Speculation: NSH interested in Marner

[McSuper]

Goalies always look good til they go to teams with poor defensive play like the Oilers or Leafs. No goalie from a good defensive team is gonna have amazing stats and not get pulled apart by the press in Toronto. Trading marner where the biggest value of the return is a goalie will not turn out for a Toronto.

I guess you haven't look at the Oilers stats since the Knob took over. I believe it was 5 best in the NHL. Now I wouldn't call them a great defensive team but they aren't poor.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Man ppl really don't do their hockey homework! Trotz had Kuznetsov with the Caps! Kuzy had one phenomenal playoff year and was far less in his other playoff years.

He inherited Kuz and was not the GM making roster decisions. Why is it so hard for you Toronto fans to understand this?

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

It would be sweet if the leafs could find some way to get Roman Josi.

 

[Soundgarden]

It would be sweet if the leafs could find some way to get Roman Josi.

Why is Nashville trading away a homegrown future hall of famer in the middle of his prime?

 

[OVO16]

I'd rather trade Marner for a defenseman of his similar to his status or mutliple depth pieces.

I truly do feel confident in Woll being a #1 netminder.

 

[I am Canadian]

It would be sweet if the leafs could find some way to get Roman Josi.

Nooo chance.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Why is Nashville trading away a homegrown future hall of famer in the middle of his prime?

I doubt he'd waive anyway.

 

[BM14]

I'd rather trade Marner for a defenseman of his similar to his status or mutliple depth pieces.

I truly do feel confident in Woll being a #1 netminder.

#1 on the IR

 

[josra33]

They haven't. Toronto last went to a Cup final in 1967. Long before Nashville had a team. Moreover, Toronto and Nashville have never played a playoff series as that can only happen in the finial under the current playoff structure.

I didnt mean against the Predators, I meant as opposed to.

 

[DougGilmour93]

Blockbuster

Marner (extended)
Robertson
Liljegren

For

Novak
Tomasino
L’Heureux
Fabbro/Schenn
Saros (extended)

 

[Soundgarden]

Blockbuster

Marner (extended)
Robertson
Liljegren

For

Novak
Tomasino
L’Heureux
Fabbro/Schenn
Saros (extended)

Maybe if you take out L'Heureux.

 

[Vivaldi]

This... it's not a knock on Saros, but Toronto will immediately regret the Saros extension when they get knocked off in the playoffs by a team paying a goalie under $4m, who goes toe to to toe with Sarso.

Workhorse goaltenders (specifically those paid as workhorse goaltenders) are good for teams who need to get to the playoffs. They are bad for teams trying to win the cup.



Saros could be Vasilevsky or Shesterkin or Hellebuyck, it wouldn't really matter. The reality is, next year is a reset year for the Leafs, they're not winnign the cup. After that, Saros will be either gone, or a burden to trying to win.

I get why Nashville is interested in Marner, but Toronto has fairly specific needs and the Marner deal has to address at least one of those needs.



Could not agree less.

Saros is not a good target for Toronto due to his contract situation, his resume, and the fact that they're likely pretenders next year. They need a goalie, but they shoudl not under any circumstances pursue one looking to be paid as a workhorse #1. It's just not the way you win these days.

Toronto has fairly specific needs outside of goaltending.

On D, they need a high quality, right shot defenceman with size, physicality, and solid defensive play. That's not Dante Fabbro... so Nashville cannot really address that need.

Up front, they need:

- A #2 centre to address the decline of Tavares. Tommy Novak might be a reasonable fit for that. Based on teh body of work from Phillip Tomasino so far, it does not appear that he would be that.

- An offensively inclined winger to offset the loss of Mitch Marner. I'd imagine the Leafs are looking longer term than Gus Nyquist, which basically leaves a guy like Luke Evangelista.

- Some size and functional toughness up front. Colton Sissons would semingly fit reasonably well here.

Overall, the challenge is, you look at the guys that might actually fill a need for the Leafs... and none of them fill it spectacularily well.

If they're expecting to perfectly plug all of their holes by trading 11 million dollar NTC playmaking right winger playoff scapegoat Mitch Marner, I think they'll come away disappointed. The market for him is relatively constrained and while I don't see them getting as lowballed as with Kessel they will still likely have to settle somewhat. They'll have to parlay some of the cap space/assets they get into filling those in separate transactions. I could see Evangelista instead of Tomasino though.

As far as not winning with workhorse #1 goalies, the 3 teams in the ECF as of now each very much have a workhorse #1 goalie. If you think winning with Adin Hill or Darcy Kuemper is the right strategy, keep in mind that you would have to be as insanely loaded at F and D as they were. You'd basically have to add the equivalent of Devon Toews and Alex Pietrangelo this offseason on defense and substantially upgrade your Domis and Jarnkroks to Kadri, Nichushkin levels to be the type of team that wins with plug and play goalies.

Blockbuster

Marner (extended)
Robertson
Liljegren

For

Novak
Tomasino
L’Heureux
Fabbro/Schenn
Saros (extended)

you probably get a lot more mileage out if you let Nashville keep L'Heureux, especially given that he's not part of a win now package

 

[Byrddog]

These teams make good trading partners. There are pieces that could improve each team. There is I little doubt the Keafs want to move Marner but not sure he fits into a Trotz team. I’m not convinced that the Leafs are looking for a starting goalie at the price point Saros will be. Woll when healthy is every bit as good as Saros. So I just can’t see these guys as part of a Leaf Pred trade. The Leafs will be more interested in the cost controlled middle 6 players the Preds have and defense. You have to feel Trotz is still looking to bolster the top 6 be it internal or by trade. Honestly I was suprise how well the Preds performed in the regular season with the roster. IMO Trotz is making the right decisions even though the team was not very competitive in the playoffs most of us thought they could have missed the playoffs at the first of the year. Saros did not have a very good year and long term I can’t see his fitting in when the team is ready to make a real run. But does that mean the Leafs should take a chance with him I don’t know the will . Look at the last few mistakes they have brought in Sami who choked heavy, Campbell that made no sense. Keef’s system just hung the goalie out far too often and the core thought only of offense far too much that’s why Marner has been shit on for two years at least. The positive thing about the Leafs is that they are willing to make changes unlike some other teams Lightning”.

I expect the Leafs move Marner somewhere not named Nashville and do not get what fans are expecting. Saros well not sure what Trotz is thinking will he overpay him to bridge the gap for when Askarov is ready. Not unlike the situation where Saros road the bench behind Pekka. Right now is the time to trade Saros though as was pointed out he had not won a playoff series reguardless of be Veznia nominated. He will be on the way out when the Preds are ready for a run. That could change if Trotz finds the players this off season for Josi, Max and Saros to make a run but that’s going to make a 180 on what he did last summer piling up picks and putting young guys in play. We know Trotz and his willingness to stick to a plan.

 

[GeauxPreds1]

Maybe if you take out L'Heureux.

What about
Saros(extended)
Tomasino
Schenn
Novak
24 1st
For
Marner (extended)
Robertson
Liljegren
Typing that out not sure I’d do it. Just want to what you think

 

[Soundgarden]

What about
Saros(extended)
Tomasino
Schenn
Novak
24 1st
For
Marner (extended)
Robertson
Liljegren
Typing that out not sure I’d do it. Just want to what you think

I'd think about it, there's a lot of assets involved.

 

[Vivaldi]

Objectively... let'say the Leafs trade Marner for non-roster assets -- picks & prospects...

Who are they realistically going to sign with all that cap space. The UFA market for #2 Cs, top 6 wingers, and right shot defencemen isn't exactly spectacular.

While I am firmly against any substantial value being placed on Saros, the Leafs do need to find a way to get at least 1 top half of the lineup player back in the deal.

Hypothetically, assuming Marner gets Saros, Fabbro, Evangelista as return. You could go

Chandler Stephenson - 7x6sh, or 8x5.75 with sign and trade if Vegas wants like a 3rd. He's the perfect 2nd line C who can tilt the ice at even strength and be defensively responsible and plays with speed. 2x cup champion as well.
Zadorov - 7x5

Domi - 4x4
Duclair 3x3. Or see if you can do the type of signing Ottawa did with Tarasenko with Kane/etc

Domi Matthews Duclair/Kane/etc
Knies Stephenson Nylander
Robertson Tavares Evangelista
McMann Minten Jarnkrok
Dewar Cowan

Rielly Tanev/Matt Roy/DeMelo
Zadorov Fabbro
McCabe Liljegren
Benoit Timmins

Saros
Woll

That gives you a very deep lineup at F/D/G with a lot of opportunity for improvement once Tavares is up. The defense isn't all star but solid and complimentary top to bottom and Saros/Woll will let them play with their balls unclenched. You have the functional depth to roll other teams the way Boston rolled you even with injuries. You're missing a good point shot but can probably sign DeAngelo for league min and alternate him with Liljegren and see if he sticks. And if someone like Rasmus Andersson becomes available you have the picks/prospects to trade for him

Not sure if the cap works but imo it is close enough that you can find ways to make it work

 

[GeauxPreds1]

These teams make good trading partners. There are pieces that could improve each team. There is I little doubt the Keafs want to move Marner but not sure he fits into a Trotz team. I’m not convinced that the Leafs are looking for a starting goalie at the price point Saros will be. Woll when healthy is every bit as good as Saros. So I just can’t see these guys as part of a Leaf Pred trade. The Leafs will be more interested in the cost controlled middle 6 players the Preds have and defense. You have to feel Trotz is still looking to bolster the top 6 be it internal or by trade. Honestly I was suprise how well the Preds performed in the regular season with the roster. IMO Trotz is making the right decisions even though the team was not very competitive in the playoffs most of us thought they could have missed the playoffs at the first of the year. Saros did not have a very good year and long term I can’t see his fitting in when the team is ready to make a real run. But does that mean the Leafs should take a chance with him I don’t know the will . Look at the last few mistakes they have brought in Sami who choked heavy, Campbell that made no sense. Keef’s system just hung the goalie out far too often and the core thought only of offense far too much that’s why Marner has been shit on for two years at least. The positive thing about the Leafs is that they are willing to make changes unlike some other teams Lightning”.

I expect the Leafs move Marner somewhere not named Nashville and do not get what fans are expecting. Saros well not sure what Trotz is thinking will he overpay him to bridge the gap for when Askarov is ready. Not unlike the situation where Saros road the bench behind Pekka. Right now is the time to trade Saros though as was pointed out he had not won a playoff series reguardless of be Veznia nominated. He will be on the way out when the Preds are ready for a run. That could change if Trotz finds the players this off season for Josi, Max and Saros to make a run but that’s going to make a 180 on what he did last summer piling up picks and putting young guys in play. We know Trotz and his willingness to stick to a plan.

not sure how marner isn’t a trotz player. I think he’s exactly the type of player trotz would go for. An offensive guy who has a strong 2 way game. As far as saros not having a good year he said that the thought being traded messed with his head a lot and as you seen after trotz said he wasn’t gonna be traded he was lights out going 18-3-3 to finish the season. To say woll and saros is close to the same is so disrespectful for what saros has already accomplished. Woll has only played 34 games in his young career while saros has been a vezina finalist multiple years already.

 

[GeauxPreds1]

Hypothetically, assuming Marner gets Saros, Fabbro, Evangelista as return. You could go

Chandler Stephenson - 7x6sh, or 8x5.75 with sign and trade if Vegas wants like a 3rd. He's the perfect 2nd line C who can tilt the ice at even strength and be defensively responsible and plays with speed. 2x cup champion as well.
Zadorov - 7x5

Domi - 4x4
Duclair 3x3. Or see if you can do the type of signing Ottawa did with Tarasenko with Kane/etc

Domi Matthews Duclair/Kane/etc
Knies Stephenson Nylander
Robertson Tavares Evangelista
McMann Minten Jarnkrok
Dewar Cowan

Rielly Tanev/Matt Roy/DeMelo
Zadorov Fabbro
McCabe Liljegren
Benoit Timmins

Saros
Woll

That gives you a very deep lineup at F/D/G with a lot of opportunity for improvement once Tavares is up. The defense isn't all star but solid and complimentary top to bottom and Saros/Woll will let them play with their balls unclenched. You have the functional depth to roll other teams the way Boston rolled you even with injuries. You're missing a good point shot but can probably sign DeAngelo for league min and alternate him with Liljegren and see if he sticks. And if someone like Rasmus Andersson becomes available you have the picks/prospects to trade for him

Not sure if the cap works but imo it is close enough that you can find ways to make it work

Hypothetically doesn’t work because Nashville isn’t trading Evangelista. Rather go another route if they ask for him. I get marner is worth that but his cap hit would make me say no

 

[hamzarocks]

Hypothetically doesn’t work because Nashville isn’t trading Evangelista. Rather go another route if they ask for him. I get marner is worth that but his cap hit would make me say no

Saros + Tomasino + 1 of Wood/Molendyk/Kemell/Svechkov/2024 1st rounder/L'Heureux

No extensions for either Saaros or Marner (preds can speak to marner before trade and try to extend him)

The third asset the preds can choose whichever one they would be open to dealing

That is the type of value/offer I would want and see as fair for marner if we deal him and there is a market of bidders he will waive his NMC too

 

[Byrddog]

not sure how marner isn’t a trotz player. I think he’s exactly the type of player trotz would go for. An offensive guy who has a strong 2 way game. As far as saros not having a good year he said that the thought being traded messed with his head a lot and as you seen after trotz said he wasn’t gonna be traded he was lights out going 18-3-3 to finish the season. To say woll and saros is close to the same is so disrespectful for what saros has already accomplished. Woll has only played 34 games in his young career while saros has been a vezina finalist multiple years already.

As was pointed out Saros has not won a playoff series. And as to Marner being a two way player I do not agree, as do many of the Leaf fans. There is no doubt Trotz likes that two way guy. Marner is far more offensive but he likes feed others than score on his own. Earlier in this thread a Pred fan compared him to Johansen and that is probably pretty accurate. His numbers have been better than RJ’s ever were, there is argument that he has played with more talent than RJ ever has . As a fan I like Marner and would like to see him here. But realistically taking that cap hit that is coming with him is questionable. I have never been a Saros fan really and think he has been over rated since taking the net from Rinne . Until the end Rinne was a stable goalie that rarely got blown out. Saros has been streaky have a dozen amazing games followed by some real stinkers. Saros value was at its highest prior to the start of this season. Now needing a new contract . This should create caution from teams looking at him especially the Leafs who have been burned by goalies they have signed over the last few years. The Leafs having defensive issues as well because of the cost of the core. That’s the main reason for moving Mitch in the first place. If Nashville had a guy that had 100 points it would be very unpopular to even suggest trading them. To disagree with that is just a untruth. There have been 40 to 50 point players that people overvalued so much they made it sound they were irreplaceable Craig Smith and Colin Wilson come to mind even Jarnkrok. Because these guys played in the top 6 here did not mean they needed to be upgraded on. The looming problem now is the aging defense you remove Josi and Mac this team collapses you might as well have Chris Mason in net then. I’m sure Trotz has a plan I am equally sure he was more than pleased at the way this year turned out. But I am equally as sure that in 4 years this will be a totally different team. I would like to see this rebuild completed but unless it’s next year guess I’m not going to see it. I still think that the Leafs and Preds could make some moves to improve each other but don’t feel Marner or Saros are part of it.

 

[613Leafer]

It's The 4th Period ... even if you believe Pagnotta has sources.. it's their job to create rumors.

Nashville has not shown interest in Marner... Teams and GM's just bounced from playoffs are still in the evaluating phase.

There is a reason you don't hear real insiders coming out with these type of rumors at this time of year because these discussions are not taking place yet.

The 4th Period has to have rumors going at all times in order to make money.

I think on paper it makes a lot of sense. For as great as Nashville has been run, they've never had a Marner type of offensive talent in his prime (except maybe Kariya for 2 years almost 20 years ago), and with Marner they could have him for ~5 years of his prime. Preds also have capspace, incentive to try to win now while Josi/Forsberg are still good, and it's a destination players are typically willing to waive for.

In saying that, I agree, Pagnotta is not at all a reliable source. Also, ROR/Schenn may (or may not) have opinions on whether Marner should be a guy to target in a big trade like this.

Either way though, on paper I think it makes sense, especially as this is a "buy low" opportunity for a guy that has been quite consistent in the regular season (ie some of the "buy low" stuff may be quite overblown, as it's not like he's coming off major injuries or a 50 point season). I also think in a different market without the media pressure (and also with a different coach and teammates) he could very well excel in the playoffs.

 

[Armourboy]

Saros + Tomasino + 1 of Wood/Molendyk/Kemell/Svechkov/2024 1st rounder/L'Heureux

No extensions for either Saaros or Marner (preds can speak to marner before trade and try to extend him)

The third asset the preds can choose whichever one they would be open to dealing

That is the type of value/offer I would want and see as fair for marner if we deal him and there is a market of bidders he will waive his NMC too

Molendyk and L'Heureux I don't see being available. Like I said earlier in the thread, the only reason Molendyk wasn't on the roster last season was Trotz told Brunette no. L'Heureux is playing the style that Brunette wants to play.

Trotz is game for trading guys, even the young talent in Milwaukee, even picks, but I don't see him interested in moving guys they think will fit what they are trying to do. It's the same reason you wouldn't see him trading Evangelista I don't think.

That said its hard to know for sure what he is going to do. Like most GM's he talks out of both sides of his mouth, and just like with Poile you don't hear much unless he wants you to hear it. If Poile was in charge I could tell you exactly what he would do, Trotz is still a bit of a wild card.

 

[hamzarocks]

Molendyk and L'Heureux I don't see being available. Like I said earlier in the thread, the only reason Molendyk wasn't on the roster last season was Trotz told Brunette no. L'Heureux is playing the style that Brunette wants to play.

Trotz is game for trading guys, even the young talent in Milwaukee, even picks, but I don't see him interested in moving guys they think will fit what they are trying to do. It's the same reason you wouldn't see him trading Evangelista I don't think.

That said its hard to know for sure what he is going to do. Like most GM's he talks out of both sides of his mouth, and just like with Poile you don't hear much unless he wants you to hear it. If Poile was in charge I could tell you exactly what he would do, Trotz is still a bit of a wild card.

Trade doesnt have to be molendyk/L'heureux,

Any of the other assets are fine for me for a fair value offer assuming no crazy bidding war/drive in demand for marner

Saros + Tomasino + 2024 1st/Wood/Kemell/Svechkov would be a fair base if Trotz wants to add Marner type player this summer

 

[seanlinden]

Hypothetically, assuming Marner gets Saros, Fabbro, Evangelista as return. You could go

Chandler Stephenson - 7x6sh, or 8x5.75 with sign and trade if Vegas wants like a 3rd. He's the perfect 2nd line C who can tilt the ice at even strength and be defensively responsible and plays with speed. 2x cup champion as well.
Zadorov - 7x5

Domi - 4x4
Duclair 3x3. Or see if you can do the type of signing Ottawa did with Tarasenko with Kane/etc

Domi Matthews Duclair/Kane/etc
Knies Stephenson Nylander
Robertson Tavares Evangelista
McMann Minten Jarnkrok
Dewar Cowan

Rielly Tanev/Matt Roy/DeMelo
Zadorov Fabbro
McCabe Liljegren
Benoit Timmins

Saros
Woll

That gives you a very deep lineup at F/D/G with a lot of opportunity for improvement once Tavares is up. The defense isn't all star but solid and complimentary top to bottom and Saros/Woll will let them play with their balls unclenched. You have the functional depth to roll other teams the way Boston rolled you even with injuries. You're missing a good point shot but can probably sign DeAngelo for league min and alternate him with Liljegren and see if he sticks. And if someone like Rasmus Andersson becomes available you have the picks/prospects to trade for him

Not sure if the cap works but imo it is close enough that you can find ways to make it work

That would be an absolutely terrible return for Marner.... a goalie who they should let walk as a UFA, a defenceman who doesn't fill a need (and is also a UFA), and Evangelista, who is very much a project.

Those are also some pretty atrocious deals to the UFAs...

 

[seanlinden]

If they're expecting to perfectly plug all of their holes by trading 11 million dollar NTC playmaking right winger playoff scapegoat Mitch Marner, I think they'll come away disappointed. The market for him is relatively constrained and while I don't see them getting as lowballed as with Kessel they will still likely have to settle somewhat. They'll have to parlay some of the cap space/assets they get into filling those in separate transactions. I could see Evangelista instead of Tomasino though.

As far as not winning with workhorse #1 goalies, the 3 teams in the ECF as of now each very much have a workhorse #1 goalie. If you think winning with Adin Hill or Darcy Kuemper is the right strategy, keep in mind that you would have to be as insanely loaded at F and D as they were. You'd basically have to add the equivalent of Devon Toews and Alex Pietrangelo this offseason on defense and substantially upgrade your Domis and Jarnkroks to Kadri, Nichushkin levels to be the type of team that wins with plug and play goalies.



you probably get a lot more mileage out if you let Nashville keep L'Heureux, especially given that he's not part of a win now package

No, they need to plug at least one hole.
In a perfect world, they plug 2.
But there's no plugging all 4.

Shesterkin makes $5.6m
Bob Makes $10m
Oettinger makes $4m
The goalies that have carried Edmonton & Vancouver to where they are make $2.6m and $800k respectively.

Saros is not going to be available for anywhere near the $5m range in any year that the Leafs are contenders.... so there really shouldn't be any interest in placing much value on him.