Offers for Eric Lindros in 1992 (Info from Doug MacLean’s new book)

[Crocodiligator]

By the way I recall that the Yzerman for Lindros rumor was most likely just that — a rumor. I believe it was originally started by a Toronto newspaper (citing an unknown source), which was later inflated by Montreal's Le Journal. They claimed as if Detroit was willing to trade Stevie Y, Chaisson, two first-round picks and two second-round picks in exchange for Big E. So eventually Bryan Murray ended up having to personally refute it. He said someting like "It is just way out of whack, nothing going on". Whether to believe Murray or not is another question, but still he did not refute the rumor about the Fedorov package.

 

[mrhockey193195]

I don't recall that comment by Gretzky in his book. That's... weird.

I mean, if you're on the same team, you kind of have to go to bat (mixing sports, if I may) for each other, right? Gretzky was the captain of the '91 team, so that's a really odd comment.

While it's true that Gretzky did go eventually go to St. Sault Marie (reluctantly) and then in his pro-career, to Indianapolis and Edmonton, he also avoided the NHL draft completely as a key chess piece in Pocklington's battle of wits with the NHL.

What Gretzky should have said to Keenan, in my opinion, was, "Yes, I'll room with the kid. Don't worry, I'll keep him in line and support him."

I take that quote to be quite literal: Gretz didn't want to room with Lindros because of the threats against Eric & safety concerns. I don't think Wayne was directly commenting on whether Eric's decision to not play for the Nords was right or wrong.

 

[GKJ]

View attachment 790433

Yes, he was considered the main piece, but two full seasons into his career it was already clear he wasn’t going to live up go his original billing. He was still viewed as a solid young player with potential, but as a 16-year old in the year prior to his draft season, he was considered a Bobby Clarke clone that was a sure-fire 1st overall pick for 1990. Fans had cooled on him when it was clear he was never going to meet those expectations. So I’m not sure by 1992 if Nordiques fans were all that excited about Ricci as the main piece to a trade for the most hyped prospect in hockey history.

On a personal note, the screenshot above is from The Hockey News issue that was released in the aftermath of the draft and the Lindros trade ruling. My dad had kept this issue as a keepsake after buying it on newsstands in the summer of 1992. It had Lindros on the cover and he thought it could be worth decent money some day (nope..). It would have been around the summer of 2000 when I was searching through our computer desk and I came across it. This about a week or two after I discovered his old copy of the 1992 THN Yearbook. I laugh now, because being a kid at the time, that felt like finding items from the 60’s even though they were less than a decade old. Reading those old issues is basically what kickstarted my big-time collecting hobby. I was just completely fascinated by reading those old issues of The Hockey News.

Here’s what the Full Spectrum book (by Jay Greenberg) has to say about it.

A local radio host here in Philly, Glen Macnow, who worked for the Inquirer at the time with Morganti, sometimes tells a fun anecdote. I don’t know how I could find audio of it but I’ve heard it more than once. He was on the floor next to Russ Farwell when the chaos with the trade was going down and Farwell just vents to him that he has the trade done upon being asked why he’s so upset since everything that happened, happened. He had the scoop before anyone else in the industry, but because the world was what it was, he couldn’t do anything with it.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Interesting note on Forsberg's development. That was unknown to me...

 

[MadLuke]

What nice about the Rangers offer, is just how pure high value each piece got to be (if Doug Weight still turn into Doug Weight), by 96-98 all those piece were big stars at the same time to create a window.

 

[Stephen]

The kings had some decent prospects on the back end with to go along with Robert Lang but they didn't have a central piece to trade really aside from a young Rob Blake coming off a down sophomore NHL season.

Maybe misremembering, but wasn't a guy like Darryl Sydor more highly rated than Blake back in 1991?

 

[wetcoast]

Maybe misremembering, but wasn't a guy like Darryl Sydor more highly rated than Blake back in 1991?

I'm not sure as Blake was 21 and Sydor was 19 so it might depending on who was asking.

Blake though was already established and had some physicality to his game as well.

Sydor was the higher ranked prospect on draft day no doubt but Blake's game really blossomed at Bowling Green during the 89-90 season.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Maybe misremembering, but wasn't a guy like Darryl Sydor more highly rated than Blake back in 1991?

my memory is entering the 1990-91 season, sydor might have been rated higher. but not by the end of that season.

i don’t remember seeing many dmen regarded as highly coming out of their rookie years than rookie blake. he was considered already on the cusp of stardom and iirc was a darkhorse to make the canada cup team.

sidenote: anyone know why sydor, who was the highest scoring dman in the CHL that year, didn’t make the WJC team?

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

I imagine his ego had something To do with it. Don't think he would want to play 2nd fiddle to Gretzky, aka not be the face of the team.

Dont think its ego as much as how comically lopsided that team would be with two 25 minute a night generational centres.

As it was Ive always suspected the gretzky era kings struggled to make do with ahl-level depth players to compensate for the salary & usage needs of having the team built around Gretzky.

30 years later, I’m still not sure which of these offers was the best available.

Said it before, and Ill say it again, its obviously montreal if the silly cant-let-our-rival-win-the-cup logic gets thrown out the window.

Montreal gets a generational player to build a genuine new dynasty around. Lindros' presence pretty much instantly secures the capital needed to build the bell centre. The gnawing organizational issues with Roy being bigger than the team because he basically was the team go away. Other pieces like keane/carbo also have their own reasons for wanting to move on

On the flip side, anyone that knows Roys personality knows a nordiques cup is basically a lock once hes moved. Even without including Roy in the deal, a package of say any 4 or 5 of muller, corson, keane, carbonneau, desjardins, schneider, Lefebvre, or Leclair would make the nordiques a staggeringly dangerous team with excess experience, defence, checking, secondary scoring...

I think the real question is whether montreal could have ponied up the cash, and how aware the canadian teams were of the coming crunch that the 70c canadian dollar would put on their budgets. Did NHL teams at the time have financial forecasts available showing how far behind the US teams they would be by 2000? (And inferring from that, Lindros to Montreal would make a lot less sense)

 

[mobilus]

My whole "what if" of the Lindros situation is what if he reported to Quebec without fuss. The Nordiques wouldn't have traded Sundin for Clark, as Lindros himself provided toughness. That team would have had Sakic, Sundin and Lindros as their first three centres. Pick any order for lines, wouldn't have mattered. Move to Colorado a couple years later... pick up Roy... what if.

 

[JianYang]

Dont think its ego as much as how comically lopsided that team would be with two 25 minute a night generational centres.

As it was Ive always suspected the gretzky era kings struggled to make do with ahl-level depth players to compensate for the salary & usage needs of having the team built around Gretzky.


Said it before, and Ill say it again, its obviously montreal if the silly cant-let-our-rival-win-the-cup logic gets thrown out the window.

Montreal gets a generational player to build a genuine new dynasty around. Lindros' presence pretty much instantly secures the capital needed to build the bell centre. The gnawing organizational issues with Roy being bigger than the team because he basically was the team go away. Other pieces like keane/carbo also have their own reasons for wanting to move on

On the flip side, anyone that knows Roys personality knows a nordiques cup is basically a lock once hes moved. Even without including Roy in the deal, a package of say any 4 or 5 of muller, corson, keane, carbonneau, desjardins, schneider, Lefebvre, or Leclair would make the nordiques a staggeringly dangerous team with excess experience, defence, checking, secondary scoring...

I think the real question is whether montreal could have ponied up the cash, and how aware the canadian teams were of the coming crunch that the 70c canadian dollar would put on their budgets. Did NHL teams at the time have financial forecasts available showing how far behind the US teams they would be by 2000? (And inferring from that, Lindros to Montreal would make a lot less sense)

Yeah considering that huge building was all privately funded, I don't think they had much free cash to pull it off.

I assume the Habs knew they were moving back in 1991?

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

I find it really hard to believe the Habs and Nords would have ever been able to close out a deal of that magnitude. I can't really explain in proper words the bitterness and intensity of that rivalry on and off the ice, you had to be around and living in the province at the time to fully understand it.

My guess is Savard made the offer because he knew this process would be a media circus and it would look bad on him if he didn't at least try. The end of 1991-92 was also very bitter in Montreal, especially the playoffs against Hartford and Boston, and he knew he had to shake things up.

Yeah considering that huge building was all privately funded, I don't think they had much free cash to pull it off.

I assume the Habs knew they were moving back in 1991?

Yes, the process/studies on figuring out whether they should renovate the Forum or build a new arena started in 1989. They came to the conclusion by 1990 that a new building was needed. The Lindros trade was in June 1992, a year later in late June they broke ground on the new building, so they absolutely had an idea what it would cost to build a new arena by June 1992.

 

[NordiquesForeva]

my memory is entering the 1990-91 season, sydor might have been rated higher. but not by the end of that season.

i don’t remember seeing many dmen regarded as highly coming out of their rookie years than rookie blake. he was considered already on the cusp of stardom and iirc was a darkhorse to make the canada cup team.

sidenote: anyone know why sydor, who was the highest scoring dman in the CHL that year, didn’t make the WJC team?

I followed the World Juniors a bit back then (though I was young). Sydor was cut from camp in December 1990, along with fellow 1990 first rounder Berehowsky. Brisebois was the star returnee on defense, Marshall would have been a lock (top-10 pick in 1989, rugged stay-at-home defender), Snell would have been a lock (back-to-back OHL 1st team all-star nods), and Harlock would have been the more experienced 19-year old you would always see at tournaments from that era.

Sydor would have been outcompeted at camp by fellow 1972 birth years Slaney (offensive d-man, 9th overall in 1990) and Dykhuis (16th overall). I really think that's all there is to it. The most interesting selection was Niedermayer, who was viewed (correctly) as a superstar prospect at the time. He didn't see much ice time during the tournament, however.

The most interesting cut would have been Adam Bennett, the 6th overall pick in 1989. He was cut from camp in both his draft and draft + 1 years (I used to keep notes on such things, and I think he was the highest draft pick to have been cut in back-to-back camps until Michael Dal Colle some ~25 years later)

Roster/Canada/Final

www.hockeycanada.ca

Of course, the following year they ran it back with all of those 1972s on defense and Niedermayer, added Matvichuk and Cullimore, had a 19-year old Lindros and still had a dreadful tournament.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

The biggest what if for me is what if the league didn't screw the Sharks out of the 1st overall pick. Would assume Lindros reports to San Jose, but how do they build around him? Obviously with Falloon (lol) and a rag tag group, they win a series in 1994 and 1995, bottom out in 1996 and 1997, and then ascend back up starting in 1998. Would think they get to a Conference Final with Lindros.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Chicago:

The offer itself isn’t mentioned, but the Hawks and Nordiques apparently appeared to have a deal that would include “a bunch of players and seven draft picks” but Mike Keenan had to go talk to Bill Wirtz to get approval for the $15 million that would be part of the deal. Wirtz nixed that and the deal fell through. He didn’t want to pay the $15 million. Marcel Aubut was under the impression that the Hawks trade was a done deal, and the team even stopped negotiating with Philly because of it.

From my understanding Hawks offer included Belfour, Larmer and Smith

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

The biggest what if for me is what if the league didn't screw the Sharks out of the 1st overall pick. Would assume Lindros reports to San Jose, but how do they build around him? Obviously with Falloon (lol) and a rag tag group, they win a series in 1994 and 1995, bottom out in 1996 and 1997, and then ascend back up starting in 1998. Would think they get to a Conference Final with Lindros.

Since Falloon was their pick at #2 in the Lindros draft, they obviously wouldn’t have built around both those players had they been awarded #1 instead.

Perhaps if Falloon had been available with their next pick at #23 (which, in hindsight, maybe he should have been), but their actual selection Ray Whitney I must say was a decent pickup at that point.

 

[JJ18Sniper]

I've never seen a report of the Islanders making an offer. I'd imagine their ownership problems in the early 90's prohibited them from coming up with the requested cash component.

In October 91' they made the big Lafontaine/Turgeon trade.
Would Quebec have been interested in Lafontaine? He was 26 at the time.

Recent draft pick prospects included: Dave Chyzowski 89' 2nd overall (wasn't a bust yet), Scott Scissions 90' 6th overall (wasn't a bust yet) and Scott Lachance 4th overall (wasn't deemed mediocre yet!). So they had some recent draft capital available.

​

 

[McGarnagle]

I never hear anything of any interest or inquiries from Boston. Lindros the player would be Harry Sinden's dream, especially with Neely being pretty hobbled by 1992. But given his cheapness and unwillingness to compromise I think there's a good chance he didn't want to deal with him or his family at he negotiation table. But probably more importantly, after acquiring Oates in early 1992 they had nothing left to deal to create a package to send back to Quebec. Assuming Bourque, Oates, and Neely were off the table, I dont know what they could muster in 1992 other than Moog, Murray, Juneau, Wesley, Stumpel/Donato, and multiple picks. All in all nothig that would ever compete with what Philly and NY were offering, and Jeremy Jacobs would probably say hard no to adding money. So it makes sense why they were never in the running.