NYR Top 60 Producers of Offense

[suedehead6]

I am hoping to scratch some of the off-season hockey itch by counting down my top 60 offensive players in Rangers history. There are/will be adjusted stats and a shortish write-up for each player. The first few are posted now, and I hope to wrap up the list before 2024-25 opening night. Check it out here: New York Rangers Top 60 Producers of Offense

Click to read more...

 

[Machinehead]

Hell yeah, Derick Brassard!

I'm very interested in this idea of assessing offense above replacement across different eras.

I'm guessing we see a couple of super old guys whose counting stats don't necessarily jump off the page.

 

[Harbour Dog]

I am hoping to scratch some of the off-season hockey itch by counting down my top 60 offensive players in Rangers history. There are/will be adjusted stats and a shortish write-up for each player. The first few are posted now, and I hope to wrap up the list before 2024-25 opening night. Check it out here: New York Rangers Top 60 Producers of Offense

Make sure to bump this thread as you update your list! Or else myself, and the rest of the goldfish, will forget this is a thing.

 

[n8]

I am hoping to scratch some of the off-season hockey itch by counting down my top 60 offensive players in Rangers history. There are/will be adjusted stats and a shortish write-up for each player. The first few are posted now, and I hope to wrap up the list before 2024-25 opening night. Check it out here: New York Rangers Top 60 Producers of Offense

Can you go over what sort of system you use to rank them or is this just your own gut feeling? Like how would you break a tie or will each write-up clarify those type of thoughts?

 

[suedehead6]

Can you go over what sort of system you use to rank them or is this just your own gut feeling? Like how would you break a tie or will each write-up clarify those type of thoughts?

From my link in original post, keep scrolling down for way too much detail about my complicated system.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Some possible names from my youth.
Phil Esposito
Steve Vickers
Anders Hedberg
Ron Greschner
Ulf Nilsson (injury)
Ron Duguay
Don Maloney
Mark Pavelich
Mike Rodgers
Reijo Ruotsalainen
Pierre Larouche
Tomas Sandstrom
Walt Poddubney (led team for 2 seasons)
Kelly Kisio
Kaapo Kakko

 

[will1066]

Some possible names from my youth.
Phil Esposito
Steve Vickers
Anders Hedberg
Ron Greschner
Ulf Nilsson (injury)
Ron Duguay
Don Maloney
Mark Pavelich
Mike Rodgers
Reijo Ruotsalainen
Pierre Larouche
Tomas Sandstrom
Walt Poddubney (led team for 2 seasons)
Kelly Kisio
Kaapo Kakko

Came immediately to mind, along with Kisio. Pavelich always gets the vintage vote, but Podub was right there with him.

Larouche is also a good one.

Leschyshyn is missing. He offended a lot of people greatly.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Came immediately to mind, along with Kisio. Pavelich always gets the vintage vote, but Podub was right there with him.

Larouche is also a good one.

Leschyshyn is missing. He offended a lot of people greatly.

Obviously!

 

[suedehead6]

Some possible names from my youth.
Phil Esposito
Steve Vickers
Anders Hedberg
Ron Greschner
Ulf Nilsson (injury)
Ron Duguay
Don Maloney
Mark Pavelich
Mike Rodgers
Reijo Ruotsalainen
Pierre Larouche
Tomas Sandstrom
Walt Poddubney (led team for 2 seasons)
Kelly Kisio
Kaapo Kakko

I will tell you nine of those names are on my list. Three players you mentioned just barely missed at #s 61, 64, and 65. The way I balanced valuing longer-term "compiling" and shorter-term high production resulted in no players that spent less than parts of three regular seasons with NY cracking the top 60.

 

[Row I Goon]

'Producers of Offence".....???

I thought this was another Poster award.....

 

[Ben Grimm]

If this was the top 60 NYR, I would post my top 15, but it's too off-topic here.

 

[suedehead6]

After I posted the first three players, I had a thought about a better way to measure offense and rank the players. I've obsessed over tinkering with my method for several days, and have a new approach that I think is pretty stinking good.

With the tweaks, Mike Rogers fell from #60 to #66, but the post I did for him is still available. Mark Pavelich went from #58 to #60. Derick Brassard might have gotten the biggest boost of anyone and moved from #59 up to #45.

There's also a fourth player listed now, the new #59. It is a player that I thoroughly enjoyed researching and writing about.

Here's the link again.

 

[NickyFotiu]

After I posted the first three players, I had a thought about a better way to measure offense and rank the players. I've obsessed over tinkering with my method for several days, and have a new approach that I think is pretty stinking good.

With the tweaks, Mike Rogers fell from #60 to #66, but the post I did for him is still available. Mark Pavelich went from #58 to #60. Derick Brassard might have gotten the biggest boost of anyone and moved from #59 up to #45.

There's also a fourth player listed now, the new #59. It is a player that I thoroughly enjoyed researching and writing about.

Here's the link again.

I like Brass a lot but do believe at 45 he is probably ranked higher than better scorers.

 

[eco's bones]

Speaking of Pavelich. In his handful of years with the Rangers he was an absolute offensive catalyst for the Rangers....fairly close to a point a game player but also 24 playoff points in 23 games. He was a very aggressive and feisty player despite being 5'8 in an era when size mattered a lot more than it does today and when players could get away with a lot more physical aggression than they do today. He got run over a lot of times but never really ever backed off from going right back at it. Off the ice though a very quiet personality. There's not much doubt in my mind that his suicide had a lot to do with CTE issues though he also carried some personal demons. The concussions in part were also because of the fearless way he played the game. I liked Brassard as well but Pavelich was a lot closer to a 1C level player than Brassard or even Stepan. He was kind of more like Vincent Trocheck was for us last year.

 

[suedehead6]

I like Brass a lot but do believe at 45 he is probably ranked higher than better scorers.

I was surprised he jumped up that much, and he is definitely ahead of a lot of players that were more productive in regular seasons. He'd be #72 if playoffs weren't a factor. It is tough to know how to best weigh regular season vs. playoff production, but I do think Brassard deserves a substantial boost for having the sixth most postseason goals created above replacement in team history.

 

[suedehead6]

Speaking of Pavelich. In his handful of years with the Rangers he was an absolute offensive catalyst for the Rangers....fairly close to a point a game player but also 24 playoff points in 23 games. He was a very aggressive and feisty player despite being 5'8 in an era when size mattered a lot more than it does today and when players could get away with a lot more physical aggression than they do today. He got run over a lot of times but never really ever backed off from going right back at it. Off the ice though a very quiet personality. There's not much doubt in my mind that his suicide had a lot to do with CTE issues though he also carried some personal demons. The concussions in part were also because of the fearless way he played the game. I liked Brassard as well but Pavelich was a lot closer to a 1C level player than Brassard or even Stepan. He was kind of more like Vincent Trocheck was for us last year.

Appreciate the thoughts. A lot of the fun for me in this project is trying to adjust for and fairly compare different eras. Pavs played in the highest-scoring era in history, so his raw numbers take a big hit, and Brassard comes out ahead on a rate basis. Here are my adjusted NYR numbers per 82:

Pavelich: 25 G, 37 A, 62 P
Brassard: 27 G, 39 A, 66 P

And Brassard gets 47 adjusted playoffs points, which is what really boosts him in my rankings. (Pavelich's adjusted playoffs points are 20.)

 

[eco's bones]

Appreciate the thoughts. A lot of the fun for me in this project is trying to adjust for and fairly compare different eras. Pavs played in the highest-scoring era in history, so his raw numbers take a big hit, and Brassard comes out ahead on a rate basis. Here are my adjusted NYR numbers per 82:

Pavelich: 25 G, 37 A, 62 P
Brassard: 27 G, 39 A, 66 P

And Brassard gets 47 adjusted playoffs points, which is what really boosts him in my rankings. (Pavelich's adjusted playoffs points are 20.)

Well that last year under Ted Sator didn't help his numbers either. There was something demented about Sator. Larouche one of the best Rangers players was cut at the end of training camp and loaned to the Hershey Bears which wasn't even the farm team. Pavelich packs his bags and walks off the team a bit past halfway through the season....after feuding with Sator and getting less and less ice time. Larouche around then is recalled and scores something like 20 goals in 29 games without which the Rangers wouldn't have made the playoffs and at the conclusion of the year Barry Beck retires in his late 20's and Reijo Ruotsalainen the Rangers best offensive D goes back to Finland. They didn't want a second year of Sator either.

At the point that Pavelich left though he probably already had been suffering badly from concussion issues. He played in Europe a little and later on a few games for the Sharks. It was in his DNA to play all out and he was not a big guy. The way his life spiraled downward towards the end was not pretty.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Well that last year under Ted Sator didn't help his numbers either. There was something demented about Sator. Larouche one of the best Rangers players was cut at the end of training camp and loaned to the Hershey Bears which wasn't even the farm team. Pavelich packs his bags and walks off the team a bit past halfway through the season....after feuding with Sator and getting less and less ice time. Larouche around then is recalled and scores something like 20 goals in 29 games without which the Rangers wouldn't have made the playoffs and at the conclusion of the year Barry Beck retires in his late 20's and Reijo Ruotsalainen the Rangers best offensive D goes back to Finland. They didn't want a second year of Sator either.

At the point that Pavelich left though he probably already had been suffering badly from concussion issues. He played in Europe a little and later on a few games for the Sharks. It was in his DNA to play all out and he was not a big guy. The way his life spiraled downward towards the end was not pretty.

I hate what happened to Mark Pavelich. That is one of the reasons I'm very concerned about guys getting multiple concussions in pro sports. We have seen too many deaths from CTE.

 

[eco's bones]

I hate what happened to Mark Pavelich. That is one of the reasons I'm very concerned about guys getting multiple concussions in pro sports. We have seen too many deaths from CTE.

It wasn't taken seriously at all for a long long while. The NHL use to market rivalries that to some degree particularly in the 80's and 90's and 00's had reached the point where teams regularly carried 3/4 guys who were there just to drop gloves. But it was also the way the rules were but also it was entertaining and really pushed rivalries. There were hundreds of former players on the concussion lawsuits, several suicides, other players who have really lost the thread and the NHL still really hasn't taken responsibility for any of it.

It's a combat sport and that's always been in the nature of the game and I like physical play. It's not just meant to be a skills contest. IMO it would be worse without the hitting and the fighting. To me when you enlist in the military you should be aware of the potential that one day you will put your life on the line. If you're not okay with that you shouldn't get involved. The same with a cop or a fireman or even someone who gets involved in high risk construction.....and it doesn't necessarily make you a hero to do any of these things. Sometimes I think we have a really warped way of looking at these things. Usually the more dangerous things pay better anyway. So I think some of this is on the players to know the risks involved. These days when someone gets dinged they have protocols and that's a good thing. It can be frustrating as with Chytil this year but it's for the player's own good that he doesn't come back too soon or if it gets too risky that he stop playing (at least high level) altogether.

 

[suedehead6]

Alright, this has gotten embarrassing, but I have made another FINAL tweak to my rankings. If I stray from these FINAL methods and rankings, may the hockey gods strike me down.

Got another player posted today for a total of five (though only three of them are still actually in the top 60...).

 

[suedehead6]

Numbers 55-60 are posted.

 

[Ratelleitlikeitis]

These profiles offer an outstanding glimpse into Ranger history and are thoroughly enjoyable. Thanks for this labour of love that you have created.

 

[suedehead6]

These profiles offer an outstanding glimpse into Ranger history and are thoroughly enjoyable. Thanks for this labour of love that you have created.

Thanks for the kind words! Great to know somebody out there is enjoying. I told myself I'd crank these out quickly, but I get wrapped up in the research, so I know it is going to be a longer term project than I originally thought. But that's OK.

 

[NickyFotiu]

57. Reijo Ruotsalainen was so much fun to watch! ​

 

[NickyFotiu]

Cool that you have videos of the older guys. I like reminiscing.