Not good enough - no playoffs again!

[LiseL]

I mean statistically Tkachuk is a top 25 forward & top 6 winger in terms of production.

In terms of production, I'd say its fine to add Tkachuk to Stu and Sandy as the elite core.

Yes, but how much of his production is due to cheating for offence? He was on the ice for all 3 goals the other night and produced 0. He needs to be sheltered with 2 reponsible linemates to make up for his lack of attention to defence.

I only consider Stu and Sandy (if he can get back to his normal play) as our elite core. I think Yak will make it 3 once he makes the team. If Ullmark can return to form, then he's the 4th.

Pinto's value is he is a right shot center, something rare so I'd keep him. He already knows how to play 200-ft game, don't know what's been going on with him lately. Nagging injury?

 

[LiseL]

The problem is that shit happens to every team, every team makes mistakes that ends up in the net, every team's goalie has bad games.

This roster is proving to be incapable of recovering from setbacks. It is a bit ridiculous how the Philly game, a game where we were dominant has led to this skid. It is kind of sad really.

I haven't given up, it is still early, but I'm definitely starting to wonder if this core can be salvaged from the damage Dorion/Melnyk inflicted on them.

The team is playing so much better than they did under DJ Smith, even when the team looks flat under Green, they don't look completely outmatched like when DJ was in charge.

The results are a major bummer but the team plays like it belongs in the NHL, this hasn't been the case for a long time. We looked like a Junior team for most of Dorion's tenure.

It feels like we are so close to being good but the core's confidence is too easily shattered. They never learned how to get back up after a gut punch.

But can you teach mental fortitude, being clutch when it matters? I think the issue is that there are too many top players who suffer from this. If there were only 1-2, then other players could set the tone, take the team on their backs and move forward. Who on this team can do that? I don't see anybody. When the going gets tough, they either revert back to their bad habits or do a lot of puck watching.

 

[LiseL]

The GM was his guy who won him championships in junior. Agree or disagree with the move, I don’t think he cheaped out - he went with the guy he knew.

And SS was being groomed as GM in Edmonton was he not? Now they're stuck with Bowman. I don't think the issues with this team have anything to do with the GM change, it's mostly due to the core.

Although I am starting to question some of Green's decisions. Like the last game, PP2 scores a goal (Gaudette) and they get another PP in the final minutes of the 3rd period. So what does he do: puts in PP1 for the entire PP and they do nothing. Also, he doesn't adjust their play based on their opponent. This team really struggles with fast, possession teams (Avs, Buffalo, Montreal). Why do they try to keep up with them? They need to slow them down, clog up the neutral zone, etc. Also, D seem to always be pinching, even when it's not advisable to do so. They also seem to have issues with line changes. Is this a case of not throwing too much info at the players to not overwhelm them or is it a case of a coach who can't make adjustments on the fly? I guess time will tell.

 

[LiseL]

We are 11th in the NHL in the goals for per game at 3.11
We are tied for 10th with Detroit goals against per game at 3.21

Part of the GPG stat is skewed by the 2 games they scored 8 goals (LA, STL). At the rate they've been scoring lately, that # will get smaller as the season progresses.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

This team hasn’t looked good since the Philly game. It broke them. Canucks are missing their 3 best skaters and the Sens look like a peewee team tonight

 

[inthewings]

OK this team f***ing sucks. We're in a rebuild the rebuild situation here. Dorion legit did like 10-15 years of damage.

 

[jg729]

We should start a poll on what season they will make the playoffs. Because it’s not even close, all the top players suck

 

[Gil Gunderson]

It’s legit funny that this season was ended by Michkov. This team is so shellshocked and has given up because they don’t believe they can do it.

 

[ottawagm]

I'd rather keep Norris over Greig. He's good on the PK, has a great shot, plays a 200-ft game and can finish. I can't say the same for Greig. He's ceiling is bottom 6 IMO.

Agree that Norris is the better player but I think we need the cap space to invest in a different type of player. Need more speed/physicality in the top 6 imo.

 

[Dionysus]

It's such a shame the season has been pretty well lost in November again. Team felt the pressure and folded.

Very disappointing as a fan. Games are verging on being meaningless already and it's not even December.

 

[NinjaSens]

With the offseason changes, I had hopes for this season, that the team would at least fight for a playoff spot till the very end. At the same time, it has become obvious this team's forward group needs another high end talent to support Stutzle offensively. Tkachuk, Batherson and Norris can be forwards 3 to 5.

Considering that our prospect pool is depleted and where we are at this season, as disappointing at it may be, maybe what's best long term is to sacrifice another season to have a good draft pick.

In the end, the goal is the cup, not barely making the playoffs for the next decade.

 

[jbeck5]

Right now, the final wildcard spot by pts% is held by Buf, they are on pace for 86 pts

For us to reach 87 pts, we'd need to get 70 pts in the final 63 games, or a .555 winning % which would rank 15th in the NHL right now,

We just need to be better than Buf, Bost,. Det, Mtl, NYI, Clb, Phi and the Pens at the end of the year (assuming none of the teams pacing at over 100 pts fail to maintain their play)

I don't know why you're talking playoffs. This team will never make the playoffs.

I'm not criticizing you. I'm just saying, for your own sake, it will be easier if you just stop thinking about the playoffs. It will be that much harder.

 

[Answer]

Tkachuk Batherson and Norris are all not good at 5on5 hockey. They might have the talent and skillsets to be really good on the PPs, but that's about it.

Thachuk is a winger and he needs an elite Center to play on the 1st line. (Stutzle is still not there yet)
Norris ceiling is a 2nd line center, at best (he is not a better player than Mike Fisher, who was always been questioned for having tunnel vision)
Batherson is a type of player that any playoff contending team should stay away from

Greig and Pinto have no business playing anywhere in top 2 lines. They are just 3rd line players, who can be elite 3rd line players at their prime. (Think Vermette and Scheafer, and I am not even sure if they are as good as Vermette, at least not yet, and Vermette has always been on the 3rd line)

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Brothers and sisters, if we do make the playoffs by some miracle laid upon us by the God's of hockey we will be penetrated raw in the first round.

I think Chabot would be the very first person to crumble in playoff type games.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

They haven't recovered mentally after losing that Philly game.

 

[PlayOn]

Tkachuk Batherson and Norris are all not good at 5on5 hockey. They might have the talent and skillsets to be really good on the PPs, but that's about it.

Thachuk is a winger and he needs an elite Center to play on the 1st line. (Stutzle is still not there yet)
Norris ceiling is a 2nd line center, at best (he is not a better player than Mike Fisher, who was always been questioned for having tunnel vision)
Batherson is a type of player that any playoff contending team should stay away from

Greig and Pinto have no business playing anywhere in top 2 lines. They are just 3rd line players, who can be elite 3rd line players at their prime. (Think Vermette and Scheafer, and I am not even sure if they are as good as Vermette, at least not yet, and Vermette has always been on the 3rd line)

I think the issue is that Tkachuk, Norris and Batherson are consistently playing on lines with two players on them.

Giroux, Greig, Perron, Amadio… whoever they try in the top 6 hasn’t worked. Maybe if we had McDavid and Draisaitl they could carry their wingers but as it is our guys can’t. I don’t think they are bad 5v5 so much as there are no line combos that are effective at this stage unless you put three of them (including Timmy) together, but then that renders the rest of the team useless.

 

[ChurchOfAlfie]

By my math, this team has played 605 games (including preseason) since the 2017 run.

At an average of 2.5 hours a game, that's just over 63 days of Sens hockey. 63 days.

I honestly don't really know what my point is here lol. Just crazy to think of how long it's been since this team played winning hockey.

 

[DrEasy]

Can't take a pass, can't make a pass, can't shoot the puck, can't stop the puck. More than one issue with this team.

 

[Tuna99]

It’s scary because everybody looks bad, Ullmark .810, Pinto with 0’s across the board again, Greig -2 and no points, Kelvin -2 and is -7 in his last 9 games, Brady with a -1, Amadio played 9 minutes and has 4 points in 20 games, nothing is working. Everything is broken everywhere

They are struggling, but you look for a bright spot and it’s only Timmy and only when he does it alone mostly. Bad bad, not good. Scary sad winter ahead, need a long winning streak NOW. Can’t wait, has to happen now

 

[Xspyrit]

Calgary is 11-6-3 so I would not give us a win against them.
Vancouver is well rested but missing Boeser and JT Miller. That is a team that we should be able to beat.

Yeah but can we beat the Ottawa Senators though? The answer was no and it was without Hughes too

We could lose to an AHL team if that's what we decided to.

Underlying numbers are not a predictor or indicator of what’s to come. They help explain/give context into whats already occured. They’re a different way to look at results.

Will our underlying numbers still be good at Christmas? It’s anyone’s guess.

If you have positive underlying numbers but still lose, that can be taken as a positive, or a negative

Yes it is. That is exactly the point of advanced metrics, to observe tendencies. If a team constantly outshots and outchances its opponents, it's normally a very good sign. But sometimes you have a team like the Ottawa Senators though, with a terrible PDO (2nd worst at 5v5)

Actually, we have the 2nd worst PDO 5 on 5 since 2022-23. Only the Sharks have had worse. Look no further than that

I'd rather keep Norris over Greig. He's good on the PK, has a great shot, plays a 200-ft game and can finish. I can't say the same for Greig. He's ceiling is bottom 6 IMO.

Greig is 22 y/o (August), still on his ELC, is excellent defensively, brings a pest element, has untapped offensive potential and will be cheap to have for years as he is cost controlled. There is absolutely no reason to trade him. We're not going to manufacture a lot of NHL forwards in the short/mid term with how the last 4 drafts went. No reason to ship them off early when that happens. Might as well trade Ostapchuk now as well since he's not going to put a lot of points. It's not a negative if Greig is "only" an excellent 2-way versatile 3rd line forward

 

[Xspyrit]

It's such a shame the season has been pretty well lost in November again. Team felt the pressure and folded.

Very disappointing as a fan. Games are verging on being meaningless already and it's not even December.

The infuriating thing is the East is sucking so far, particularly the Atlantic. The Bruins are 4th, have 6 more points but played 2 more games and a re -19, while we're minus 3.

They could still turn it around easily, but do they understand you have to play all game with "urgency". Every detail counts. I know they went to the "wrong school (I mean, DJ Dorion hockey lol) but they have to learn how to really play in this league night after night and unfortunately for them, they don't have time as a luxury.

OK this team f***ing sucks. We're in a rebuild the rebuild situation here. Dorion legit did like 10-15 years of damage.

My narrative since the 8th game of 2020-21

Up to this day, I don't think everyone realize that Pierre Dorion was the worst NHL GM in history by a comfortable margin. I had started a comparison with Milbury but stopped quickly as I realized it wouldn't be even close. Some will say "move on he's gone". I'm sorry but how can you move on when you have to endure the mess he created almost every game? And that forfeited 1st round pick coming up...

Even when it wasn't his fault, almost everything Dorion touched turned into a big pile of crap. The Zibenajad trade is known as his first ever move but it was actually Alex Chiasson (who was a pretty decent 4th liner IMO, career 13.0 SH%. Tkachuk has 9.7% in comparison) for Patrick Sieloff who pretty much ended Clarke MacArthur's career, one of our best UFA signings ever.

It's basically never ending how Melnyk and Dorion cursed this franchise.

 

[inthewings]

The next year is going to tell is a lot about Andlauer and Staios. We have a capped out non-playoff team with a league worst prospect pool. The correct path forward here is obvious: tear it down. The core Dorion assembled is a failure, and now everyone has to go except Stutzle and Sanderson, and I’m not even sure they should stay.

I understand why they made an effort to win this year, but now that it isn’t happening will they have the appetite to tear it down? If they do, they have a lot of assets to sell, and this time it would A) have financial backing, and B) not be carried out by a bumbling idiot

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

The next year is going to tell is a lot about Andlauer and Staios. We have a capped out non-playoff team with a league worst prospect pool. The correct path forward here is obvious: tear it down. The core Dorion assembled is a failure, and now everyone has to go except Stutzle and Sanderson, and I’m not even sure they should stay.

I understand why they made an effort to win this year, but now that it isn’t happening will they have the appetite to tear it down? If they do, they have a lot of assets to sell, and this time it would A) have financial backing, and B) not be carried out by a bumbling idiot

You absolutely build around those 2. No question

 

[PlayOn]

The next year is going to tell is a lot about Andlauer and Staios. We have a capped out non-playoff team with a league worst prospect pool. The correct path forward here is obvious: tear it down. The core Dorion assembled is a failure, and now everyone has to go except Stutzle and Sanderson, and I’m not even sure they should stay.

I understand why they made an effort to win this year, but now that it isn’t happening will they have the appetite to tear it down? If they do, they have a lot of assets to sell, and this time it would A) have financial backing, and B) not be carried out by a bumbling idiot

This market can’t sustain another rebuild.

Assuming this doesn’t turn around, I think Brady will get traded and maybe Zub. Chabot will be used as a placeholder for a few more years til Kleven/Yak/whatever other young dmen get settled in and get moved then. Batherson might go depending on what return you get for him, if it doesn’t blow them away I’d probably just keep him.

IMO they will opt for a retool where they’re not necessarily trying to tank, just focusing on settling down the fans and developing. I think they will want to be out of it in about 2 years, they can’t really keep icing a losing product for another 5+ years.

 

[inthewings]

You absolutely build around those 2. No question

I think there are real considerations to be made about whether these guys should or want to spend another 3-4 years losing. Because that’s what’s in the cards right now.

This market can’t sustain another rebuild.

Assuming this doesn’t turn around, I think Brady will get traded and maybe Zub. Chabot will be used as a placeholder for a few more years til Kleven/Yak/whatever other young dmen get settled in and get moved then. Batherson might go depending on what return you get for him, if it doesn’t blow them away I’d probably just keep him.

IMO they will opt for a retool where they’re not necessarily trying to tank, just focusing on settling down the fans and developing. I think they will want to be out of it in about 2 years, they can’t really keep icing a losing product for another 5+ years.

That just seems like a recipe for more losing, only without the light at the end of the tunnel. I just don’t see how this team is transformed into a perpetual playoff team by retooling. Improvements will cost cap space and/or pick prospect capital and the team has neither.