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Value of: Now how Much Would You Pay Marner

koyvoo said:
It’s amazing how much more often Marner gets shit on for his playoff shortcomings (not that it isn’t fair criticism) than his other high profile teammates who who shot the bed when games matter just as much as he does.
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You haven't watched the Leafs playoffs either.

Marnee literally is 40' away from the net in the offensive zone. Media has posted data showing Marner is proportionally much further from the net then in the season relative any of the other Leaf core.

He also is taking the least amount of slot shots compared to ANY leaf player.yes even 4th liners.

How can Marners line produce if Marner isn't competing? If he's on the perimeter or standing at the blueline? They cant...its essentially 4v5. If they do score Matthews does everything, short of making a play with Marners stick.

Mcdavid alluded to Marners perimeter play at 4Nations. Mcdavid was asked to talk about his linemates Reinhart and Marner and he said this about Marner "Marner, the playmaker, umm kinda plays high in the zone" yes, that's the best compliment (is it a compliment) he could come up with for Marner.

Marner and him were caught in a heated discussion at the bench in game 1. Marner was interviewed and said "we are still working out where eachother is on the ice". Note that Marner was suddenly playing a little closer to the net then he ever does in Toronto. Probably because Mcdavid was yelling at him.

Hmm and Coopers faith in him wavered too... first line game 1, dropped to 2nd line game 2, least amount of 5v5 minutes by game 3, and game 4 he was given an opportunity when he ("looked like he had legs"). Cooper also gave him a backhanded compliment and said "he doesnt have any one skill that he does better than anyone on the ice, but can you say anyone played better?" Or something to that effect. That was game 1 though and by game 3 he was the least played forward 5v5.

Last years playoffs Hrudey and Biz on different networks did separate intermissions focused on Marners "pathetic" battle/effort to fight for pucks. Both said he was pathetic.

This all isn't a coincidence lol.

Marner is terrified of the dirty areas of the ice.

Good player but huge warts and I definitely would quickly walk away, with a very big grin, before paying him an elite contract.

One of the slowest player on the ice (around 60% percentile), among weakest shot and around 300th in the league in xg/60. It will be bad if he isnt with one of the top 5 players in the league leaders he is in Toronto. Not to mention a PP that includes Tavares, Nylander, Matthews (3 of the leavues best natural goal scorers).
 
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Antropovsky said:
You haven't watched the Leafs playoffs either.

Marnee literally is 40' away from the net in the offensive zone. Media has posted data showing Marner is proportionally much further from the net then in the season relative any of the other Leaf core.

He also is taking the least amount of slot shots compared to ANY leaf player.yes even 4th liners.

How can Marners line produce if Marner isn't competing? If he's on the perimeter or standing at the blueline? They cant...its essentially 4v5. If they do score Matthews does everything, short of making a play with Marners stick.

Mcdavid alluded to Marners perimeter play at 4Nations. Mcdavid was asked to talk about his linemates Reinhart and Marner and he said this about Marner "Marner, the playmaker, umm kinda plays high in the zone" yes, that's the best compliment (is it a compliment) he could come up with for Marner.

Marner and him were caught in a heated discussion at the bench in game 1. Marner was interviewed and said "we are still working out where eachother is on the ice". Note that Marner was suddenly playing a little closer to the net then he ever does in Toronto. Probably because Mcdavid was yelling at him.

Hmm and Coopers faith in him wavered too... first line game 1, dropped to 2nd line game 2, least amount of 5v5 minutes by game 3, and game 4 he was given an opportunity when he ("looked like he had legs"). Cooper also gave him a backhanded compliment and said "he doesnt have any one skill that he does better than anyone on the ice, but can you say anyone played better?" Or something to that effect. That was game 1 though and by game 3 he was the least played forward 5v5.

Last years playoffs Hrudey and Biz on different networks did separate intermissions focused on Marners "pathetic" battle/effort to fight for pucks. Both said he was pathetic.

This all isn't a coincidence lol.

Marner is terrified of the dirty areas of the ice.

Good player but huge warts and I definitely would quickly walk away, with a very big grin, before paying him an elite contract.

One of the slowest player on the ice (around 60% percentile), among weakest shot and around 300th in the league in xg/60. It will be bad if he isnt with one of the top 5 players in the league leaders he is in Toronto. Not to mention a PP that includes Tavares, Nylander, Matthews (3 of the leavues best natural goal scorers).
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Bolded ain’t true. I’ve watched every single leaf playoff have since the mid 80s. Every single one.

As for the rest, I’m not disputing any of it. My point is that he isn’t the only one who has a long track record of playing below his standards and abilities when it matters, but the others guys don’t get nearly the same amount of shit for it.
 
Leaf fan here, marner is one of my favourite players. 12 to 13, anymore and let him go. We are sick of players and anti leaf salary pushers trying to bend our organizations limits. We can build around Knies and willy.
 
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I think it would be surprising if he does not sign with TOR. This 8th contract year is very valuable. He will be 28 when his contract starts. I think he won t expect a big contract at 35, so he d rather live on the contract he will sign now.
 
He has priced himself out of Toronto with his salary demands in combination with his play style.

If we didn’t have Nylander+Knies I would say we need to consider overpaying to ensure we have premier wingers. But Marner brings an element that should be considered a luxury for a contending team, certainly a player a cap team cannot hemorrhage resources on.

Marner’s dollars would be better suited bringing in another top 4 dman and some quality, middle-6 scoring depth.

I hesitate to offer him more than the Nylander contract in Toronto.
 
Pens are rebuilding so he just doesn't fit the timeline. Plus Sid even with 2 years is not enough time to get back to cup contention even with smart moves of trades and FA signings. I sense the Leafs just will do a deal and he is a leaf.
 
Realistically its going to be a 13.5 X 7 contract but who can afford that right now with signing their current UFAs/RFAs?

San Jose
Calgary
Columbus
Utah
Anaheim
St. Louis (would require moves but close enough to discuss)
Philadelphia (would require moves but close enough to discuss)
Nashville
Pittsburgh
Boston
Carolina (would require moves but close enough to discuss)
Detroit (would require moves but close enough to discuss)
Chicago

My personal bet is Carolina is the favorite to sign him if he goes to market. I put Columbus as the dark horse to sign him since there has been interest in the past and also he will be see as the replacement goldfish to Johnny.
 
fbuford said:
Draisaitl, Matthews, Barkov, McDavid, MacKinnon, Eichel are the only forwards better than Marner IMO.

Now, can Marner generate 100+ point seasons without Matthews? That remains the question.

Whenever Matthews is injured, you'll see Marner take more initiative to score, so yes, I think he can generate similar offense with subpar players.

Now he is not a selke level defender, but, make no mistake -- Marner is extremely competent in his own end. He doesn't make any mistakes, but, once again, he isn't a shutdown guy.

He is just sound defensively, meaning he is overall a net positive defensively. Not a lot forwards including Kucherov, Kaprizov, Draisaitl are as good as Marner defensively.



Now take the example on the Leafs of Nylander v Marner, Nylander is a better skater and shooter, and he's also a great playmaker.

But, what seperates Marner from Nylander, is his defensive and offensive awareness.
He will never make any mistakes defensively or offensively.

However, at times, Marner's compete level is very questionable, he lacks the desire to win and the motor of a franchise player i.e. Mcdavid/Draisaitl/Matthews etc

So all in all, I don't think to a contender he is worth 14 million, it's better spent in other facets.
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If youre gonna have Draisaitl with his questionable defense, then you have to include Kucherov no?
 
Antropovsky said:
You haven't watched the Leafs playoffs either.

Marnee literally is 40' away from the net in the offensive zone. Media has posted data showing Marner is proportionally much further from the net then in the season relative any of the other Leaf core.

He also is taking the least amount of slot shots compared to ANY leaf player.yes even 4th liners.

How can Marners line produce if Marner isn't competing? If he's on the perimeter or standing at the blueline? They cant...its essentially 4v5. If they do score Matthews does everything, short of making a play with Marners stick.

Mcdavid alluded to Marners perimeter play at 4Nations. Mcdavid was asked to talk about his linemates Reinhart and Marner and he said this about Marner "Marner, the playmaker, umm kinda plays high in the zone" yes, that's the best compliment (is it a compliment) he could come up with for Marner.

Marner and him were caught in a heated discussion at the bench in game 1. Marner was interviewed and said "we are still working out where eachother is on the ice". Note that Marner was suddenly playing a little closer to the net then he ever does in Toronto. Probably because Mcdavid was yelling at him.

Hmm and Coopers faith in him wavered too... first line game 1, dropped to 2nd line game 2, least amount of 5v5 minutes by game 3, and game 4 he was given an opportunity when he ("looked like he had legs"). Cooper also gave him a backhanded compliment and said "he doesnt have any one skill that he does better than anyone on the ice, but can you say anyone played better?" Or something to that effect. That was game 1 though and by game 3 he was the least played forward 5v5.

Last years playoffs Hrudey and Biz on different networks did separate intermissions focused on Marners "pathetic" battle/effort to fight for pucks. Both said he was pathetic.

This all isn't a coincidence lol.

Marner is terrified of the dirty areas of the ice.

Good player but huge warts and I definitely would quickly walk away, with a very big grin, before paying him an elite contract.

One of the slowest player on the ice (around 60% percentile), among weakest shot and around 300th in the league in xg/60. It will be bad if he isnt with one of the top 5 players in the league leaders he is in Toronto. Not to mention a PP that includes Tavares, Nylander, Matthews (3 of the leavues best natural goal scorers).
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Marner is one of the rare elite playmaking and play driving wingers. He doesn't need to get his hands dirty, it's his linemates job to go in the trenches and get open.
 
Chicago goes 14.285 million x7 100 million dollar man.

Does Toronto match that at 12.5 million for 8? Yea probably.
 
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Doubt he comes here, but Anaheim should offer him a huge contract. They desperately need a top line RW to replace Killorn on the Carlsson line. Cronin can probably coach him into a 70 point forward.
 
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BHawk21 said:
Chicago goes 14.285 million x7 100 million dollar man.

Does Toronto match that at 12.5 million for 8? Yea probably.
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This isn't really how it works. A Marner level player assumes he's still gonna be able to make good money at 35 years old.

With the 7 year deal he gets more money quicker and then gets more money in a contract a year earlier. Toronto isn't fighting $100M. They're fighting $100M plus whatever he could make in UFA a year earlier.
 
Before the playoffs, maybe 12.5M x 8 years = 100M

I'd offer to front load the absolute hell out of it so his money can make him more money and obviously endorsements etc come into play. His family, his wife's family etc is all here and a kid is coming.

No one does signing bonuses like Toronto where it's like 91-92% of the player's salary by year.

If he has a poor playoff then I am more inclined to break up the group.
 
BHawk21 said:
Chicago goes 14.285 million x7 100 million dollar man.

Does Toronto match that at 12.5 million for 8? Yea probably.
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FriendlyGhost92 said:
This isn't really how it works. A Marner level player assumes he's still gonna be able to make good money at 35 years old.
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the real reason why it doesn't work is because toronto loses the ability to offer an 8th year once free agency opens.

granted everyone tampers nowadays, but if chicago formally offers that deal and he goes back to toronto to counter, they won't be able to give him an 8th year either by then.
 
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