Not many teams in the league have a meaner Dcore than us

[phillipmike]

Is Kubina the best 3rd defenseman we have had since the early 90s? Svehla maybe 3rd best on that team but for that 1 year he may have been first or 2nd

I’d say so. Kubina was so underrated. Most D goals on Tampa’s cup winning team in regular season with 17. Right there with Dan Boyle in points 35 to Boyle’s 39. Also played more playoff minutes than Dan Boyle. He was their horse on D.

Then came to the leafs and played 22+ minutes a night and almost averaged 40 points in all 3 season with the leafs. And led the Leafs in goals among D in his final 2 seasons.

He joins Reilly, Kabwrle and McCabe as Leafs D in the last 20+ years to score multiple double digits in goals.

Hoping OEL can do that with this team. Need more goals from the D.

 

[Mikey Leaf]

Dubas initially removed the teams grit.. then he realized, or Shanahan made him realize, that you need players who are willing to play physical. Feels like it has taken years to inject it back into the roster. Recall that Dubas said its not thst they didnt want it, its they want players with it who can play (or something like that). Or maybe i just like an abnormally physical team.

Dubas had a penchant for drafting right shot defensemen that were shorter than 6 feet. Couldnt understand his drafting....this is why we dont have too many defensive prospects ready for a job in the nhl now

 

[Maple Leaf]

Dubas had a penchant for drafting right shot defensemen that were shorter than 6 feet. Couldnt understand his drafting....this is why we dont have too many defensive prospects ready for a job in the nhl now

That is bad
You would think after drafting top end forwards you build a defense
Pepperidge farm remembers

 

[notbias]

Dubas had a penchant for drafting right shot defensemen that were shorter than 6 feet. Couldnt understand his drafting....this is why we dont have too many defensive prospects ready for a job in the nhl now

100% wrong... we don't have many D prospects ready for a job because Hunter drafted useless trees.

Since Rielly's draft, here are the D that have played at least 40 games: Durzi, Sandin, Liljegren, and Dermott

There were plenty of tall D drafted that did nothing because getting tall D who are really good at hockey happens in the first round usually.

 

[Mikey Leaf]

100% wrong... we don't have many D prospects ready for a job because Hunter drafted useless trees.

Since Rielly's draft, here are the D that have played at least 40 games: Durzi, Sandin, Liljegren, and Dermott

There were plenty of tall D drafted that did nothing because getting tall D who are really good at hockey happens in the first round usually.

Dubas being an analytics person drafted a lot of 5 '9 players...the irony here is that if you look around the league there are not too many small players in the league by numbers...it seems the obvious answer is you cant be small to play in this league but he was trying to go against the analytics???

 

[ULF_55]

We never got to see him in a playoff game in Vancouver so maybe he ramps it up a bit then.

In two full regular seasons here, the guy was about as much of a muffin as an NHL D could possibly be.

Well, come on, it is so mellow in Vancouver ... mind you I spend most of my time there waiting for the Nanaimo Ferry to arrive.

Did the Canucks ever have a healthy Ekman-Larsson?

 

[notbias]

Dubas being an analytics person drafted a lot of 5 '9 players...the irony here is that if you look around the league there are not too many small players in the league by numbers...it seems the obvious answer is you cant be small to play in this league but he was trying to go against the analytics???

The last 5 Norris Trophy winners are 6'1, 6'0, 6'0, 5'11, and 5'10.

Good D come in all sizes, no clue what you're rambling on about, but he drafted the best D regardless of size, that was the criteria, there were some taller D.

 

[Stephen]

The last 5 Norris Trophy winners are 6'1, 6'0, 6'0, 5'11, and 5'10.

Good D come in all sizes, no clue what you're rambling on about, but he drafted the best D regardless of size, that was the criteria, there were some taller D.

Size, height, weight doesn't matter when you're an exceptional Norris Trophy winning defenseman, but the lower you go on the pecking order and skill level goes down, size becomes a differentiator. No one wants a 5'9" defenseman on a third pair.

 

[Mikey Leaf]

The last 5 Norris Trophy winners are 6'1, 6'0, 6'0, 5'11, and 5'10.

Good D come in all sizes, no clue what you're rambling on about, but he drafted the best D regardless of size, that was the criteria, there were some

The last 5 Norris Trophy winners are 6'1, 6'0, 6'0, 5'11, and 5'10.

Good D come in all sizes, no clue what you're rambling on about, but he drafted the best D regardless of size, that was the criteria, there were some taller D.

 

[Stephen]

We never got to see him in a playoff game in Vancouver so maybe he ramps it up a bit then.

In two full regular seasons here, the guy was about as much of a muffin as an NHL D could possibly be.

OEL really wrecked his reputation in Vancouver but seems to have found his game in Florida last year. Hopefully we got the good version and not the guy falling all over the ice in scrimmage.

 

[Mikey Leaf]

Size, height, weight doesn't matter when you're an exceptional Norris Trophy winning defenseman, but the lower you go on the pecking order and skill level goes down, size becomes a differentiator. No one wants a 5'9" defenseman on a third pair.

The only defenseman from the last 5 years that won a cup is Makar. Have you looked at the size of the defense core of the last 5 years that won a cup. All of those teams the collective size of the defense core was huge.

 

[ToneDog]

Dubas being an analytics person drafted a lot of 5 '9 players...the irony here is that if you look around the league there are not too many small players in the league by numbers...it seems the obvious answer is you cant be small to play in this league but he was trying to go against the analytics???

Nah, he was just dumb. His best pick will be a big 6'3" power forward. Hope he and his side kick Wes keep drafting smurfs for the Pens until he is fired.

 

[notbias]

Size, height, weight doesn't matter when you're an exceptional Norris Trophy winning defenseman, but the lower you go on the pecking order and skill level goes down, size becomes a differentiator. No one wants a 5'9" defenseman on a third pair.

How many 5'9 D did they draft? Spoiler: 1.

And that player got more games than most of the giants Hunter drafted...

I don't understand why you guys are obsessed with size. Compensation or something? Do you think you didn't make it because you were too scrawny, so you are trying to find an excuse? What is the reasoning?

If the goal is to just draft bottom pairing D and that is the upside you want, just save the picks and get a sure thing at the deadline, we got like 5 of them last year for cheap.

What exactly is the argument? Most people just want good hockey players. Size and skill are harder to come by in later rounds, this is not complicated.

Nah, he was just dumb. His best pick will be a big 6'3" power forward. Hope he and his side kick Wes keep drafting smurfs for the Pens until he is fired.

You should check the drafting before him if you think he was bad... I know some of the newer fans don't know how bad it used to be.

The only defenseman from the last 5 years that won a cup is Makar. Have you looked at the size of the defense core of the last 5 years that won a cup. All of those teams the collective size of the defense core was huge.

Colorado had the best D of all the teams recently, and they were tiny.

Florida's best D were 6 foot last year...

 

[Stephen]

The only defenseman from the last 5 years that won a cup is Makar. Have you looked at the size of the defense core of the last 5 years that won a cup. All of those teams the collective size of the defense core was huge.

There’s always room for exceptional talent in all shapes and sizes at any position. But if it comes down to a mere mortal like Victor Mete, Max Lajoie or a Simon Benoit to round out your number 5, 6, 7 D slot there’s no time to stand up for these 5’9” 180 pound guys.

 

[Stephen]

How many 5'9 D did they draft? Spoiler: 1.

And that player got more games than most of the giants Hunter drafted...

I don't understand why you guys are obsessed with size. Compensation or something? Do you think you didn't make it because you were too scrawny, so you are trying to find an excuse? What is the reasoning?

If the goal is to just draft bottom pairing D and that is the upside you want, just save the picks and get a sure thing at the deadline, we got like 5 of them last year for cheap.

What exactly is the argument? Most people just want good hockey players. Size and skill are harder to come by in later rounds, this is not complicated.

Mac Hollowell, John Fusco, Kalle Loponen, Michael Koster aren’t exactly worth drafting when the upside is Matt Grcelzyk, and your blueline doesn’t have room for a Matt Grcelzyk…

 

[Mikey Leaf]

There’s always room for exceptional talent in all shapes and sizes at any position. But if it comes down to a mere mortal like Victor Mete, Max Lajoie or a Simon Benoit to round out your number 5, 6, 7 D slot there’s no time to stand up for these 5’9” 180 pound guys.

I agree with you whole heartedly. Mitch Marner is a small playee that is very talented...the bottom line is you cant have a team full of small players ..

 

[Stephen]

I agree with you whole heartedly. Mitch Marner is a small playee that is very talented...the bottom line is you cant have a team full of small players ..

Yep exactly. If you want to build with Mitch, as we have. He needs to be protected with a big strong team around him and behind him.

 

[notbias]

Mac Hollowell, John Fusco, Kalle Loponen, Michael Koster aren’t exactly worth drafting when the upside is Matt Grcelzyk, and your blueline doesn’t have room for a Matt Grcelzyk…

Matt Grcelzyk is better than multiple D on our team...

 

[Mikey Leaf]

Matt Grcelzyk is better than multiple D on our team...

What is grcelzyk to do when someone like matthee tkachuk is in front of the net for tips or waiting for rebounds?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Dubas initially removed the teams grit.. then he realized, or Shanahan made him realize, that you need players who are willing to play physical. Feels like it has taken years to inject it back into the roster. Recall that Dubas said its not thst they didnt want it, its they want players with it who can play (or something like that). Or maybe i just like an abnormally physical team.

The grit, heart, and soul of this team was systematically stripped away from 2018-19 to 2020-21. Martin and Komarov were traded and walked. Kadri was dumped because he couldn’t be trusted. Brown and Moore traded. Hyman allowed to walk. These were guys that could form a strong nucleus of camaraderie, toughness, and do anything it takes attitude and we allowed it to disappear. Replacing the aforementioned players with softies like Kerfoot, Engvall, Mikheyev, Gauthier, Kampf, and Kase.

There were some unforeseen issues that aren’t entirely on Dubas. Muzzin’s injury issues were a catastrophe with how effective a D-Man he was and the physicality he played with. Bogosian hating Canada and bolting after one season was also not his fault. However there were unforced errors, like some of the moves mentioned above, or the infamous Marchment for Malgin trade.

From 2021 on it was always a scramble for Dubas to trade for and manufacture that “willing to do whatever it takes” grit, toughness, and heart needed to win on this team. Mortgaging so much of the future on scrubs like Foligno and Nash. Signings like Vesey and Ritchie, desperate to find a physical replacement in the top six to fill the Hyman-shaped hole. Having to pay more for McCabe and O’Reilly because we had to attach Acciari and Lafferty with them to fill out the bottom six with grinders who were actually physical. Bringing Schenn in because he built a right side defence with charmin-soft Brodie and Holl. Every TDL was like a student doing a last-minute paper that was due the next morning, only the “paper” in this context is an NHL roster.

Now it’s not like Dubas left us nothing to work with. He drafted Knies and signed McMann. And McCabe came with a contract for two more years. Bunting was a nice find and could’ve been re-signed but all parties are better off currently. But man, did this Maple Leaf squad go from being a team to being a merry-go-round of mercenaries and tweeners.

 

[Mikey Leaf]

The grit, heart, and soul of this team was systematically stripped away from 2018-19 to 2020-21. Martin and Komarov were traded and walked. Kadri was dumped because he couldn’t be trusted. Brown and Moore traded. Hyman allowed to walk. These were guys that could form a strong nucleus of camaraderie, toughness, and do anything it takes attitude and we allowed it to disappear. Replacing the aforementioned players with softies like Kerfoot, Engvall, Mikheyev, Gauthier, Kampf, and Kase.

Muzzin’s injury issues were a catastrophe too with how effective a D-Man he was and the physicality he played with.

From 2021 on it was always a scramble for Dubas to trade for and manufacture that “willing to do whatever it takes” grit, toughness, and heart needed to win on this team. Mortgaging so much of the future on scrubs like Foligno and Nash. Signings like Vesey and Ritchie, desperate to find a physical replacement in the top six to fill the Hyman-shaped hole. Having to pay more for McCabe and O’Reilly because we had to attach Acciari and Lafferty with them to fill out the bottom six with grinders who were actually physical. Every TDL was like a student doing a last-minute paper that was due the next morning, only the “paper” in this context is an NHL roster.

Now it’s not like Dubas left us nothing to work with. He drafted Knies and signed McMann. And McCabe came with a contract for two more years. Bunting was a nice find and could’ve been re-signed but all parties are better off currently. But man, did this Maple Leaf squad go from being a team to being a merry-go-round of mercenaries and tweeners.

Amen bro! Not resigning Hyman was so tragic.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I'm not convinced this defense is either all that tough or all that good.

Tanev's reputation is hyped. Even healthy he's gonna disappoint a lot of people is my guess. Hakanpaa and Benoit won't play enough to deter the opposition from fighting anyone other than Hakanpaa and Benoit.

Treliving signed all these guys because he wanted toughness to play a heavy game.

Except the forwards are still soft as butter. And the guys he signed for defense are over the hill and injury prone. You see other organizations mismanage things like this and you laugh.

Well now that laughing stock is the Leafs.

With the familiarity from Calgary I can at least see the thought behind signing Tanev. But time is catching up to him and the length of contract is pathetic. Added to the cost of OEL and Hakanpaa it's concerning.

Now they have no cap space or roster flexibility and are stuck for years with declining vets on retirement deals.

 

[Shooter2x]

Not good for you guys if he hates playing in a Canadian market, then.

But he was always glowing about Vancouver when he was here.

And he was also a giant useless muffin watching a lot of him in Arizona before we got him.

If you think OEL is going to be a physical presence for you, you are going to be horribly disappointed.

I mean, OEL was total ass for you, and Panthers fans witnessed him in a cup run.

The contrast is too wide to take any of your words for it. We just gotta wait and see what version of OEL the Leafs get.

 

[verdi]

Hope springs eternally in Leaf fans.
Every year we go through the same cycle of hope.....

 

[Evilhomer]

I'm not convinced this defense is either all that tough or all that good.

Tanev's reputation is hyped. Even healthy he's gonna disappoint a lot of people is my guess. Hakanpaa and Benoit won't play enough to deter the opposition from fighting anyone other than Hakanpaa and Benoit.

Treliving signed all these guys because he wanted toughness to play a heavy game.

Except the forwards are still soft as butter. And the guys he signed for defense are over the hill and injury prone. You see other organizations mismanage things like this and you laugh.

Well now that laughing stock is the Leafs.

With the familiarity from Calgary I can at least see the thought behind signing Tanev. But time is catching up to him and the length of contract is pathetic. Added to the cost of OEL and Hakanpaa it's concerning.

Now they have no cap space or roster flexibility and are stuck for years with declining vets on retirement deals.

With all your moaning, it's kind of comical to realize that you are complaining about what will probably be a 110 point team and Cup contender.