Toggle sidebar

Confirmed with Link: NYR Fire John Davidson and Jeff Gorton

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
BBKers said:
You are right. But here are 7 others that are worse:

  • DQs Hiring/insistence of loyalty from top Brass - despite it was crystal clear he was in way over his head
  • Letting Fast go for nothing (2m) and then severely lacking this component whilst also publicly complaining about it
  • The McDonaugh/Miller trade return
  • Stepan/Raantas trade return and the handling of the assets acquired
  • Resigning CK21 instead of optimizing another building block return and handcuffing future cap
  • Uneasiness in the organization while retaining a country club feel and its effect on youth
  • Not bringing in enough grit to “protect” the youngest team in the league...
The moronic Parros letter forced Jungle Jim into a corner and he had to play out his mixed hand while an old school fogy with a stogy whispered into his ear. For better or worse. Now we will see what Chris Drury is made of. Little League World Series winner and all... beware as draft day #2 is on July 24 - a SATURDAY!
Click to expand...

-The Eric Staal trade when it was obvious that team just didn't have it that year and then AV barely used him
-Not trading Yandle at that deadline and instead losing him for nothing (or a 7th round pick or whatever)
-Not firing AV the second the horn sounded after Game 6 against Ottawa
-Signing Shattenkirk instead of kicking off the rebuild right then and there with the Stepan trade with McDonagh on the way out right behind him
-Boxing himself in with a limited market for McDonagh at the deadline and then having to compete for offers with the best defenseman in the league also on the table
-The first top 10 pick in over a decade and someone they managed to mess that up with Andersson
-To a lesser extent having to be the asshole who unnecessarily bought out the best player in franchise history and then months later he's out for the season anyway
 
  • Like
Reactions: ArPanet, Off Sides, RickChartraw and 3 others
BBKers said:
You are right. But here are 7 others that are worse:

  • DQs Hiring/insistence of loyalty from top Brass - despite it was crystal clear he was in way over his head
  • Letting Fast go for nothing (2m) and then severely lacking this component whilst also publicly complaining about it
  • The McDonaugh/Miller trade return
  • Stepan/Raantas trade return and the handling of the assets acquired
  • Resigning CK21 instead of optimizing another building block return and handcuffing future cap
  • Uneasiness in the organization while retaining a country club feel and its effect on youth
  • Not bringing in enough grit to “protect” the youngest team in the league...
The moronic Parros letter forced Jungle Jim into a corner and he had to play out his mixed hand while an old school fogy with a stogy whispered into his ear. For better or worse. Now we will see what Chris Drury is made of. Little League World Series winner and all... beware as draft day #2 is on July 24 - a SATURDAY!
Click to expand...

The Rangers had no idea they would win the lottery with Laf. Resigning Kreider followed by broadcasting the team might not be ready to win is perplexing. I think you can do this for a year yet i get the feeling the plan was to continue going down this road. If we’re not going to win then why keep Kreider? I figured he would be wearing the C.
 
  • Like
Reactions: egelband and ponzu4u
nyr2k2 said:
This take is too molten hot for me to touch, but I will say that of the Ryan Graves trade is the worst move on your resume, you're probably doing okay.
Click to expand...
Wait where did I even remotely say it was the worst move on his resume? I literally said "He wasn't that great but he wasn't a bad GM" in that post lol. That's molten now?

It was a move I completely forgot about on top of the multitude of strikes that I've pointed out at various times the past few seasons, especially this one. He built a losing team his entire time as GM. That's not a hot take, that's reality. Unless we consider a team that has absolutely no chance to make noise in the POs a winner. Last year sure didn't feel like a winner. This year didn't. The team we had when we sent out the letter didn't. (Plus he hadn't yet gotten a chance to really put his stamp on the team by then anyway)

He pulled in some good prospects, he got some all time lotto luck. he also missed on a LOT of prospects. Considering the goal was to build up the pipeline and hit on more top prospects than he hit on...I'd say he was average at best in that dept. His coaching hire never once demonstrated anything other than "placeholder" ability. Many of his FA decisions and some of his re-signs made no sense.

So like I said, he doesn't deserve the rep he seems to have with some people. He was presiding over a competent enough rebuild. "Not bad but not great"If anything that's not a hot take, it feels like it should be obvious.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: egelband
Hi ImHFNYR said:
Always fun watching Ryan Graves play for a top team after we traded him for no reason and got back nothing.
Click to expand...

I remember having similar sentiments last playoffs, watching several recent ex-Rangers standing out -- Shattenkirk playing big minutes for the Cup champs (not to mention Mcdonagh), JT Miller on the top line for the Canucks, Namestikov at one point leading the Avs in goal scoring, Graves playing significant top 4 minutes for the Avs, Hagelin being $$ for the Caps -- and then looking at the pittance of returns and wondering why so many people here were happily proclaiming Gorton a top 5 GM in the league.
 
ponzu4u said:
I remember having similar sentiments last playoffs, watching several recent ex-Rangers standing out -- Shattenkirk playing big minutes for the Cup champs (not to mention Mcdonagh), JT Miller on the top line for the Canucks, Namestikov at one point leading the Avs in goal scoring, Graves playing significant top 4 minutes for the Avs, Hagelin being $$ for the Caps -- and then looking at the pittance of returns and wondering why so many people here were happily proclaiming Gorton a top 5 GM in the league.
Click to expand...
How dare you understand the actual point of what I was getting at, haha

And there's always context of course like realistically I know JT prob needed a change of scenery and even TB didn't get him going.

But it was clearly in there somewhere and our organization failed. Arguably a better coach gets that out of him sooner.

Graves made zero sense at the time.

We've had some rough returns for sure.

Then there are the mixed messages sent with the contracts we've handed out and the Trouba trade. The historically bad underachieving seasons from our top picks. Some of the alarming dysfunction we've seen with certain prospects flat out quitting on the team.

It's astounding how some people legitimately don't consider any of this and more. Or they just hand wave it all so they can continue to assert Gorton was great, tops in the league. Bc I guess being just a good GM is suddenly a hot take
 
  • Like
Reactions: ponzu4u
Hi ImHFNYR said:
Always fun watching Ryan Graves play for a top team after we traded him for no reason and got back nothing. Gorton really wasn't that great. He wasn't bad but he doesn't deserve the rep he has in terms of overall GM skill. He knew how to build a loser and overpay guys. Great. So do half the people here.
Click to expand...
So about that declining intellect level of the posts......
 
True Blue said:
So about that declining intellect level of the posts......
Click to expand...
Yea. I'm looking right at an example in this quote right here. It's kinda become your thing to completely miss the point while making an idiotically condescending remark lol

Any lazy, unintelligent HF user can quote a post and say "Durrr look it's dumb!"

Let's actually look at what I said to find what was so unintelligent about it

"Always fun watching Ryan Graves play for a top team after we traded him for no reason and got back nothing"

We traded him for Bigras.
Graves IS playing for a top team.

I mean, do I really have to go on?

Knowing you, if it isn't spelt out perfectly you'll still miss it. Let's see

"Gorton really wasn't that great. He wasn't bad but he doesn't deserve the rep he has in terms of overall GM skill."

What's your measure of greatness? Somehow I have a feeling Gorton didn't live up to it. But maybe you set a low bar and he did. Let's be super fair and say the first sentence there is just a subjective statement so it should be ignored. Don't see how it's unintelligent but sure.

Second sentence says he wasn't bad.
Wasn't bad.
Should I say it again?
Gorton wasn't bad.

But he didn't deserve the rep he had in terms of overall GM skill. Wow. Take cover folks. Real scalding hot takes here! Real unintelligent stuff!
So what's left?
"He knew how to build a loser" Are we arguing we were division winners? Cup winners? No, we clearly weren't. So ok nothing unintelligent there.

Am I saying we were NOT trending up? No.
Am I saying he ONLY knew how to build a loser? No.
Am I saying he missed on quite a few prospects we drafted or traded for? Yes.
Made some significantly bad FA decisions? Yes.

Wasn't bad. Arguably wasn't great either. There was a mix of significantly good and bad with him.

God willing, maybe this helped you get there blue. I doubt it
 
Last edited:
Hi ImHFNYR said:
Yea. I'm looking right at an example in this quote right here. It's kinda become your thing to completely miss the point while making an idiotically condescending remark.
Click to expand...
It is condescending because the level of your post demanded such a response.
 
The amount of dysfuntion the rangers have had the last 2 seasons warranted firing everyone at the top.
The fiascos with LA and kravy last year and ada this year and how public everything was proves that there was a culture problem at the top.
JD and Gorton deserved to be fired. Clearly the kids need to be grown by more mature and savy minds.
 
True Blue said:
It is condescending because the level of your post demanded such a response.
Click to expand...

Riiiight TB, Anyway when I want to see clowns in action I go to the circus/give someone another shot by taking them off ignore. When the clown shit gets real old, real fast I go home. There was nothing wrong with what I said (which is why you couldn't argue against it.)
 
Last edited:
Captain Monglobster said:
Lots of revisionist history going on in here jesus. If the sentiment around the league was the Rangers were on track with their rebuild, im gonna have to defer to the experts in the field over random fanboys.
Click to expand...
They were on track. Doesn't mean Gorton was great or perfect. Doesn't mean he didn't have some significant mistakes on his resume as GM of the NYR.

Never blindly defer to authority without analyzing a situation in full.
 
Bluto said:
The amount of dysfuntion the rangers have had the last 2 seasons warranted firing everyone at the top.
The fiascos with LA and kravy last year and ada this year and how public everything was proves that there was a culture problem at the top.
JD and Gorton deserved to be fired. Clearly the kids need to be grown by more mature and savy minds.
Click to expand...
This is ridiculous.

Has LA flourished elsewhere?
Kravtsov seems to be none the worse for wear.
The entire league could have had ADA for nothing. And every team passed.
 
JT Kreider said:
-The Eric Staal trade when it was obvious that team just didn't have it that year and then AV barely used him
-Not trading Yandle at that deadline and instead losing him for nothing (or a 7th round pick or whatever)
-Not firing AV the second the horn sounded after Game 6 against Ottawa
-Signing Shattenkirk instead of kicking off the rebuild right then and there with the Stepan trade with McDonagh on the way out right behind him
-Boxing himself in with a limited market for McDonagh at the deadline and then having to compete for offers with the best defenseman in the league also on the table
-The first top 10 pick in over a decade and someone they managed to mess that up with Andersson
-To a lesser extent having to be the asshole who unnecessarily bought out the best player in franchise history and then months later he's out for the season anyway
Click to expand...

JG wasn't perfect. Many of the things listed were low lights. But overall, he was also very good. Been a Rangers fan for over 35 years. The GMs in that time:

1 - Craig Patrick
2 - Phil Esposito
3 - Neil Smith
4 - Glen Sather
5 - Jeff Gorton
6 - Chris Drury

The only GM that rates higher than Jeff Gorton is maybe Craig Patrick. But really, that's because Craig Patrick was handed a young Mario Lemieux on his next team. NYR was a middling team during his tenure and directly thereafter. Espo drafted well and was responsible for the young core that eventually was traded for the one cup we had, but made 3 of the worst trades in team history. Slats was the picture of mediocrity. At least he eventually brought stability. Made some strong trades, made some weak trades but was not a great drafter. Neil Smith brought the cup, but traded away nearly every great young player in the process. Then made a massive bet on Pavel Brendl amongst other bad moves.

Then, there's where JG compares to the current NHL GMs. He's def top 10 and I would argue top 5. Who might rank higher than JG right now -- Yzerman? Brisebois? Lamoriello? McPhee? Waddell? Dubas? Sakic? Blake?

Point is, it's hard to say anyone since the mid 80s rated higher than JG as GM of NYR. And he's in the upper echelon in NHL. So, was it smart to fire him in the middle of a successful rebuild --- no. no it wasn't. It was rash made by someone who couldn't see the forest for the trees.

Let's just hope Drury isn't a fall back to the median. But no doubt the odds are against him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: egelband, CLW and Captain Monglobster
gravey9 said:
JG wasn't perfect. Many of the things listed were low lights. But overall, he was also very good. Been a Rangers fan for over 35 years. The GMs in that time:

1 - Craig Patrick
2 - Phil Esposito
3 - Neil Smith
4 - Glen Sather
5 - Jeff Gorton
6 - Chris Drury

The only GM that rates higher than Jeff Gorton is maybe Craig Patrick. But really, that's because Craig Patrick was handed a young Mario Lemieux on his next team. NYR was a middling team during his tenure and directly thereafter. Espo drafted well and was responsible for the young core that eventually was traded for the one cup we had, but made 3 of the worst trades in team history. Slats was the picture of mediocrity. At least he eventually brought stability. Made some strong trades, made some weak trades but was not a great drafter. Neil Smith brought the cup, but traded away nearly every great young player in the process. Then made a massive bet on Pavel Brendl amongst other bad moves.

Then, there's where JG compares to the current NHL GMs. He's def top 10 and I would argue top 5. Who might rank higher than JG right now -- Yzerman? Brisebois? Lamoriello? McPhee? Waddell? Dubas? Sakic? Blake?

Point is, it's hard to say anyone since the mid 80s rated higher than JG as GM of NYR. And he's in the upper echelon in NHL. So, was it smart to fire him in the middle of a successful rebuild --- no. no it wasn't. It was rash made by someone who couldn't see the forest for the trees.

Let's just hope Drury isn't a fall back to the median. But no doubt the odds are against him.
Click to expand...
It's more alarming how bad GMs are and have been for decades. These are supposed to be the best of the best and there's a LOT of incompetence and dysfunction going around
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom