Not really off to the best start, are we?
- Thread starter waffledave
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Back when the Gomez, Gionta deals were done and we let everyone go for nothing I said we screwed ourselves for the next four or five years. Now we're at the end of that crap.
The sooner we deal away some of these guys and get back to rebuilding the better. As for this year, I have no idea if we'll make the playoffs. I'd be a lot happier though if I heard some proactive planning coming from management on a rebuild.
We're partway there already. I'll be happy when this chapter of the team is over. Just wish we'd work to get it over with sooner.
The sooner we deal away some of these guys and get back to rebuilding the better. As for this year, I have no idea if we'll make the playoffs. I'd be a lot happier though if I heard some proactive planning coming from management on a rebuild.
We're partway there already. I'll be happy when this chapter of the team is over. Just wish we'd work to get it over with sooner.
Awesome! And you know what, Gio (showing why he is captain) is the type of guy to lift Chara off of him and fight for the puck. Always amazes me how much effort he gives. I know people don't like to throw the Koivu card around (FTR I'm "that generation" too and he's my all time fav.), but when you look at positives, Gio's work ethic and playing like he's 6'2 is one. Excited to see him healthy again.
This site is full of drama queens...as soon as a comment in read on a messageboard it turns into fact.(...Subban wants Doughty money!!! Let's trade him!!!).
As soon as a player is quoted being pissed at the lock out or the CBA it's a big deal and needs it's own thread(...Cole wants to retire!!!).
Some rogue reporter quotes "anonymous sources" saying one of our top prospects is getting "abused"."...OMG I can't believe Lefevre and Brisebois are yelling at LeBlanc...fire them alll!!!).
Like...wow...just wow!
As soon as a player is quoted being pissed at the lock out or the CBA it's a big deal and needs it's own thread(...Cole wants to retire!!!).
Some rogue reporter quotes "anonymous sources" saying one of our top prospects is getting "abused"."...OMG I can't believe Lefevre and Brisebois are yelling at LeBlanc...fire them alll!!!).
Like...wow...just wow!
There are some drama queens. But there are an equal amount of drama queens that get frustrated when people on an anonymous Habs message board discuss things related to....wait for it....The Habs.
What else are we supposed to talk about? lol
I'd say the vast majority of fans discuss the subjects at hand with rational and logic. Pay no attention to the vocal, illogical, emotional minority.
It can ALL be made up and fake, but it's out there. And when it's out there, people talk about it. And when people talk about it, the media starts to blow it out of proportion. And that creates off ice problems and starts rumours and BAM, before you know it, Cammalleri is traded for Bourque.
I think it is a much better time than we have seen for years.
- Bourque, Kaberle, Pacioretty and Eller all look to be in great shape/health.
- Gaineys mark is almost gone from the team.
- Manangment will treat the team like a business and not an "old boys" club.
- Lots of picks for the future.
- NO ONE is bigger than the team.
I for one am optimistic.
- Bourque, Kaberle, Pacioretty and Eller all look to be in great shape/health.
- Gaineys mark is almost gone from the team.
- Manangment will treat the team like a business and not an "old boys" club.
- Lots of picks for the future.
- NO ONE is bigger than the team.
I for one am optimistic.
Usually the ìnsider`stuff isn`t fake. But something that somebody brings from the Trade Rumors board usually is...or some journalist nobody ever heard of calling out the Habs for humiliating one of their best prospects...the source has to be considered.
I've never seen you be optimistic about the habs ever before. This is promising.
So far I love whats happened. We have a new GM who added some much needed grit to our team, we had a fantastic draft this past summer, Pricey is locked up for a long time and Gomer has been sent home. These are all positives. Yes we need to lock up Subb's but aside from that we are in good shape.
Go Habs go!!
Go Habs go!!
We've kept a lot of players longer then we should of, this ship has been on cruise control for the last couple of years and now there are players who are questioning whether being here is the right choice for them.
Players are smart enough to see the writing on the wall, it's time to start clearing out the players who aren't going to matter 3 - 5 years from now.
Players are smart enough to see the writing on the wall, it's time to start clearing out the players who aren't going to matter 3 - 5 years from now.
two reactions:
- just win baby.
Montreal is a results-based hockey/media market. If the team wins, things will be overly positive, if the team sucks, it will be overly negative.
Nothing new here. i don't think the potential negative impact of this year's team being bad will be any worse than last season, or previous years. Really, we can't do much worse than last year, and we did it with an angle coach and a GM who wasn't particularly interested in making friends with the media or the fan base.
Bergevin seems both more saavy in that regard, and more likeable overall... add in a french canadian coach, and i think that even if the team stumbles, the public/media reaction will be softer than last year.
- tells us something we don't know.
we just came off of the worst season in modern franchise history... and our off-season moves consist of (finally) benching our cap nightmare, signing a few bottom-6 role players, playing contract chicken with our best D-man, and bringing in a new coach who won't get a regular training camp to help with the familiarization of the players to a new system.
expectations should be about as low as they come.... they won't be, because this is montreal, but realistically it would be pretty difficult for this team to underachieve.
hopefully, the franco-additions at various management/coaching levels, coupled with the brutally bad year last year, will give us all a bit of reprieve from the over-the-top emotional reactions to another non-playoff season.
and maybe, just maybe, with the quirkiness of a shortened season, our team will find a way to put together 1-2 hot streaks enough to get into the playoffs... that alone should be enough to be considered a successful year one for the new direction, and give us all a season we can enjoy.
Andy I do not get you...
seems like you love nothing more to argue relentlessly that previous management was not "that" bad..."
and yet here you flat out state that "this year our team is crap on paper and will probably be crap"?
would a good (or even average) management team put together a crap team? (while benefiting from solid drafting, and years of cap ceiling spending?)
MB hasn't added much to the team this year, but aside from Gomez (and Darche), he hasn't gotten rid of anything he inherited.
Gainey/Gauthier built this "crap on paper" team... and they did so despite having some of the best resources available to them compared to their peers ($$, draft/scouting team strength, organizational/legacy appeal).
I get labeled as a lover only because I didn't speak in hyperbole's when old management was here. To say that team is currently crap is not say that it was crap every single year from 2003-2012. 07-08-08-09 had good teams on paper (only one of those years were successful). 09-10 the habs got lucky (I want to clarify that I think were lucky in the regular season squeaking into the playoffs, I though they played pretty well for the team they had in the post season) and I thought that 10-11 the team was trending upwards (they were actually a very good team despite losing Markov and Gorges) until the Pacioretty injury. Management in 11-12 took the right move in bringing Cole, but made a wrong move in not getting a Hamrlik type (when Hamrlik was at the top his game here) replacement on D and banking everything on Markov being healthy, which I explained a thousand times before that season started. We finished last and the team gutted its depth on the wings by dumping Andrei and Cammalleri. And of course, the defense was never fixed from the start. I never said the management was exceptional, I just said they weren't nearly as bad as what they have been portrayed as by Habs fans. Apparently this last statement means I think the management is awesome.
They made some good moves and some bad ones. Gainey and Gauthier's plans failed in the end and now they are gone and it happens.
The forward depth at the start of last season was good. It was finally refreshing to see the team have 3 potential scoring lines (and well balanced ones at that) after the team had signed Cole, but Gauthier gambled everything on Markov being healthy and lost spectacularly. Also selling depth when you are not in a playoff position generally will make your team weaker. The defense of the current team isn't built very well (a problem which I admitted several times before the last season started, but I guess since I'm a "Gauthier-Gainey lover/apologizer" etc etc everyone overlooked how many times I said that the defense needed work BEFORE 11-12 season started). Losing Gill, who isn't the best d-man in the world, but does make the D a lot better, at least if he would be at his level just the year prior to last season, doesn't make the current D-core look any better.
Of course, they sold their offensive depth and never fixed the problem on defense. If the D-core was better (hey for all we know, Diaz and Emelin progress well, Markov stays healthy and it works) I wouldn't be surprised to see the current team squeak into the playoffs. I think the forward group can be (if arranged properly with Cole and Pacioretty spread out) good enough to make this a 7th-8th-9th place team as it isn't any worse than the forward group we have in 09-10 with Eastern Conference birth.
Anyway, s**t happens. They had a plan it didn't work out and we move on. The are in a transition period, but the core is there and it's not as though there isn't anything to work with. The only place that needs significant work is winger depth. Defense could use some work, but I'd rather they just stand pat on the front and wait for Beaulieu, Tinordi and Ellis to develop. I think the centre depth is good for once. Of course there is always room for improvement, even the best teams, but I would be more than comfortable with Desharnais-Plekanec-Eller and Galchenyuk as my centre depth, especially if Galchenyuk develops into what we expect him to, let's hope.
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I think it's really tough to really know just where our team will end up.
Cole is only talking smack imo. Just sounds like a frustrated kid.
Eller, MaxPac, DD, PK, Price, Emelin, Diaz, are all young players that should be better than last year and keep improving over the years. The good news is that some of these guys, from what they've shown, can have really high ceilings.
MaxPac hit 33G last year. Is 35-40 goals out of the question? I don't think so.
DD has done nothing but overachieve in his career at every level. I wouldn't be surprised if he did it at the NHL level as well.
I don't think I have to explain how PK and Price have superstar potential, and aren't really that far from reaching it.
The way Emelin and Diaz played last year in their first season coming from Europe was very promising, and both were having great years on their respective teams this year. I'm excited to see how these guys progress.
Eller is more of a question mark, however, I'm not doubting his offensive skills. I just don't think we've utilized that part of his game that well. He showed great things with AK, but unfortunately, due to an inexplicable reason Cunneyworth decided to put an end to that. Hopefully he'll get more chances this year to prove his offensive worth.
Then you have Markov. If he somehow can get back to 80% of what he was, then he'll be a great asset to have as well.
Plekanec is always solid, Cole had a great year. Gionta will hopefully stay healthy this time around. If Bourque and Kaberle can have bounce back years, then they can help better this club as well.
As for Leblanc, if the rumors are true about him being destroyed confidence wise and he hates it in Hamilton under the coaching staff, then this call up should be a huge motivational boost to earn his spot with the big club.
You can say I'm taking the opposite approach to you. Now, obviously, nobody should expect everything to just go right, for everybody. Very highly unlikely. But it'll be interesting to see what happens.
The "G" error (not a type-o) was never a real foundation to begin with. Gainey, Gauthier, Gomez, Gionta... nah, nothing more than a pathetic attempt at saving face. Stop gaps. This team fell apart the day Saku Koivu, the team's leader and heart and soul, signed with the Ducks.
Trading for Gainey took away a key prospect, too. The shrimp era was pathetic and I am glad to have some grit on the team once more. It was embarrassing watching the HABS get beaten to bloody pulps against Boston. Anyway, few agree with any of this, so...
Trading for Gainey took away a key prospect, too. The shrimp era was pathetic and I am glad to have some grit on the team once more. It was embarrassing watching the HABS get beaten to bloody pulps against Boston. Anyway, few agree with any of this, so...
I like the energy and the attention the team has been getting since the end of the lock-out. There really seems to be a buzz around the team.
Michel Therrien is trying to push the team in the right way, he's trying to challenge them into giving the best of themselves and not just being a figure of authority. He certainly doesn't want to miss his chance of building a successful habs franchise and does not want to be remembered as the coach who had two shots and failed twice. His previous experience as a habs coach can't hurt also, he knows what he's facing.
I think that we cannot underestimate the struggles of the previous management and its effect on the team's performance. Starting with the loss of Kirk Muller who was the guy that actually did the talking to the players while Jacques Martin worked mainly on strategy. Michel Therrien does not need an assistant to do the talking. As for Randy Cunneyworth who is not responsible for being put in a situation where he was in over his head, he did not have the necessary experience to manage the team and I don't think the players gave him much attention.
The fact of the matter is that the habs are now back in their comfort zone, being the underdog. Every bit of success the team gets is going to feel unexpected and that's how the habs roll, the little guys who don't hit much but have great special units and a lot of boost when playing at home.
Michel Therrien is trying to push the team in the right way, he's trying to challenge them into giving the best of themselves and not just being a figure of authority. He certainly doesn't want to miss his chance of building a successful habs franchise and does not want to be remembered as the coach who had two shots and failed twice. His previous experience as a habs coach can't hurt also, he knows what he's facing.
I think that we cannot underestimate the struggles of the previous management and its effect on the team's performance. Starting with the loss of Kirk Muller who was the guy that actually did the talking to the players while Jacques Martin worked mainly on strategy. Michel Therrien does not need an assistant to do the talking. As for Randy Cunneyworth who is not responsible for being put in a situation where he was in over his head, he did not have the necessary experience to manage the team and I don't think the players gave him much attention.
The fact of the matter is that the habs are now back in their comfort zone, being the underdog. Every bit of success the team gets is going to feel unexpected and that's how the habs roll, the little guys who don't hit much but have great special units and a lot of boost when playing at home.
so maybe in the future we can save everyone extensive bandwith... "habs fans" as you use it above is a pretty generic term.
I find right here in this board, that there are countless variations, sometimes quite subtle, in what "habs fans" think/say.
in previous back-forths with you, it has often come across as though you were quite unwilling to view the previous management team's overall performance as subpar.
unless you think it is only possible to evaluate a management team's performance after the moment they get fired, it would stand to reason that their failure (as you note above) was visible for at least some time before the actual firing/change of direction occurred.
in all of our, sometimes lengthy, postings, I've often found myself questioning how a poster who otherwise seemed to be able to discuss topics/points in such a rational manner, was so fixated on emphasizing the strength of a management team that was spiralling toward failure.
as unpredictable as team/pro sports can be, there are some very predictable patterns that both successful & unsuccessful teams/organizations/individuals reflect. It's not an exact science, but, as they say...
"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."
or, perhaps more suitable in this case:
"If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands."
this is where I'd say that a guy like O'byrne (as much as I do like what Bournival *might* one day be as an NHLer), was poorly dismissed.
I'm high on Weber (probably to optimistic), but with our group of Dmen, with or without the Kaberle addition, would look a lot better with O'byrne (and his skill set/abilities) pencilled in as a bottom-pairing (or in exceptional situations, top-4) dman. Imo not far off from what Gill, in his good moments, brought to the team (big body, ability to make safe first pass to clear the zone, ability to hold his ground in front of the net).
Bournival may eventually be an exceptional 3rd liner, but those are not so hard to find, a lot easier than a home-grown, large dman with solid mobility & decent passing skills.
current D has too much of one (broad) mould of dman (strong skating/passing, weak physically) and an almost complete lack of the complimentary mould (and to put the cherry on top, we go out and sign a depth guy who has the perfect attitude/heart/toughness, but is almost comically miscast in that role due to his miniscule size)
there certainly is enough pure hockey talent on our roster to ice a playoff team... all comes back to odds when looking at it before the fact.
our roster is poorly assembled to be resilient in the face of injuries/underachievement/cohesiveness in the face of shortened season (despite an almost completely "returning" roster).
most of that falls on gainey/gauthier's shoulders.
but certainly, if enough things go right (or, perhaps, few enough things go wrong), then we can be a playoff team, and with the kind of goaltending Price is capable of & the positive emotional surge success in montreal can give to a team in the playoffs (good luck finding a stat to back that one... but without a doubt, the positive energy of playoff time in montreal can have a positive effect on helping a team overachieve... or conversely, push a struggling team over the edge, more so than in markets with less of a city-wide cult-ish following).
i don't know that they had much of a plan, at least beyond year-to-year... that's a case I've made enough in the past, no need to rehash that now.
The team is in a transition period and the most exciting part of it is that, in our very limited exposure, it would seem that the new group does indeed have a plan/vision in place and is working toward that.
and with Perry, Semin, Iginla, Lupul, Elias, Morrow, Horton, Clowe, Gagne, Filpulla... the list of prospective UFA wingers for this summer is pretty solid (especially if MaxPac takes another step forward & Cole/Gionta can maintain).
Adding any one of those (or better 2) coupled with our existing players staying on track, and our forward group looks pretty solid.
I agree with standing pat on defense.
Subban (assuming we keep him) & Gorges are staples.
Markov/Kaberle, as long as 1 of the 2 regains som
Diaz/Emelin/Weber... if even just 1 of the continues to progress positively, that's great.
Beaulieu/Tinordi/Elis/Bennett... that's a pretty solid prospect pool to work with
Yes it's a bad start if you like business as usual. Falling in love with mediocre players. Never being tough as an orgnization. 8th place finishes and no chance to win the cup. Afraid to make the tough decisions.
Time to be strong. Gomez go home. Nice guy but overpaid, poor example for others. Cole is being paid to be a leader. You want to retire, gtfo. Leblanc's psyche? Okay. Sorry to hear that. Maybe toughen up? Maybe take the Chris Nilan / Larry Robinson class in toughness? Wow seriously.
Time to be strong. Gomez go home. Nice guy but overpaid, poor example for others. Cole is being paid to be a leader. You want to retire, gtfo. Leblanc's psyche? Okay. Sorry to hear that. Maybe toughen up? Maybe take the Chris Nilan / Larry Robinson class in toughness? Wow seriously.
Gionta is a model player. He really just cares so much every shift. Solid Captain, I've never really ever had a complaint about him. I think he was the perfect guy to be the C after Saku. Quietly lead by example. His production is solid too, I hope he can pot some goals for us this year and stay healthy.
I've been hoping a lot of it is just the Canadiens-Media-Industrial-Complex making up for lost time and ad revenues. I think the lockout left a lot of emotions raw, and things will settle down when they start getting on the road with one another and playing some games.
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