Larry Brooks: NY Post 01/14/2013: Gaborik switches sides [to LW]

[nyr2k2]

Mistake Mistake Mistake.

It's like Kreider doesn't exist. And Hagelin is NOT a top 6 forward. I expect the coaches to know this.

He played like one last season. Extrapolated for 82 games, he'd have 18 goals and 30 assists. I don't know what he is or isn't--none of us do--but he played extremely well when given the chance, so why not see if he can continue?

I've been singing the praises of Carl since we drafted him, all along saying his upside was a second line wing. I still firmly believe that.

 

[Levitate]

If Gabby does not rack up a lot of goals before the deadline I think we seriously should consider moving him . He has been and always will be a fragile player . We could get in on the Getzlaf/Perry grab at the deadline and I would sooner have one of those guys playing the Pen/Bruins/Flyers in the playoffs than Gabby .

I know we lose a year because Getzlaf & Perry would need to be signed while Gabby already is for next season . Anaheim could possibly consider the deal because they would have a signed asset in Gabby for 2014 and then they could move him at the 2015 deadline for something .

I want a Cup...we missed out on an easy crack at it last year because we did not make the crucial moves . Sometimes you gotta give to get !!! Flame away .

Yeah he's not being moved at this deadline and it's a dumb suggestion

 

[Trxjw]

While at this point it's debatable whether or not Hagelin has "top six" skills, there's no denying that he's the kind of guy who can stir the drink on a scoring line. Very few guys are as fast as he is, and even fewer are as willing to work their ***** off in the dirty areas. Couple that with his passing ability and you have a guy who likely will continue to be a very effective complimentary player for a long time.

 

[jw2]

As long as Gaborik has no issues catching passes on his backhand, this should be fine. Also, it puts Gaborik on his forehand when he cuts towards the slot with the puck.

Exact opposite.

 

[Levitate]

As long as Gaborik has no issues catching passes on his backhand, this should be fine. Also, it puts Gaborik on his forehand when he cuts towards the slot with the puck.

He shoots left so no, he'd be on his backhand when he cuts to the slot from the left side

I'm not totally sold on the idea but Tortorella will switch things around again if it doesn't work out

 

[Crease]

Exact opposite.

He shoots left so no, he'd be on his backhand when he cuts to the slot from the left side

I'm not totally sold on the idea but Tortorella will switch things around again if it doesn't work out

Ah whoops. Why did I think Gaborik played on his natural side? Learn something new everyday I suppose.

 

[Florida Ranger]

I see it as Torts is trying to utilize the players anyway possible and adding different dimensions to the players' game. Excellent depth on RW with Nash/Gaborik and Callahan. Then you can switch Hagelin and Gaborik between the 1st and 2nd line depending on what's clicking and ways to create mismatches. He can switch Nash from RW to LW and put Gaborik back on RW and just have a nasty 1st line.

 

[Fitzy]

He played like one last season. Extrapolated for 82 games, he'd have 18 goals and 30 assists. I don't know what he is or isn't--none of us do--but he played extremely well when given the chance, so why not see if he can continue?

I've been singing the praises of Carl since we drafted him, all along saying his upside was a second line wing. I still firmly believe that.

You'd think Kreider had doubled Hagelins production from the responses here. Hagelin has produced more in every stage of his career from college through the AHL to now.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Im not a fan of breaking guys off of their natural positions either, especially when those guys are scoring wingers, have produced well on their side and have been there for a long time.

I think its forcing the issue a little bit, though I like the idea of separating Gaborik and Nash. I also like the fact that he wants Hags on the first line, I think it sets off the top two lines very well and Richards works well with Hags and thats part of the reason.

But if you keep Nash and Gabby on their own sides why not have Cally on the top line instead and do:

Nash - Richards - Cally
Hags - Stepan - Gaborik
?

There is a slight chance, a very slight chance that having Nash and Gabby play on their off wings could be a positive due to the linemates they have. You could catch that lightning in a bottle for a little bit and ride it.

It also may be Torts' way of getting Nash and Gaborik to be more well rounded in the system, but Im under the assumption (especially for unique, star players) that you put them on the ice and you just let them go. The last thing you want is to have them overthink out there because it could lead to a slump or even injury if you arent careful. When you finally change them back to their own wings it might take a while to get it back then.

Big risk if you ask me. Torts is forcing it. Hopefully they suck terribly today in camp and he switches them back.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Im not a fan of breaking guys off of their natural positions either, especially when those guys are scoring wingers, have produced well on their side and have been there for a long time.

I think its forcing the issue a little bit, though I like the idea of separating Gaborik and Nash. I also like the fact that he wants Hags on the first line, I think it sets off the top two lines very well and Richards works well with Hags and thats part of the reason.

But if you keep Nash and Gabby on their own sides why not have Cally on the top line instead and do:

Nash - Richards - Cally
Hags - Stepan - Gaborik
?

There is a slight chance, a very slight chance that having Nash and Gabby play on their off wings could be a positive due to the linemates they have. You could catch that lightning in a bottle for a little bit and ride it.

It also may be Torts' way of getting Nash and Gaborik to be more well rounded in the system, but Im under the assumption (especially for unique, star players) that you put them on the ice and you just let them go. The last thing you want is to have them overthink out there because it could lead to a slump or even injury if you arent careful. When you finally change them back to their own wings it might take a while to get it back then.

Big risk if you ask me. Torts is forcing it. Hopefully they suck terribly today in camp and he switches them back.

Hahaha. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Matt4776]

I really don't think it has to be this difficult (albeit the lines will change 400x this year).

Hagelin-Richards-Nash
Kreider-Stepan-Gaborik
Pyatt-Boyle-Callahan
Rupp-Halpren-Asham(Haley game 1)

Kreider has chemistry with Stepan, Stepan has chemistry with Gaborik, both Kreider and Gaborik are extremely fast, and Kreider's body can open up space for Gabby. Gives Kreider a playmaker to work with. Callahan can get his body preserved with his pedestrian scoring ES ability, puts him in a shutdown role (which is where he excels) and give him max PP+PK time. Win win win.

Boyle+Cally more than make up for Pyatt's defensive "shortcomings" on the third line. That is a big mean annoying third line to line up against.

 

[NYR Viper]

Playing Kreider in the top-6 over Callahan is asinine. The lines will change throughout the year. I'm sure Pyatt, Boyle and Kreider will all get top-6 time at some point. Hagelin was a difference-maker every time he was on the ice last year.

 

[Matt4776]

Playing Kreider in the top-6 over Callahan is asinine. The lines will change throughout the year. I'm sure Pyatt, Boyle and Kreider will all get top-6 time at some point. Hagelin was a difference-maker every time he was on the ice last year.

Kreider won't be getting more ice-time than Callahan. More ES time? I see nothing wrong with that.

As we've seen down in HFD, for better or worse, Kreider is largely ineffective when not working with skilled line-mates. Putting him with Boyle and Pyatt would lead to a huge struggle all season long. Despite his body, he is NOT a grind-it-out type of player. He just isn't.

A line of Kreider-Boyle-Pyatt frightens me. They don't play defense well enough for a third line, and they can't score enough consistently to make up for that. If that is our third line for opening night, I will be scared whenever they step on the ice.

EDIT:

Did Kreider earn 2nd line minutes over Cally? Absolutely not. Cally is absolutely the better player at this stage of their careers. It's about roles to me. I also don't want Cally (especially with his playing style) to be playing much more than 20 minutes per game.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

I am sure Torts knows Kreider exists... Kid is doomed for failure with all the ridiculous expectations piled on him.

As far as the OP, it will be interesting to see. Definitely like our top six.

 

[Synergy27]

Gaborik isn't much of a one-time shooter to begin with, but perhaps his injury has diminished this ability even more? If you're not setting up the one-timer regularly there isn't much of an advantage in playing the off side. This shouldn't be a difficult transition for Gabby even if it ends up being a long term thing.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

Kreider won't be getting more ice-time than Callahan. More ES time? I see nothing wrong with that.

As we've seen down in HFD, for better or worse, Kreider is largely ineffective when not working with skilled line-mates. Putting him with Boyle and Pyatt would lead to a huge struggle all season long. Despite his body, he is NOT a grind-it-out type of player. He just isn't.

A line of Kreider-Boyle-Pyatt frightens me. They don't play defense well enough for a third line, and they can't score enough consistently to make up for that. If that is our third line for opening night, I will be scared whenever they step on the ice.

EDIT:

Did Kreider earn 2nd line minutes over Cally? Absolutely not. Cally is absolutely the better player at this stage of their careers. It's about roles to me. I also don't want Cally (especially with his playing style) to be playing much more than 20 minutes per game.

Please. Boyle and Pyatt are both solid defensively so if you're concerned about anyone it must be Kreider? I hate the he can't produce without talented linemates bit. So he leeches off of other players abilities? What good is he then if he can't do anything for himself? I know it's not what you mean but it's how it comes across. Let's let them play a game or two before we determine wether or not the lines work.

 

[RGY]

I think the move has more to do with Nash and Richards than it does Gaborik. Torts wants Nash with Richards. Richards is left handed as is Nash, and entering a zone a lot of times as Richards draws players to him he could dish the puck off to Nash on the RW for a one timer. And on the second line Stepan and Callahan are right handed. It is easier for Stepan to spring Gaborik with a forehand pass, while imo Callahan being on the backhand side will be driving to the net more rather than receiving a pass for a one timer or being sprung past the two defenders.

That's just my guess.

 

[NYR Viper]

Kreider won't be getting more ice-time than Callahan. More ES time? I see nothing wrong with that.

As we've seen down in HFD, for better or worse, Kreider is largely ineffective when not working with skilled line-mates. Putting him with Boyle and Pyatt would lead to a huge struggle all season long. Despite his body, he is NOT a grind-it-out type of player. He just isn't.

A line of Kreider-Boyle-Pyatt frightens me. They don't play defense well enough for a third line, and they can't score enough consistently to make up for that. If that is our third line for opening night, I will be scared whenever they step on the ice.

EDIT:

Did Kreider earn 2nd line minutes over Cally? Absolutely not. Cally is absolutely the better player at this stage of their careers. It's about roles to me. I also don't want Cally (especially with his playing style) to be playing much more than 20 minutes per game.

Until Kreider can show he can be a difference maker on a routine basis he doesn't deserve a 2nd line spot. Players aren't given more ice time because coaches feel they may do well. They need to prove it. Kreider getting 10-15 minutes a night is a good start for a young player learning the NHL game.

 

[Matt4776]

Please. Boyle and Pyatt are both solid defensively so if you're concerned about anyone it must be Kreider? I hate the he can't produce without talented linemates bit. So he leeches off of other players abilities? What good is he then if he can't do anything for himself? I know it's not what you mean but it's how it comes across. Let's let them play a game or two before we determine wether or not the lines work.

I think the fact that Pyatt is solid defensively is a pretty big fallacy on this board. The fact that he scores a few amount of points does not automatically mean he is solid defensively. I watch a lot of PHX games, and I think most PHX fans would agree with me in saying he is not a defensive player. He is no Fedotenko/Dubinsky/Korpikoski. He's an average-at-best defensive player who just doesn't score many points. There's nothing wrong with that- I like Pyatt- just don't make him something he's not.

And yes- I am concerned about a 21-year-old fresh out of college who has struggled with defensive responsibilities playing on the shutdown line on a primarily defensive team.

And Kreider is far from a leech. He can make Stepan better just as Stepan can make him better. Because they have complimentary playing styles. Brian Boyle and Chris Kreider do NOT have complimentary playing styles. Again, it's not so much about skill, it's about roles and playing styles.

EDIT:

At Boyler, I agree to an extent. I don't like giving minutes based off potential. At the same time, giving Kreider defensive-zone starts (look at Boyle's defensive-zone start percentages and who he faces- some of the toughest minutes in the league) and putting him against the other team's best players while limiting his ice time is NOT a recipe for success. I'd much rather see Callahan (who I'd say is among our best overall forwards) deal with the difficult assignments than Kreider.

 

[RGY]

I think the fact that Pyatt is solid defensively is a pretty big fallacy on this board. Just because he doesn't score a large amount of points means he is solid defensively. I watch a lot of PHX games, and I think most PHX fans would agree with me in saying he is not a defensive player. He is no Fedotenko/Dubinsky/Korpikoski. He's an average-at-best defensive player who just doesn't score many points. There's nothing wrong with that- I like Pyatt- just don't make him something he's not.

And yes- I am concerned about a 21-year-old fresh out of college who has struggled with defensive responsibilities playing on the shutdown line on a primarily defensive team.

And Kreider is far from a leech. He can make Stepan better just as Stepan can make him better. Because they have complimentary playing styles. Brian Boyle and Chris Kreider do NOT have complimentary playing styles. Again, it's not so much about skill, it's about roles and playing styles.

This is a good post. This is what me and MPF24 were talking about a couple of days ago.

I hate hearing that Kreider has to "earn" a 2nd line role. If that's the case why was he put in the top 6 in the playoffs? He hadn't played an NHL game prior to that. What did he do to earn it then?

And I hate the bs that Kreider is a "leech" if he "needs" talented players to play with. No that is horribly inaccurate and false. Just because Kreider can't do everything himself to score a goal doesn't mean he is a leech. Players play a certain way and they have certain roles. Kreider is not a playmaker, he is not even a great all around player. But he sure as hell has great speed and a helluva snap shot. He needs players that match his game. Playmaking players that can retrieve a puck and make solid passes to him. Players that draw attention away from Kreider so that when he receives a pass he has time and space just like he did when he scored on that breakout pass from stepan against washington and the pass from anisimov against the devils. What is so hard to understand about this concept?

I'm sorry, but they are not playing to their strengths with Kreider playing with guys like Boyle and Pyatt. It is nothing against those two guys but they are not playmaking forwards. They are dump and chase, grind it out players. Crash the net. Cycle in the corner and battle. Kreider does not play that type of game.

I'm not even going to suggest who to switch him with out of the top 6 because some people here will have a sh** fit if certain players are moved to the 3rd line because apparently depending on tenure and experience they are entitled to the top 6 even though they may benefit the team most by playing on the 3rd line and having Kreider move into the top 6.

Here's the washington clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfFZOQWkawY

 

[Leetch3]

something that shouldn't be lost here...gaborik could easily play the superstar card here and be a primadonna and complain that its unfair to expect him to make this move coming off injury with a shortened camp, blah blah blah

but instead torts says jump and gabby says 'how high?'

makes me want to find a way to keep him around long term...

 

[qwertyaas]

Torts probably watched the Gaborik breakaway goal against the Kings from his first season (iirc) that was from the left side.

 

[Zynbanejad]

This will be interesting.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Playing Kreider in the top-6 over Callahan is asinine. The lines will change throughout the year. I'm sure Pyatt, Boyle and Kreider will all get top-6 time at some point. Hagelin was a difference-maker every time he was on the ice last year.

It's not that Kreider is a better player than Cally. He's just more suited than Kreider to play on the 3rd line.

 

[Fitzy]

I see nothing wrong with Kreider on the 3rd line. This isn't pre 2005 lockout where 3rd lines were all checking players. You put Chris with Boyle and Pyatt, you give that line a breakaway threat.