Nonis Needs to Get On The Phone For Some Defence

[-DeMo-]

we don't need a top 4 or bottom pairing Dmen I personally don't think those types of guys will have that big of an impact on our defensive play. our lack of defense upfront is a big issue but what we really lack is a top pairing Dmen we have enough top 4 bottom pairing guys, if we could get that top pair and move Gleason and Gunner to the bottom 4 we'd be a lot better off. however that piece is probably not available mid-season.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

we don't need a top 4 or bottom pairing Dmen I personally don't think those types of guys will have that big of an impact on our defensive play. our lack of defense upfront is a big issue but what we really lack is a top pairing Dmen we have enough top 4 bottom pairing guys, if we could get that top pair and move Gleason and Gunner to the bottom 4 we'd be a lot better off. however that piece is probably not available mid-season.

Exactly, we need another top pairing defenceman who could turn our shut down pair into a legitimate offensive threat. This is what teams like Los Angeles, St Louis, etc do. One of Franson / Rielly would be on the mid-pairing and form the main offensive pairing much like Shattenkirk does on the Blues. Lastly, our bottom pairing would have to be more defensive-oriented as well.

Say we acquire Giordano...

Giordano - Phaneuf
Rielly/ Franson - Gunnarsson/ Gleasson
Gunnarsson/ Gleasson - Ranger
Extra

I think we need to consider trading both Franson and Gardiner. We just don't need that many offensive defenceman. A defensively focused third pairing could help with the shut down duties up against the second lines.

 

[diceman934]

Exactly, we need another top pairing defenceman who could turn our shut down pair into a legitimate offensive threat. This is what teams like Los Angeles, St Louis, etc do. One of Franson / Rielly would be on the mid-pairing and form the main offensive pairing much like Shattenkirk does on the Blues. Lastly, our bottom pairing would have to be more defensive-oriented as well.

Say we acquire Giordano...

Giordano - Phaneuf
Rielly/ Franson - Gunnarsson/ Gleasson
Gunnarsson/ Gleasson - Ranger
Extra

I think we need to consider trading both Franson and Gardiner. We just don't need that many offensive defenceman. A defensively focused third pairing could help with the shut down duties up against the second lines.

I think anyone who feels that we need to trade Gardiner is not thinking clearly. He has had a very good season with a bad stretch and tonight was very good. I would not trade an asset at its lowest value ever and that is what many on this board are proposing. Franson I can see, as his future here is limited as our prospects are going to make him redundant sooner rather then later. We need another vet who can play the right side to settle our D core right now...Franson being our only right handed D man is an issue. We have a rookie plating his weak side and it is because he has the skill to do so, but we would be better off if we had a solid Right shot D man to pair Gardinar with, this would allow us to make D pairing changes.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

I think anyone who feels that we need to trade Gardiner is not thinking clearly. He has had a very good season with a bad stretch and tonight was very good. I would not trade an asset at its lowest value ever and that is what many on this board are proposing. Franson I can see, as his future here is limited as our prospects are going to make him redundant sooner rather then later. We need another vet who can play the right side to settle our D core right now...Franson being our only right handed D man is an issue. We have a rookie plating his weak side and it is because he has the skill to do so, but we would be better off if we had a solid Right shot D man to pair Gardinar with, this would allow us to make D pairing changes.

If we keep Gardiner, he'll be expected to play a solid two-way game on the third pairing. Otherwise, we may have to have Gardiner and Rielly on one pairing and Gunnarsson - Gleasson as a defensive pairing.

#2 TWD - Dion
Gunnarsson - Gleasson
Rielly - Gardiner

 

[ULF_55]

If we keep Gardiner, he'll be expected to play a solid two-way game on the third pairing. Otherwise, we may have to have Gardiner and Rielly on one pairing and Gunnarsson - Gleasson as a defensive pairing.

#2 TWD - Dion
Gunnarsson - Gleasson
Rielly - Gardiner

Last night if you had swapped Kadri out for a top pairing defender things might have been different, Kadri wouldn't have been missed at any rate.

 

[080]

I think we should go hard after Edler. Vancouver fans say he works best with a more offensive-minded player -- which we have 2 of in Gardiner and Rielly, and potentially Franson but he's not likely to be around in my opinion -- to work with.

You could have a top four of:
Phaneuf - Edler
Rielly - Gunnarsson/Gleason

Phaneuf - Gunnarsson
Edler - Rielly

Then the bottom few spots can be filled with rookies.

Vancouver wants forwards. We have all kinds of guys: Lupul, Raymond, Holland, Kulemin, Biggs, etc.

Edler isn't have a great year so his price tag can't be too high.

 

[Mess]

Tyler Myers or Alex Edler doesn't really matter as you can't go wrong with either as they're both Kelowna Rocket grads.

Rockets are a factory for producing NHL Dmen. .Just look at Team Canada gold medal winning Shea Weber or Duncan Keith.

(Josh Gorges, Luke Schenn, Scott Hannan, Sheldon Souray, etc).

You could assemble a NHL all-star defense from Kelowna grads alone.

 

[Future]

What is really ruffling my Ralph's, is that we have other options from within that we can use to improve our team. Petter Granberg has been playing like a beast with the Marlies. He's a big, young, shutdown RH D. Exactly what we need. I have no idea why he is being ignored. At the very least, give him a call up to see what he can do. Maybe Percy too.

But if we decide to continue to ignore them, then maybe we can go after a guy like Edler. Hasn't been very good the past couple of seasons but I think he can bounce back here. If he doesn't return into a great defenseman again here, I think at the very least he could be a very good second pairing guy.

And if Tyler Myers is available, I'd look at getting him. He's a guy I think would be tremendous for us and a perfect fit. Here, he has Phaneuf, so he doesn't have all the pressure on him anymore like he did in Buffalo to be that number 1 guy. I think he would be very comfortable and grow here. He's actually played well this season after being pretty brutal for the last couple of seasons. But he's a guy with sky high potential and is still only 23/24.

Either way, both of these guys would be significant upgrades to our D core no matter what.

 

[Durkin67]

What is really ruffling my Ralph's, is that we have other options from within that we can use to improve our team. Petter Granberg has been playing like a beast with the Marlies. He's a big, young, shutdown RH D. Exactly what we need. I have no idea why he is being ignored. At the very least, give him a call up to see what he can do. Maybe Percy too.

But if we decide to continue to ignore them, then maybe we can go after a guy like Edler. Hasn't been very good the past couple of seasons but I think he can bounce back here. If he doesn't return into a great defenseman again here, I think at the very least he could be a very good second pairing guy.

And if Tyler Myers is available, I'd look at getting him. He's a guy I think would be tremendous for us and a perfect fit. Here, he has Phaneuf, so he doesn't have all the pressure on him anymore like he did in Buffalo to be that number 1 guy. I think he would be very comfortable and grow here. He's actually played well this season after being pretty brutal for the last couple of seasons. But he's a guy with sky high potential and is still only 23/24.

Either way, both of these guys would be significant upgrades to our D core no matter what.

Carlyle essentially ignored Gardiner around this time last year because a stretch drive is not the time to develop players at the NHL level. Granberg should continue to develop without the pressure of NHL playoffs looming. A good playoff run with the Marlies serves everyones intersts better. Same with the MacWilliam kid. He's a big boy and he can hit, but things like timing, and composure are different at the NHL level, something you are no doubt aware of. I think the Leafs have plenty of offensive skill on the back end between Franson, Gardiner, Rielly and Dion. Another Gleason type like Mark Fistric would make me pretty happy. dude blocks shots, and hits like a damn truck. Cheap deal as well.
The big moves I think need to happen are with an inconsistent second line. Some goal support to create breathing room for Kessel and JvR is going to become increasingly important in the playoffs, when they start taking the pounding that is to come. Kessel is a marked man. each and every team will be riding him like a rented mule in order to frustrate and wear him down. I still think any deal for E. Kane or similar that includes Kadri, Gards, and/or Lupul needs to be explored. That second unit needs to be more effective.

 

[Future]

Carlyle essentially ignored Gardiner around this time last year because a stretch drive is not the time to develop players at the NHL level. Granberg should continue to develop without the pressure of NHL playoffs looming. A good playoff run with the Marlies serves everyones intersts better. Same with the MacWilliam kid. He's a big boy and he can hit, but things like timing, and composure are different at the NHL level, something you are no doubt aware of. I think the Leafs have plenty of offensive skill on the back end between Franson, Gardiner, Rielly and Dion. Another Gleason type like Mark Fistric would make me pretty happy. dude blocks shots, and hits like a damn truck. Cheap deal as well.
The big moves I think need to happen are with an inconsistent second line. Some goal support to create breathing room for Kessel and JvR is going to become increasingly important in the playoffs, when they start taking the pounding that is to come. Kessel is a marked man. each and every team will be riding him like a rented mule in order to frustrate and wear him down. I still think any deal for E. Kane or similar that includes Kadri, Gards, and/or Lupul needs to be explored. That second unit needs to be more effective.

Really? Kadri and Kane were in the same draft and the only thing Kane has on him is that he has been in the league longer. At this stage, Kadri is the better player and is a centre, a position we need. I think in any move involving Kadri for Kane, is just a step backwards. I also don't think Kane fits in with the culture Nonis and Carlyle are trying to build.

 

[Durkin67]

Really? Kadri and Kane were in the same draft and the only thing Kane has on him is that he has been in the league longer. At this stage, Kadri is the better player and is a centre, a position we need. I think in any move involving Kadri for Kane, is just a step backwards. I also don't think Kane fits in with the culture Nonis and Carlyle are trying to build.

Personal preference, I guess. Kane over Kadri all day long for me. He's as skilled, he's much bigger and stronger, and he can play a power game, something not in Nazzy's wheelhouse. The culture as I understand it, is one of courage, commitment, and a willingness to get your nose dirty. That's Kane to a T. He'll fight, hit, and drive the net. That is exactly the kind of player RC wants on his bench, IMO.

 

[ULF_55]

How about Gardiner for Martin Marincin?

Oilers could re-unite the college boys.

Leafs get a 6'4", 22 year old who skates quite well and is a + player on the Oilers. That is rare.

 

[Cotton]

Don't think ive ever posted a proposal but maybe Raymond + pick for Weaver + pick?

both UFAs
Raymond would have to go to fit him under the cap - his cap hit is 1.0, Weaver 1.1

Raymond would be Florida's highest scorer this season by 7 points and could replace Boyes who will probably be traded... Florida would have the first crack at re-signing him as well

Leafs get an experienced defensive RD whos good on the PK and could push Franson back to the 3rd pairing

I have no clue who would have more value which is why i put the 2 picks to balance it out but I believe Raymond would have more value because of age

And then with Weaver we contend for the Cup

I'm not being snarky, but I think we need something more substantial then Weaver at this point, we need a top pairing in the worst way, then we can tweak our back end with 2nd and 3rd paring guys. With the Leafs, the problems always start when we get mediocre players who show a little promise and get over compensated for that, which drives up the asking price on quality D UFA's we approach or who are traded here and become UFA/RFA. If we typically tweak first and then hope for something big then we should just land our big fish first and see what we can do after that, that's what Burke was actually doing before he lost his job.

Also, Raymond offers too much speed and okay secondary scoring for 1M, it would make more sense to just keep him and lose him as a FA, especially considering we are likely dealing Kulemin.

 

[Liferleafer]

My opinion isn't just about defense....my concern is that with all of the rumoured teams interested in certain players....the Leafs just aren't mentioned. I mean come on Nonis, you can't really believe that this team is good enough.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs-nonis-should-keep-calm-as-deadline-looms/

Good article. Except Lupul bit, he has started to piss me off

 

[Quares27]

And then with Weaver we contend for the Cup

I'm not being snarky, but I think we need something more substantial then Weaver at this point, we need a top pairing in the worst way, then we can tweak our back end with 2nd and 3rd paring guys. With the Leafs, the problems always start when we get mediocre players who show a little promise and get over compensated for that, which drives up the asking price on quality D UFA's we approach or who are traded here and become UFA/RFA. If we typically tweak first and then hope for something big then we should just land our big fish first and see what we can do after that, that's what Burke was actually doing before he lost his job.

Also, Raymond offers too much speed and okay secondary scoring for 1M, it would make more sense to just keep him and lose him as a FA, especially considering we are likely dealing Kulemin.

No you're definitely not being snarky by acting like a sarcastic idiot arguing something that nobody ever said

We actually don't need a top pairing guy. We need a right handed D #3-4 guy who can play on the 2nd pairing, be a steady presence and push Franson down the lineup. You seem like the type of guy who goes on the trades section constantly trading half the team for #1Cs and #1Ds. Fact is neither of those players are available so it's probably best if you stop deluding yourself into thinking we're somehow going to attain those players through a trade, and assess some realistic targets.

 

[Falon]

The leafs will not make a trade at the deadline. They do not have the capspace to do anything. Nonis will address the defense in the offseason.

 

[Ruski]

I love love us a Yandle!

I got no clue what it would cost, but feel that we need to make a big move on the defensive side! Gardiner, Reimer, 3rd rounder for Yandle + prospect?

 

[Cotton]

No you're definitely not being snarky by acting like a sarcastic idiot arguing something that nobody ever said

We actually don't need a top pairing guy. We need a right handed D #3-4 guy who can play on the 2nd pairing, be a steady presence and push Franson down the lineup. You seem like the type of guy who goes on the trades section constantly trading half the team for #1Cs and #1Ds. Fact is neither of those players are available so it's probably best if you stop deluding yourself into thinking we're somehow going to attain those players through a trade, and assess some realistic targets.

The implication is that a Weaver deal is pointless you rude-little-*******, and it was a friendly jab not some overly sarcastic insult.

We don't need to push Franson down, we simply don't need Franson at all and he can be replaced more easily then a winger with speed who has 17 goals at 1M, we have as many wins as we have from our offense and competent goaltending, not because we are defensively responsible, so your big idea is trade away our secondary scoring for a zero upgrade on D? amazing!.

I don't give a fiddlers-fart to what I strike you as, if you are overly interested you can research it for yourself, I'm not interested in trading half the team for 1C's and 1D's nor am I interested in Weaver like deals that downgrade our offense and do nothing to improve our status as a bubble-team, I'm interested in a top pairing (which IS what we need) and a competent 3 to 6.

Realistic is an Andrew MacDonald, which actually does help us. But if you assume all trade's are hyped up by Sportsnet and TSN for months before the deadline then you're ignorant about the way thing's work. And I know minor tweak trade suggestions are safe and everything because you then don't have much to justify, but we aren't one of two away from post-season success, we are a bubble-team with major defensive lapses.

So lighten up.

 

[Cotton]

The leafs will not make a trade at the deadline. They do not have the capspace to do anything. Nonis will address the defense in the offseason.

I disagree, I think we will make a hockey trade.

 

[topched]

I love love us a Yandle!

I got no clue what it would cost, but feel that we need to make a big move on the defensive side! Gardiner, Reimer, 3rd rounder for Yandle + prospect?

Yandle just isn't what we need. We need someone to play with Dion. Yandle is just what we hope Rielly and Gardiner turn into. He's not that great defensively.

We need an Orpik, Girardi, Staal, Hamuis etc type of guy. Obviously much easier said than done.

 

[Diatomic]

Just by reading a few comments you get to see how bad this defense truly is. No one knows how to significantly upgrade it, including myself. Trading Kadri for defense is a bad idea, and getting a bottom pairing tweener at the deadline is also a bad idea.

 

[ULF_55]

Do Leafs even know what they are?

Pre-contender, still in foundation rebuild, a few pieces away, or completely lost?

If you know this you'd have a better idea what direction to take.

 

[Cotton]

Do Leafs even know what they are?

Pre-contender, still in foundation rebuild, a few pieces away, or completely lost?

If you know this you'd have a better idea what direction to take.

We are Bi-polar?

 

[Falon]

I disagree, I think we will make a hockey trade.

I think Nonis would like to make a hockey trade, but I don't think anyone else wants to right now who is in the playoff hunt, which severely limits his trade options.