Tipp had a lot of influence on roster decisions back then and was given a tight budget with a directive to still win any way possible so D was everything.

In contrast, AT is developing young players to play the game the right way at both ends of the ice. His teams are much less experienced than Tippetts were and he also has a different set of expectations of him from the GM, at least for now.

Both coaches were working with completely different roster types with different expectations. Tippett said the NHL wasn't a developmental league so he wasn't even willing to do what AT is doing.

 

[cobra427]

When Tippett took over as coach for the Phoenix Coyotes they were one of the youngest teams in the NHL (below NHL average.) It quickly became one of the oldest teans in the league (well above average) because he brought in a lot of defensively responsible, vanilla, passed their prime veterans to play vanilla hockey. Get the lead then forget offense and clamp down hard on defense type of hockey.

Not sure that he actually got more out of his players. I think he put together the right players for that style of play. It was clear Tipp had a lot of influence on roster decisions back then and was given a tight budget with a directive to still win any way possible so D was everything.

In contrast, AT is developing young players to play the game the right way. His teams are much less experienced than Tippetts were and he also has a different set of expectations of him from the GM, at least for now.

Both coaches were working with completely different roster types with different expectations. Tippett said the NHL wasn't a developmental league so he wasn't even willing to do what AT is doing.

Why? Because it's harder to win that way.

First year under Tip, 30 point improvement with the same roster. Lets see bear get a 10-20 point improvement.....

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

First year under Tip, 30 point improvement with the same roster. Lets see bear get a 10-20 point improvement.....

Considering who he took over for I'm not impressed. Gretzky might be the worst coach ever. He had no right to even be there really.

Nothing but a desperate PR stunt that obviously flopped hard like the times were back then.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Tip got more with less, especially on D, and pretty much every year. Bear has not done that (yet). You think its about talent/vets/players, I think its about coaching. Everyone was a scorer in juniors, doesn't mean anything in the NHL.

We never beat the Vegas odds in points for the year, but we have fallen below them. The team has never performed above expectations under Bear/BA. We are in BAs 5th year and Bears 4th year, we can't say " oh my gosh BA has put together a world beating roster and Bear has the team playing at a high level, or we are 20 points better then expected for a year". No big jumps (yet).

You miss the point, point being that we may have players that believe (as many here do) that they are still goal scorers. Not to mention that defensive responsibility is the hardest part for the kids to accept and learn. I feel like you’re ready and seemingly eager to label both BA and Bear as failures prematurely. That’s fine, but I’m not ready to yet, particularly in Bears case, but (unlike you) I’m also willing to be patient with BA… hell, I’ve been waiting for two decades, what’s a couple/few more years?

Edit: and oh, I don’t give a flying puke about Vegas odds makers.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

When Tippett took over as coach for the Phoenix Coyotes they were one of the youngest teams in the NHL (below NHL average.) It quickly became one of the oldest teans in the league (well above average) because he brought in a lot of defensively responsible, vanilla, passed their prime veterans to play vanilla hockey. Get the lead then forget offense and clamp down hard on defense type of hockey.

Not sure that he actually got more out of his players. I think he put together the right players for that style of play. It was clear Tipp had a lot of influence on roster decisions back then and was given a tight budget with a directive to still win any way possible so D was everything.

In contrast, AT is developing young players to play the game the right way at both ends of the ice. His teams are much less experienced than Tippetts were and he also has a different set of expectations of him from the GM, at least for now.

Both coaches were working with completely different roster types with different expectations. Tippett said the NHL wasn't a developmental league so he wasn't even willing to do what AT is doing.

This post is likeable enough, but a team has to play solid D, real solid to be effective. Situation is definitely apples to oranges though.

Considering who he took over for I'm not impressed. Gretzky might be the worst coach ever. He had no right to even be there really.

Nothing but a desperate PR stunt that obviously flopped hard like the times were back then.

The FOG was bad news, but I still like to believe we’d have had some success, had the lock out not occurred. There were some good players on that roster that didn’t survive the year off.