Proposal: NYR - WPG
- Thread starter rangerstu
- Start date
GAGLine
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- Sep 17, 2007
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Took like 7 seconds to look up. Don’t argue with us about our own players, Unknowledgeable Fan.
RempireStateBuilding
Registered User
From the OP: "Upgrade over Strome" Strome being NYR's 2C. It would be a 1A/1B situation with Zibanejad then, if that makes you feel more comfortable.
I never guaranteed anything with Kakko and Laf. I would much rather hold on to a 1st overall and 2nd overall for more than the first 2-3 years of their NHL careers than trade them before they're even actual developed adults, than make a deal that strips NYR of any potential future past the next 2 years if Scheifele moves on. Kakko and Laf, if they make the strides NYR fans hope they do, offer ~10 years of potential high level play. Like I (actually) said, NYR are not a Scheifele and a Copp away from winning a Cup and those 2 do not command 4 1st rounders.
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Ledge And Dairy
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Ledge And Dairy
Registered User
You are back-pedaling. You called Scheifele a 2C. In reality he is a 1C and would usually be considered better than Zibanejad.
Again, I am not arguing the OP's proposal as I am confident NYR declines it. I just think you are defining the players involved poorly. I personally think a Scheifele for Lafreniere swap (roughly 1 for 1) is relatively fair value.
Channelcat
Mennonite
RempireStateBuilding
Registered User
I used the OP's exact words that Scheifele would be an upgrade over Strome, who is NYR's 2C. OP is saying Scheifele would take over that spot, which would be the spot of 2C, with Strome's departure. Again, a 1A/1B situation then if you're more comfortable with that. He would be bouncing between the 1st and 2nd lines depending on who/which lines were clicking and which weren't. Didn't mean to imply he was a 2nd liner at best or that Zibanejad's existence would mean Scheifele can only be a 2C on NYR.
If NYR were 3 years down the road in terms of player development and 1 of Kakko/Laf exploded while the other didn't, but still held value as a solid 200-foot player, then this is the sort of trade I would look in to to finalize a legitimate push for a Cup - getting another top flight center to get better down the middle and take some pressure off Zibanejad. But I don't see why NYR would jump into this today when we still really don't know how Kakko and Laf (and Lundkvist too) will progress.
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smoneil
Registered User
He's a 1C, but the "usually be considered better than Zibanejad" is hyperbolic. Over the last four seasons, the pretty much have identical production (Sheifele has 249 points in 245 games, Zibanejad has 248 points in 242 games). The difference is that Zib knows where the defensive zone is without having a map drawn for him.
Zib is a 2-way center in addition to being an offensive star. Sheifele only plays the half of the rink that he wants to play. He's still a 1C, but not one that I want on my team. We already have a player or two who take their time getting back. No need to add more.
Lafreniere does not get Scheifele 1 for 1. Rangers would have to add a pretty good piece IMO.
Perennial
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- Jun 27, 2020
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I can't say I agree with your take...
If I were Winnipeg, I'd gladly take Lafreniere in a 1-for-1 swap for Scheifele
If you offered me Hischier or Patrick I’d take schief. So draft position isn’t everything. But yes NYR are a great young team no reason to go all in when should be contending for a long time.
If you would accept that as Winnipeg, I guess that really does show that fans would make horrible GM's. That would surely get you fired as Winnipeg's GM the same day.
Laf straight up doesn’t get Scheifele… what has Laf done to prove he has that kind of value since entering the league?
At this point he’s a middle 6 winger, and you think he gets a 1a/b Center 1 for 1…. No Way.
Start with Schneider and add.
Not Laf, not Kravtsov, not LundKvist
No Schneider… no Scheifele
Perennial
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- Jun 27, 2020
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Not much... which is the same that Scheifele had done at a similar point in his NHL career...
Winnipeg would obviously be gambling on Lafreniere's upside & potential... if he had done anything at the NHL level to prove he has that kind of value since entering the league, the Rangers wouldn't be trading him
- Oct 23, 2014
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That's fine because I'm almost sure NYR wouldn't trade Laf for him straight up anyway. I know most of the fans including myself wouldn't have any interest in that.
tlk
hARry kane comeS homE
A. reiterate post 13
B. since you asked, for purposes of constructive dialogue with the hope it leads to enlightenment:
1. I go back to almost the same yr, remember the great Brad Park co-leading us. Good times, Bobby Orr and the arrogance of Cat Francis notwithstanding.
2. I remember those and other deals when we won the '94 cup. We almost lost that year. But more important is to understand whether or not a few less of those deals could have extended our window then.
3. Similarly, this all in bs needs to be called out for what it is in any year. Dealing stud D prospect Mattias Norstrum [sp?] + for Robatille + was a bad move that haunted us for like a decade. Need to be smarter, much smarter, and not go there in the first effin place.
4. As to your specific prop for which you properly ask specific critique, yes, Schief is a worthy target in a vacuum. Howev, the price must be right and more importantly, the currency surrendered must work for NY or then, no, he is not worth it. Also we are now in a hard cap era which cannot be ignored and there are minimum workarounds available, and these usually when an option, these lead to undesirable costs. For example, TB boxed itself so far into a corner, it took on Seabrook. I get he's LTIR, but you don't want to have to go there.
5. paraphrasing you, neither LaF nor KK will be hall of fame. That is not a given. KK is still developing, but LaF has already demonstrated that other than his skating, he is kickin it, as the kids say. And his skating has improved already from atrocious initially and looks to be at satisfactory or better NHL level by next season. This is a guy who was ranked as the most complete, if not the best non generational 1OA selection since MacKinnon. His profiles already suggest that at this level he is in elite company. We do not throw him away. No youth for vets. Youth for youth, vets for vets, no youth for vets. LaF we should ONLY consider for massive overpayment, which only MON would consider, and that is for another thread at another time.
6. "Always remember someone else's junk is some else's gold"; sorry, this is a false assumption. Sometimes gold is gold and junk is junk. Mixing that up and getting it wrong = negative consequences.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
Peace out and consider this ^ with an open mind before jumping to the negative impulse of win now overreach.
- Jul 28, 2011
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Way too many pieces from NYR, unless that's supposed to be read as pick 2 from each ? Kakko and Laf in the same deal just can't happen. Copp is a UFA that we most likely can't afford if he continues his current pace. Our second powerplay unit doesn't score much. I don't think Copp needs to be included if NYR wanted to take a run at Scheifele.
yes to above 2 x 2
Concur. When he chooses, Schief adds otherwise but Zib, eye test says he is always the better skater.
Unfortunately NY cap makes adding Schief for anyone moot.
reminds me of Neil Simon: when you assume, you .....
not if upside etc is taken into account
Fine cause we don't want to move ANY of those guys. Big bad wolf can huff and puff but Schneid goes nowhere
Correctimundo!
