Nylander won't be traded (core piece)

[Menzinger]

How often do players say., "I love this team and this city, I want to stay long term" and then leave as UFAs. Or GMs, say "We will do every possible to resign XXXXX, he's going to be a big part of the team long term." Then they sign another player instead.

I'm sure Dubas made that statement to the press, just so the discussion kinda stops at least for the season. Of course by many of the comments by fans on thread truly believe that Nylander will be a Leafs for six years. When I look at the Leafs cap for next, I just don't believe they can afford to keep Nylander. And certainly front end loading of the contract makes him desirable in a trade for other teams.

Eh, I’d say the odds are pretty high he’s a Leaf for the next six years. Clearly Dubas wanted him long term, the coach wanted him long term, as did the player. And if the Leafs run into a cap crunch I think a guy like Nylander will be one of the last assets they think about moving (they’ll move the more expensive depth pieces first.

But with all that said obviously just because a GM says something doesn’t mean it’s a golden rule: most GMs in this league say things they don’t uphold.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Darn, I keep forgetting if I don't use some think I'm being serious.

Sorry mavis, I'm not trying to give your boy a hard time. I'm sure he'll be back to his 20 goal form in 15 or so games.

You should be more concerned about how much Marner will get paid in his 20 goal form.

 

[egd27]

You should be more concerned about how much Marner will get paid in his 20 goal form.

I worry less about a player that is actually top 5 in NHL scoring a 1/3 of the way into the season than I do about a player that has played 2 games at the the same point in time.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It’s weird that people have gotten so worked out about this.

You can probably dig up a quote from Lou the day Matt Martin was signed about how he sees him being an important part of the team for the next four years. Then 1.5 seasons later he was still a healthy scratch

Edit: typo

And I wish Dubas had said something like that instead of saying the he would never trade Nylander, there's a huge difference.

Eh, I’d say the odds are pretty high he’s a Leaf for the next six years. Clearly Dubas wanted him long term, the coach wanted him long term, as did the player. And if the Leafs run into a cap crunch I think a guy like Nylander will be one of the last assets they think about moving (they’ll move the more expensive depth pieces first.

But with all that said obviously just because a GM says something doesn’t mean it’s a golden rule: most GMs in this league say things they don’t uphold.

I agree that Nylander's not the guy you trade because you need to free up cap space but what if they decide that we really need a good Dman, then what? As the saying goes, you gotta give to get and if we have to trade a quality forward, we may be in a spot where anything less than Nylander doesn't get it done and we'd rather part with Nylander than with Matthews/Marnes/Tavares.

I feel funny saying this about our GM but I really hope his word means nothing in this case. I can't help but be a bit worried that he'd really like to keep his word in this case and if that's the case, that's potentially a big problem.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

I worry less about a player that is actually top 5 in NHL scoring a 1/3 of the way into the season than I do about a player that has played 2 games at the the same point in time.

You do not seem to have a coherent point, you’re all over the map with what you’re trying to say. Suffice to say all you’re really doing is complaining aimlessly about the whole Nylander situation. Cute.

 

[Trapper]

And I wish Dubas had said something like that instead of saying the he would never trade Nylander, there's a huge difference.



I agree that Nylander's not the guy you trade because you need to free up cap space but what if they decide that we really need a good Dman, then what? As the saying goes, you gotta give to get and if we have to trade a quality forward, we may be in a spot where anything less than Nylander doesn't get it done and we'd rather part with Nylander than with Matthews/Marnes/Tavares.

I feel funny saying this about our GM but I really hope his word means nothing in this case. I can't help but be a bit worried that he'd really like to keep his word in this case and if that's the case, that's potentially a big problem.

That’s really the key here with Nylander.
He’s not the guy you trade for:
A) cap relief
B) poor return

However if Columbus was to offer Jones, what do you say? No sorry, I promised Willy?
He’s important Kyle, we get it. End statement.

 

[egd27]

You do not seem to have a coherent point, you’re all over the map with what you’re trying to say. Suffice to say all you’re really doing is complaining aimlessly about the whole Nylander situation. Cute.

Perhaps you missed the point I was making?

You suggested I should be more concerned about how much Marner will get paid in his 20 goal form.

In my response, the player that is actually top 5 in NHL scoring a 1/3 of the way into the season is Marner. The player that has played 2 games at the the same point in time is Nylander.

Therefore, I am less concerned about Marner given his actual performance than I am about Nylander and his potential performance.

I trust that clears it up for you.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Perhaps you missed the point I was making?

You suggested I should be more concerned about how much Marner will get paid in his 20 goal form.

In my response, the player that is actually top 5 in NHL scoring a 1/3 of the way into the season is Marner. The player that has played 2 games at the the same point in time is Nylander.

Therefore, I am less concerned about Marner given his actual performance than I am about Nylander and his potential performance.

I trust that clears it up for you.

I’m talking about the big picture of our discussion across all posts. Not that one post. Also you completely missed the point of my 20g post about Marner. I’ve lowered my expectations, no worries.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

You guys are looking way too much at this.

It's simple. There was so many trade rumours and uneccessary distractions for Nylander. How can you expect Nylander or any player to return to the team and suceed if this continues to happen? The media would have kept on going and going about the rumours. Because Dubas has said this statement, media has quiet down about that and Willy can focus on his game rather than rumours.

 

[81Leafs50]

why are people still talking about Nylander?

dont waste your time. This organization is telling you what you want to know. No speculation needed.

Dubas: Our cap is ok
Dubas: We want Nylnder signed long term
Dubas: We will not trade Nylander

why still bother to argue whether Nylanders contract is movable? its irrelevant.

 

[81Leafs50]

i guess some people just love to see themselves type. lol

 

[egd27]

I’m talking about the big picture of our discussion across all posts. Not that one post. Also you completely missed the point of my 20g post about Marner. I’ve lowered my expectations, no worries.

The big picture of our discussion is that I am concerned Nylander will live up to his contract this season given all that has gone on over the past 3-4 months.

You seem to feel that this is an unreasonable concern, and started including Marner in the discussion for a reason only known to you. When I responded to the Marner point, I am apparently no longer making coherent points.

At the end of the day it appears you have no concerns about Nylander, and I hope you turn out to be correct. I on the other hand do have some concerns given all that has occurred, and I hope I turn out to be incorrect.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

The big picture of our discussion is that I am concerned Nylander will live up to his contract this season given all that has gone on over the past 3-4 months.

You seem to feel that this is an unreasonable concern, and started including Marner in the discussion for a reason only known to you. When I responded to the Marner point, I am apparently no longer making coherent points.

At the end of the day it appears you have no concerns about Nylander, and I hope you turn out to be correct. I on the other hand do have some concerns given all that has occurred, and I hope I turn out to be incorrect.

The only thing that has gone on in the last 3-4 months is contract negotiations. Therefore no hockey and no new evidence to believe he won’t play up to his contract, which is slightly lower than Pastrnak, which is where many feel his value is.

You brought up the “20 goal” thing which is a known hyperbole diss over the last 3-4 months, which is a quality of analysis of Nylanders play that is about on par with characterising Marner as a “20g scorer”.

All caught up?

 

[therealkoho]

Lots of posters saying willie is gone next year. I don't think that's what TML has planned. Dubas said

Dubas gets first piece of Leafs’ RFA puzzle in place, Matthews, Marner next
There has always been a trade Nylander crowd, but it seems that management identifies him as part of the core and rightfully so.
So why would you trade him?

i seriously wouldn't count your chickens before they hatched

it's unrealistic to think that if Nylander's contract was an impedment to getting a deal done with Matty and/or Mitch, Willie would be gone in a heartbeat

 

[ULF_55]

i seriously wouldn't count your chickens before they hatched

it's unrealistic to think that if Nylander's contract was an impedment to getting a deal done with Matty and/or Mitch, Willie would be gone in a heartbeat

Actually, there are several other players who could be moved. 1-2 million dollars won't be a problem between Nylander and other options available. Worst contract is Marleau's and he's gone after next year.

 

[therealkoho]

Actually, there are several other players who could be moved. 1-2 million dollars won't be a problem between Nylander and other options available. Worst contract is Marleau's and he's gone after next year.

too many complications to trade Marleaus contract starting with an NTC, although it is an alternative they could look at for sure

 

[egd27]

The only thing that has gone on in the last 3-4 months is contract negotiations. Therefore no hockey and no new evidence to believe he won’t play up to his contract, which is slightly lower than Pastrnak, which is where many feel his value is.

You brought up the “20 goal” thing which is a known hyperbole diss over the last 3-4 months, which is a quality of analysis of Nylanders play that is about on par with characterising Marner as a “20g scorer”.

All caught up?

Yea, I think so.....thanks for the help.

I look forward to Pastrnak-like production.

(btw.....I didn't bring up the "20 goal" thing, that was you in the Marner post )

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Yea, I think so.....thanks for the help.

I look forward to Pastrnak-like production.

(btw.....I didn't bring up the "20 goal" thing, that was you in the Marner post )

You said “I’m sure he’ll be back up to his 20 goal self after 15 games”. That’s kind of exemplifies what I said about you being all over the place, you can’t even keep track.

 

[egd27]

You said “I’m sure he’ll be back up to his 20 goal self after 15 games”. That’s kind of exemplifies what I said about you being all over the place, you can’t even keep track.

I stand corrected.....I did say that.

 

[therealkoho]

what LeafLand say's: "Kyle said he will never trade Willie"

what Kyle actually said:

“The discussion that William and I had had a couple of times was a fear of his … that he was being signed to be traded,” Dubas told Bob McCown and Stephen Brunt on Prime Time Sports. “And my discussion with him, I just affirmed with him that that was not our intention whatsoever.
“Our intention was that as long as I was here that I saw him as a part of the Toronto Maple Leafs"

Maybe just a bit less committed than what’s out there (Dubas chose his words carefully – teams make decisions every now and then that they certainly never had any “intentions” of doing), and Elliotte Friedman has mentioned that he believes this season will be Nylander’s last in Toronto.

Pressed further, Dubas made clear that he’s not looking to trade his young winger.

“I don’t think we want to get into the business at all of having these young, core pieces of ours, and then going forward and moving them from our team,” he said.

so nowhere does Kyle say he will never trade Willie, just that he really doesn't want to unless......

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

what LeafLand say's: "Kyle said he will never trade Willie"

what Kyle actually said:


so nowhere does Kyle say he will never trade Willie, just that he really doesn't want to unless......

I think many refer to Nylanders comments regarding the guarantee. Nylander indicates that Kyle guaranteed him so long as he is the GM he will not be traded. Not that I put too much stock into all this. Of course Nylander understands the realities at play in the business and we all know the context around such comments.

 

[Gary Nylund]

what LeafLand say's: "Kyle said he will never trade Willie"

what Kyle actually said:

so nowhere does Kyle say he will never trade Willie, just that he really doesn't want to unless......

Just because he didn't say it in this clip doesn't mean he never said it and he did say it. I heard him asked about it on the radio and he confirmed it.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Just because he didn't say it in this clip doesn't mean he never said it and he did say it. I heard him asked about it on the radio and he confirmed it.

Not all that much to worry about. The circumstances under which it makes sense to trade Nylander are likely also circumstances under which things are grim enough that Nylander probably doesn’t mind a change.

 

[member 157595]

Just because he didn't say it in this clip doesn't mean he never said it and he did say it. I heard him asked about it on the radio and he confirmed it.

I wonder if part of that is Dubas knowing that if he doesn't say that, the media will run with the "DUBAS WANTS TO TRADE NYLANDER! READ MY ARTICLE AND GET ME SOME FRESH HITS FOR MY HOT TAEKS!!!" bit.

I hope that's why he said that. If a hypothetical trade pops up that makes us better and Dubas declines it because of a non-binding verbal promise he's not doing his job.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Not all that much to worry about. The circumstances under which it makes sense to trade Nylander are likely also circumstances under which things are grim enough that Nylander probably doesn’t mind a change.

Whether Nylander minds or not doesn't (or shouldn't) enter into it.

I wonder if part of that is Dubas knowing that if he doesn't say that, the media will run with the "DUBAS WANTS TO TRADE NYLANDER! READ MY ARTICLE AND GET ME SOME FRESH HITS FOR MY HOT TAEKS!!!" bit.

I hope that's why he said that. If a hypothetical trade pops up that makes us better and Dubas declines it because of a non-binding verbal promise he's not doing his job.

That's probably why he said it, he shouldn't have said it though. He could have conveyed reassurances but stopped short of saying he would never trade him no matter what and especially not extended that guarantee beyond these 6 years to the end if time. That's what every other GM in NHL history has done, not sure why that wasn't good enough for Dubas in this case.

As far as the media goes, they were talking about nothing non-stop for months, that's no reason to go off the board and provide a guarantee the way he did, at least I can't recall another GM ever doing this. It just wasn't necessary, period.