Norris Trophy Tournament (1992-Present) Round 1: 2008 Lidstrom vs 1993 Chelios

[blundluntman]

MATCHUP #13 (Round 1): Nicklas Lidstrom (2008) vs Chris Chelios (1993)

Nicklas Lidstrom (2007-08):

Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	Minutes Per Game	Other Stats	Awards/Honors
76	10	60	70	26:16	+40, 23 Takeaways, 39 Giveaways, 70 Blocked Shots, 23 Hits	Norris Trophy, 1st AST, 4th in Hart, 4th in Byng

Chris Chelios (1992-93):

Games Played	Goals	Assists	Points	Minutes Per Game	Other Stats	Awards/Honors
82	15	58	73	N/A	+14	Norris Trophy, 1st AST, 7th in Hart

Round 1 Matchups
24 Hughes vs 20 Josi (Still Active) Thread
23 Karlsson vs 95 Coffey (Still Active) Thread
22 Makar vs 04 Niedermayer (Still Active) Thread
21 Fox vs 97 Leetch (Still Active) Thread
19 Giordano vs 17 Burns (Still Active) Thread
18 Hedman vs 12 Karlsson (Still Active) Thread
16 Doughty vs 03 Lidstrom (Still Active) Thread
15 Karlsson vs 10 Keith (Still Active) Thread
14 Keith vs 07 Lidstrom (Still Active) Thread
13 Subban vs 94 Bourque (Still Active) Thread
11 Lidstrom vs 92 Leetch (Still Active) Thread
09 Chara vs 00 Pronger (Still Active) Thread
08 Lidstrom vs 93 Chelios
06 Lidstrom vs 96 Chelios
02 Lidstrom vs 01 Lidstrom
99 MacIniss vs 98 Blake

Note: Couldn't find advanced metrics for any seasons prior to 2009 so please try your best not to solely rely on them to evaluate players in discussions.

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[tabness]

Chelios in 1992-1993 was just absolutely insane. The only knocks on him are that his shot wasn't as elite as the rest of his game and he didn't score as much as he should have given how much he shot (this is where Steve Smith coming in really helped him) and that he of course dropped the trophy lol



This is the one season Chelios had that I feel straight up clears Lidstrom's long stretch of excellence, and is one of the ones I put amongst the very top in this series.

 

[blundluntman]

Chelios in 1992-1993 was just absolutely insane. The only knocks on him are that his shot wasn't as elite as the rest of his game and he didn't score as much as he should have given how much he shot (this is where Steve Smith coming in really helped him) and that he of course dropped the trophy lol



This is the one season Chelios had that I feel straight up clears Lidstrom's long stretch of excellence, and is one of the ones I put amongst the very top in this series.

What would you say made Chelios better? Offensively it looks like a wash given Lidstrom's teammates vs Chelios' scoring environment but I can't say much since I didn't get to watch 93 Chelios

 

[tabness]

What would you say made Chelios better? Offensively it looks like a wash given Lidstrom's teammates vs Chelios' scoring environment but I can't say much since I didn't get to watch 93 Chelios

I personally don't put as much stock on defensemen points, a 1D could or could not get the stats simply by virtue of the team style and the role they play. There are rare cases like Coffey when the points are far more a reflection of the play, but in many cases, it's a lot more situational for a defensemen than a forward on how many points they rack up, harder to directly attribute the stats to the player themselves.

So like Lidstrom for sure is a better finesse talent than Chelios, outlet pass, skating for sure, and as I mentioned shot as well. But Detroit in 2007-2008 was a puck possession based machine, the points are going to come naturally. The Hawks of the early nineties were a defensive team in a super offensive season, suppressing not just Chelios stats, but Roenick's as well. But just as people at the time looked beyond the stats for Roenick (his stature was higher than many of the centers that outscored him) so was it for Chelios.

Chelios defensively though was just more of a problem for the other teams superstars. Lidstrom never had that aspect to his game, and obviously it wasn't needed nearly to the same level post lockout, but I just prefer the pain and annoyance a guy like Chelios could dish out. In the battles with Detroit, he always f***ed around with Fedorov, and goaded Yzerman to losing his temper and getting off his game.

As compared to 1995-1996 for Chelios, same amount of points (in lower scoring season and all that) but I simply don't think Chelios was as good, team was on the decline and he was playing more offensively at the expense of his defense a bit.

 

[blundluntman]

I personally don't put as much stock on defensemen points, a 1D could or could not get the stats simply by virtue of the team style and the role they play. There are rare cases like Coffey when the points are far more a reflection of the play, but in many cases, it's a lot more situational for a defensemen than a forward on how many points they rack up, harder to directly attribute the stats to the player themselves.

So like Lidstrom for sure is a better finesse talent than Chelios, outlet pass, skating for sure, and as I mentioned shot as well. But Detroit in 2007-2008 was a puck possession based machine, the points are going to come naturally. The Hawks of the early nineties were a defensive team in a super offensive season, suppressing not just Chelios stats, but Roenick's as well. But just as people at the time looked beyond the stats for Roenick (his stature was higher than many of the centers that outscored him) so was it for Chelios.

Chelios defensively though was just more of a problem for the other teams superstars. Lidstrom never had that aspect to his game, and obviously it wasn't needed nearly to the same level post lockout, but I just prefer the pain and annoyance a guy like Chelios could dish out. In the battles with Detroit, he always f***ed around with Fedorov, and goaded Yzerman to losing his temper and getting off his game.

As compared to 1995-1996 for Chelios, same amount of points (in lower scoring season and all that) but I simply don't think Chelios was as good, team was on the decline and he was playing more offensively at the expense of his defense a bit.

That makes a lot of sense. I always liked Chicago's core with guys like Chelios, Roenick & Belfour, maybe one of these days I'll watch some of their early 90s games.

 

[amnesiac]

Close again, but gimme Lidstrom 08 here....

92-93 was much higher scoring than 07-08 too