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Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Pt IV | Ah the waiting game sucks, let's play Hungry Hungry Hippos

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The goal should be to sign one of Realmuto, LeMatheiu or Springer first in that order.

This will then open avenues for trades and other FA wanting to come here.
 
IMO, in order for the Jays to make that next leap...you have to acquire proven talent.

While Kluber interests me, he has too many unknowns to be guaranteed a roster spot on a potential wild card team. If we were like Boston or Texas, where we had the luxury to take on that bigger gamble...I'd be for it, but I really want Bauer.
 
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Don't understand the interest in Realmuto. Would rather be patient with Jansen and our other catching prospects than invest a buttload in a guy who may not even be a significant upgrade within a couple years.
 
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Brown Dog said:
Don't understand the interest in Realmuto. Would rather be patient with Jansen and our other catching prospects than invest a buttload in a guy who may not even be a significant upgrade within a couple years.
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Agreed.

He's the big guy I'm least interested in. I'd still be happy if we signed him, but he's not essential.
 
Brown Dog said:
Don't understand the interest in Realmuto. Would rather be patient with Jansen and our other catching prospects than invest a buttload in a guy who may not even be a significant upgrade within a couple years.
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Anytime you have an opportunity to acquire the best at his position for nothing more then money there should always be interest as long as it improves your team. This interest is no different then everyone wanting Lindor when we already had Bichette!!!

Sometimes thinking outside the box is the smarter move. In this case signing Realmuto gives you the opportunity to trade from strength to fill and upgrade other areas since FA are unwilling to come to fill those voids (CF and SP). Remember Realmuto is in the prime of his career and is a 5 tool player. We went out and signed Martin when we did, and although that last year or two of his contract werent worth it. The first 3 years were.
 
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Realmuto is the best catcher in baseball.

He's much better than our current catching prospects. By stating that you'd rather stick with our current catchers, you are by extension saying you think our prospects have likely star potential.

Our best prospects, almost universally agreed across multiple scouting services, are actually CF (Austin Martin), 3B (Groshans), and SP (Pearson, SWR and Manoah).

Why are we signing DJLM (3b), Springer (CF), or Bauer (SP), when the most obvious hole in our line-up is C?

Obviously, there are multiple rotation spots, and injuries to SP are very common, so it makes sense to go hard for SP regardless.
 
Brown Dog said:
I still have confidence that Jansen will be a really good player.
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So do I.

I just think it might be more of an emotional attachment to current players. Objectively, Realmuto is almost certainly going to be much better.
 
Zanks said:
Realmuto is the best catcher in baseball.

He's much better than our current catching prospects. By stating that you'd rather stick with our current catchers, you are by extension saying you think our prospects have likely star potential.

Our best prospects, almost universally agreed across multiple scouting services, are actually CF (Austin Martin), 3B (Groshans), and SP (Pearson, SWR and Manoah).

Why are we signing DJLM (3b), Springer (CF), or Bauer (SP), when the most obvious hole in our line-up is C?

Obviously, there are multiple rotation spots, and injuries to SP are very common, so it makes sense to go hard for SP regardless.
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I disagree the most obvious hole in our lineup is catcher. On the current roster it's pretty clearly 3B, CF, and SP. As far as once you start inserting prospects you have to take diminishing returns into account, and then it becomes just CF and SP. There are 3 outfield positions, 5 starting pitching and only 1 starting catching position on a roster. Of the Jays top 15 prospects only 1(Martin) might be an outfielder. He also might be an infielder. If he is an outfielder we don't know if he can stick at Center. He only played 40 of his 140 college games as an outfielder and only 25 of those in center. I like our SP pool. But as much as I love each guy individually, the bust rate of SP prospects in enormous. You can't just assume current holes will be filled. Meanwhile the Jays have 5 catchers on the 40 man. 2 of which are top 10 prospects(Kirk, Moreno), another is an average MLB catcher right now with much bigger upside(Jansen). The other 2 are a decent prospect(Adams) and an ok backup with both extremely high end and extremely low end MLB results(McGuire).

It's much more likely that the 1 catching position will be filled successfully by 1 of those 5 guys(3 starting potential) than the 3 OF spots will be filled by the current 2 starting caliber outfielders and a great prospect who's a maybe outfielder, or that the 5 SP spots will be filled by Ryu and our 4 SP prospects in the top 10. Long term 3 guys to fill 3 spots(OF), 5 guys to fill 5 spots(SP), or 3 guys to fill 1 spot(C) I'm betting on being successful on the catching side of things as the mostly likely of the 3 here.

I think pitcher and outfielder, specifically centerfielder as the biggest 2 needs. 3rd is a current need but it should be short term given Groshans(SS/3B), Martin(3B/OF), Martinez(SS/3B) as on the way. Which is 1 of the reasons I'd have LaMahieu further down the list.

If we only can have 1 big name my list is pretty easily

Springer
Bauer
LaMahieu/Realmuto
 
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Canada4Gold said:
I disagree the most obvious hole in our lineup is catcher. On the current roster it's pretty clearly 3B, CF, and SP. As far as once you start inserting prospects you have to take diminishing returns into account, and then it becomes just CF and SP. There are 3 outfield positions, 5 starting pitching and only 1 starting catching position on a roster. Of the Jays top 15 prospects only 1(Martin) might be an outfielder. He also might be an infielder. If he is an outfielder we don't know if he can stick at Center. He only played 40 of his 140 college games as an outfielder and only 25 of those in center. I like our SP pool. But as much as I love each guy individually, the bust rate of SP prospects in enormous. You can't just assume current holes will be filled. Meanwhile the Jays have 5 catchers on the 40 man. 2 of which are top 10 prospects(Kirk, Moreno), another is an average MLB catcher right now with much bigger upside(Jansen). The other 2 are a decent prospect(Adams) and an ok backup with both extremely high end and extremely low end MLB results(McGuire).

It's much more likely that the 1 catching position will be filled successfully by 1 of those 5 guys(3 starting potential) than the 3 OF spots will be filled by the current 2 starting caliber outfielders and a great prospect who's a maybe outfielder, or that the 5 SP spots will be filled by Ryu and our 4 SP prospects in the top 10. Long term 3 guys to fill 3 spots(OF), 5 guys to fill 5 spots(SP), or 3 guys to fill 1 spot(C) I'm betting on being successful on the catching side of things as the mostly likely of the 3 here.

I think pitcher and outfielder, specifically centerfielder as the biggest 2 needs. 3rd is a current need but it should be short term given Groshans(SS/3B), Martin(3B/OF), Martinez(SS/3B) as on the way. Which is 1 of the reasons I'd have LaMahieu further down the list.

If we only can have 1 big name my list is pretty easily

Springer
Bauer
LaMahieu/Realmuto
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What is being debated here is comical. Realmuto provides elite hitting (average and power), defense and speed out of the catcher position. Something the Jays have never had and definitely will not have with Jansen. People that think Jansen will turn into this is dreaming. Jansen will be a good catcher I do not doubt that. But if you have an opportunity to sign the best catcher in the game still at the top of his game. You do it.

If Jansen is as good as people are making him out to be, then it shouldnt be a problem dealing him in a deal for a SP that is a glaring hole in our team to become a true contender. I would argue that Realmuto is the must sign with LaMahieu as second. Instantly makes our lineup that much better with an opportunity to deal from a position of strength when it comes to catching and INF.
 
BlueForever75 said:
What is being debated here is comical. Realmuto provides elite hitting (average and power), defense and speed out of the catcher position. Something the Jays have never had and definitely will not have with Jansen. People that think Jansen will turn into this is dreaming. Jansen will be a good catcher I do not doubt that. But if you have an opportunity to sign the best catcher in the game still at the top of his game. You do it.

If Jansen is as good as people are making him out to be, then it shouldnt be a problem dealing him in a deal for a SP that is a glaring hole in our team to become a true contender. I would argue that Realmuto is the must sign with LaMahieu as second. Instantly makes our lineup that much better with an opportunity to deal from a position of strength when it comes to catching and INF.
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Sure. Now lets talk Springer v Grichuk in center, or Bauer v Roark at starting pitcher. We were talking holes. Catcher isn't the biggest hole here, and it likely won't be for a while. That's the point.
 
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Canada4Gold said:
I disagree the most obvious hole in our lineup is catcher. On the current roster it's pretty clearly 3B, CF, and SP. As far as once you start inserting prospects you have to take diminishing returns into account, and then it becomes just CF and SP. There are 3 outfield positions, 5 starting pitching and only 1 starting catching position on a roster. Of the Jays top 15 prospects only 1(Martin) might be an outfielder. He also might be an infielder. If he is an outfielder we don't know if he can stick at Center. He only played 40 of his 140 college games as an outfielder and only 25 of those in center. I like our SP pool. But as much as I love each guy individually, the bust rate of SP prospects in enormous. You can't just assume current holes will be filled. Meanwhile the Jays have 5 catchers on the 40 man. 2 of which are top 10 prospects(Kirk, Moreno), another is an average MLB catcher right now with much bigger upside(Jansen). The other 2 are a decent prospect(Adams) and an ok backup with both extremely high end and extremely low end MLB results(McGuire).

It's much more likely that the 1 catching position will be filled successfully by 1 of those 5 guys(3 starting potential) than the 3 OF spots will be filled by the current 2 starting caliber outfielders and a great prospect who's a maybe outfielder, or that the 5 SP spots will be filled by Ryu and our 4 SP prospects in the top 10. Long term 3 guys to fill 3 spots(OF), 5 guys to fill 5 spots(SP), or 3 guys to fill 1 spot(C) I'm betting on being successful on the catching side of things as the mostly likely of the 3 here.

I think pitcher and outfielder, specifically centerfielder as the biggest 2 needs. 3rd is a current need but it should be short term given Groshans(SS/3B), Martin(3B/OF), Martinez(SS/3B) as on the way. Which is 1 of the reasons I'd have LaMahieu further down the list.

If we only can have 1 big name my list is pretty easily

Springer
Bauer
LaMahieu/Realmuto
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I think your missing the point entirely. The idea of signing Realmuto is to then trade Jansen or one of the other prospects to find those other pieces.
 
dredeye said:
I think your missing the point entirely. The idea of signing Realmuto is to then trade Jansen or one of the other prospects to find those other pieces.
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I was just debating his statement that "the most obvious hole in our line-up is C". Nowhere in that entire post did he mention trading anyone. If that was his point, perhaps he should have mentioned it somewhere. If we struck out on both Springer and Bauer, then I might entertain that. It still wouldn't be my plan A however.
 
Unless they've soured on Jansen's potential or something, I think the key to any potential Realmuto signing is that they have a Jansen trade lined up when the signing happens. The last thing you want to do is pay huge dollars to Realmuto only to find other teams don't value Jansen particularly highly and you're now flipping him as a secondary piece or for a solid bullpen arm or something.
 
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I sure don’t think Jansen is anything special. I don’t even think he’s good. I agree I’d target Realmuto out of the remaining guys. He would also improve our pitching with his game calling and arm strength.
 
Canada4Gold said:
I was just debating his statement that "the most obvious hole in our line-up is C". Nowhere in that entire post did he mention trading anyone. If that was his point, perhaps he should have mentioned it somewhere. If we struck out on both Springer and Bauer, then I might entertain that. It still wouldn't be my plan A however.
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Well I’d certainly agree that catcher is far from our biggest need. I’d love to have realmutto but won’t be upset going forward with Jansen.
 
Gargyn said:
I sure don’t think Jansen is anything special. I don’t even think he’s good. I agree I’d target Realmuto out of the remaining guys. He would also improve our pitching with his game calling and arm strength.
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Well you’d be wrong on whether or not he’s good. His problem right now is that his bat had been bad and he’s been a good hitter coming through the minors so we need to hope if comes around. If it does he could be a star in his own right
 
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