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Player Discussion: Noah Dobson

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PK Cronin said:
I have no problem with him because it's part of the process for sure, but on the other side the team is trying to win and has a small margin for error. He commits errors, understandably, but it really hurts the team. I hope he doesn't take as long as some other defenseman to clean some stuff up. I don't care at all about his offense, just keep the puck out of the net.
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I agree, but i'm hard pressed to see anything that's blatantly his fault. The one goal he got beat on in Toronto (besides the empty netter) even Butchie brought it up...Toews needs to make a smarter read there. Kapanen had very little angle and sure he may have time to go forehand but let Varly have that. Granted the Devils game I was still groggy from travel and had to watch that game in two parts as I was falling asleep during it. May have missed one there not sure. I think Toews is losing us as many games as Dobson may be, but I still give both a pass as they are young and learning.

I have a theory, just from my own personal life, that when you get comfortable you actually don't play as well as you do when you are nervous and acting on instinct. That's why I think sophomore slumps happen. I'm not worried about Toews or Dobson at this point, but if LL is genuine in his commitment to development then it's on him if we don't make the playoffs because he stands pat. Honestly, that's all there is to it. If a player of Pelech's ability goes down, and he knows that Dobson, Toews, Aho et al are still learning the game, he needs to make, imo, a "mandatory" move to ensure the playoffs. If he doesn't and we sneak in, good on him. He knows better. If he doesn't make a move and we miss the playoffs, they'll honestly be one man to blame imo, and I'm guessing LL knows this as well.
 
LeapOnOver said:
I agree, but i'm hard pressed to see anything that's blatantly his fault. The one goal he got beat on in Toronto (besides the empty netter) even Butchie brought it up...Toews needs to make a smarter read there. Kapanen had very little angle and sure he may have time to go forehand but let Varly have that. Granted the Devils game I was still groggy from travel and had to watch that game in two parts as I was falling asleep during it. May have missed one there not sure. I think Toews is losing us as many games as Dobson may be, but I still give both a pass as they are young and learning.
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He's had other ones, I can't remember which game it was recently where he tried to get cute in the corner. Instead of going up the wall he tried to cut back and make a pass more towards the middle of the ice which was promptly intercepted and deposited into the back of the net. That's something he could get away with in juniors, so I understand why it's happening, but it's still frustrating when it does. Toews isn't making the same kind of mistakes and I know he can improve because we've seen him be better than this.

Toews misplayed the 2 on 1 once it happened, but the fact remains that it shouldn't have happened. If you're an NHL defenseman you can't be getting walked like that. I know it happens from time to time to everyone, but it's just too frequent with Dobson at this point. He'll get better in time.

I have a theory, just from my own personal life, that when you get comfortable you actually don't play as well as you do when you are nervous and acting on instinct. That's why I think sophomore slumps happen. I'm not worried about Toews or Dobson at this point, but if LL is genuine in his commitment to development then it's on him if we don't make the playoffs because he stands pat. Honestly, that's all there is to it. If a player of Pelech's ability goes down, and he knows that Dobson, Toews, Aho et al are still learning the game, he needs to make, imo, a "mandatory" move to ensure the playoffs. If he doesn't and we sneak in, good on him. He knows better. If he doesn't make a move and we miss the playoffs, they'll honestly be one man to blame imo, and I'm guessing LL knows this as well.
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There's definitely some truth to that I think. The sophomore slump is likely due to players feeling as though they have a grasp of what they need to do so they relax a little bit. On the other side, it can happen because their roles are likely to be expanded and the opposition isn't going to be caught by surprise about your game anymore. Toews came up in the middle of last season and he has tremendous speed, so he probably caught guys off guard a bit. Now? They've seen him, they have footage on him, they know what he's about.
 
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PK Cronin said:
He's had other ones, I can't remember which game it was recently where he tried to get cute in the corner. Instead of going up the wall he tried to cut back and make a pass more towards the middle of the ice which was promptly intercepted and deposited into the back of the net.
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It was the Columbus game I think?
 
I agree there would still have been growing pains along the way, but I still say if he'd been playing more and allowed to continue to improve in a more consistent way, he'd be well ahead of where he is now. Watching his 4th or 5th game, how comfortable he was becoming especially handling the puck, he was already well ahead of where he is currently. Not saying he would have challenged Makar for or even Hughes in Vancouver, but he would certainly be playing better than he has the past month. As many were saying, when he finally got back in the lineup, he was handling the puck like it was a grenade. He showed more poise and composure in the first month of the season.

And like I said, the biggest headscratcher for me is, if you have to keep him due to his situation, what is to be gained by burning a year of his contract without allowing him the chance to progress. The way it was going, year 2 of his deal would basically be his rookie season. A waste, IMO.
 
TMI said:
I agree there would still have been growing pains along the way, but I still say if he'd been playing more and allowed to continue to improve in a more consistent way, he'd be well ahead of where he is now. Watching his 4th or 5th game, how comfortable he was becoming especially handling the puck, he was already well ahead of where he is currently. Not saying he would have challenged Makar for or even Hughes in Vancouver, but he would certainly be playing better than he has the past month. As many were saying, when he finally got back in the lineup, he was handling the puck like it was a grenade. He showed more poise and composure in the first month of the season.

And like I said, the biggest headscratcher for me is, if you have to keep him due to his situation, what is to be gained by burning a year of his contract without allowing him the chance to progress. The way it was going, year 2 of his deal would basically be his rookie season. A waste, IMO.
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I was certainly on board from the perspective he should have been allowed to play elsewhere instead of burning a year but will have to change my tune on this one.

Dobson now appears he will be playing now after Pelech’s injury out of necessity.

If he starts playing really well then the opposite argument takes center stage and Lou would have made the right choice after all because had he been in Europe or the juniors he wouldn’t be where he is right now.

I won’t argue he should have been playing on the Island nightly in the first half as he appeared not ready for a full time role, was not a top 6 defenseman on this team and the Islanders record and D was one of the best in the league.
 
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I would love to see Dobson come in and play on his right side - its tough for a kid to jump in the lineup and play his off side right off the bat. But alas, that's the situation we've been dealing with so far this season. His opportunities have come on the left side....nothing you can do about it.

But regardless, its only been half the season so far and if he continues to progress and grabs this opportunity to play regularly, the folks who were concerned about him not getting into the lineup enough will doubtless be pleased. Hopefully by the end of the season, he's comfortable and part of the regular rotation on the blue line and the worst thing that happens is that we have 7 options for 6 spots when Pelech comes back. A good problem to have.

This is a marathon, not a sprint and we are halfway through the season sitting at 55 points. We can afford to bring him along slowly.
 
Islanders4Cups said:
Another strong game from Dobson tonight. Showing maturity for a 20 year old. He is showing confidence and made very few mistakes. Looks like a winner.
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I thought he was up and down tonight. Looks great some shifts, looks like a kid others. Consistency is always the hardest thing for youngsters, his game is a roller coaster far too often.

He still has those rookie jitters in his game, it's going to be awhile until that's gone and the game slows down for him.
 
PWJunior said:
I thought he was up and down tonight. Looks great some shifts, looks like a kid others. Consistency is always the hardest thing for youngsters, his game is a roller coaster far too often.

He still has those rookie jitters in his game, it's going to be awhile until that's gone and the game slows down for him.
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The play where the Devils player (Coleman?) decided to forecheck him really hard and stripped the puck is a play where I think Dobson forgets what league he's in. In juniors a guy probably leaves him alone for fear of getting burned, here, he's the prey and all of these guys he's facing know it until he proves otherwise.
 
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Something to realize about Dobson who just turned 20 like yesterday is that in the NHL defensemen have always taken longer to develop.

When a forward makes a mistake it is not too noticeable.
When a defensemen makes a mistake it is fairly noticeable.
When a goalie makes a mistake it is very noticeable.

The more noticeable the mistakes are (costly) the longer it takes a player to be able to consistently play there. This is why we see forwards come in at such an early age, defensemen coming in later, and goalies typically coming in last.
 
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PK Cronin said:
The play where the Devils player (Coleman?) decided to forecheck him really hard and stripped the puck is a play where I think Dobson forgets what league he's in. In juniors a guy probably leaves him alone for fear of getting burned, here, he's the prey and all of these guys he's facing know it until he proves otherwise.
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Dobson made as many mistakes as Mayfield and Pulock in only his 15th NHL game as a just turned 20 year old
The kid is going to make mistakes but none of them were costly last night. I liked the way he led the rush and was making plays down low. He adds an element of speed but he lacks the physical aspect much like Toews and Leddy. He is not a replacement for Pelech if that is what you are looking for, but no one is in the entire organization.

I thought he was as good or better than Toews last night
 
Dobson is going to make mistakes but he's also going to get better. If the Islanders are going to make a deep run in the playoffs, I think they're going to need Dobson to play at a high level and contribute to the offense while being solid in his own end. Better that he gets the playing time now in the dog days of the regular season rather than getting broken in during the playoffs. I still think back and cringe that we actually threw a raw Griffin Reinart out there in the playoffs.

Dobson should have 45 or so games under his belt by the time the playoffs come and that'll serve us well. They should try and get Aho in some games too, as it's probably less than 50/50 that the remaining defensemen are all healthy the rest of the year and Boychuk/Leddy could both use a little load management.
 
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Metnut said:
Dobson is going to make mistakes but he's also going to get better. If the Islanders are going to make a deep run in the playoffs, I think they're going to need Dobson to play at a high level and contribute to the offense while being solid in his own end. Better that he gets the playing time now in the dog days of the regular season rather than getting broken in during the playoffs. I still think back and cringe that we actually threw a raw Griffin Reinart out there in the playoffs.

Dobson should have 45 or so games under his belt by the time the playoffs come and that'll serve us well. They should try and get Aho in some games too, as it's probably less than 50/50 that the remaining defensemen are all healthy the rest of the year and Boychuk/Leddy could both use a little load management.
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As Dobson continues to play regularly, I think we'll see his game expand. He certainly has had his good and bad moments so far, but he is in a good situation being mentored by Boychuk and living with the Seidenberg's. While it's not ideal that it took a Pelech injury to open up a spot for him, he should get into a better routine now that he's going to play regularly.

I have noticed that Dobson has been more physical lately, he has been a bit Bambi-ish for most of the season. That slight hesitation to engage physically seems to have dissipated and he actually has been throwing his body around a little bit. I have also noticed more plays disrupting zone entries at the blue line using his range that weren't there earlier too.

The kid has impressive offensive tools that we are seeing manifest in flashes. The premium skating has been noticeable, he had some Leddy-ish rushes up the ice the last two games. A good sign and bounce back after getting schooled in Toronto. The kid is smart and he'll adjust. Having to play a lot of LD is a blessing and a curse for now, but Trotz has been cycling the defense to get him time on RD. Pulock has been doing a lot of heavy lifting and Leddy has had to up his play too to make this happen.

I'm still convinced that Dobson will be a beast, but it's going to take time. As he gains more experience, I think he'll establish himself as a legit bottom pairing NHL d-man taking a regular shift, that's big for him in his D+2 season.
 
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PWJunior said:
As Dobson continues to play regularly, I think we'll see his game expand. He certainly has had his good and bad moments so far, but he is in a good situation being mentored by Boychuk and living with the Seidenberg's. While it's not ideal that it took a Pelech injury to open up a spot for him, he should get into a better routine now that he's going to play regularly.

I have noticed that Dobson has been more physical lately, he has been a bit Bambi-ish for most of the season. That slight hesitation to engage physically seems to have dissipated and he actually has been throwing his body around a little bit. I have also noticed more plays disrupting zone entries at the blue line using his range that weren't there earlier too.

The kid has impressive offensive tools that we are seeing manifest in flashes. The premium skating has been noticeable, he had some Leddy-ish rushes up the ice the last two games. A good sign and bounce back after getting schooled in Toronto. The kid is smart and he'll adjust. Having to play a lot of LD is a blessing and a curse for now, but Trotz has been cycling the defense to get him time on RD. Pulock has been doing a lot of heavy lifting and Leddy has had to up his play too to make this happen.

I'm still convinced that Dobson will be a beast, but it's going to take time. As he gains more experience, I think he'll establish himself as a legit bottom pairing NHL d-man taking a regular shift, that's big for him in his D+2 season.
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I'm ok with his occasional brain farts/gaffes. Its part of the process. He needs to know what can work in the big leagues and what from his Junior game has to be left back there. He could do things at will against teenagers. He needs to realize that against the best in the world, there's a time for the slick play and a time for the smart play.

Last night, while making a few gaffes, he seemed more of a confident two-way defender. I'm sure the LD role has him thinking more than ideal (as opposed to reacting), but ultimately it gives him good experience.

As Denis Potvin is fond of saying, it takes about 300 games to get fully acclimated to the NHL as a Dman. Dobson is just starting that journey. When we hit the playoffs, he'll likely have 40-50 games under his belt. He will be a lot more comfortable by that point than he is now.
 
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crasherino said:
I'm ok with his occasional brain farts/gaffes. Its part of the process. He needs to know what can work in the big leagues and what from his Junior game has to be left back there. He could do things at will against teenagers. He needs to realize that against the best in the world, there's a time for the slick play and a time for the smart play.

Last night, while making a few gaffes, he seemed more of a confident two-way defender. I'm sure the LD role has him thinking more than ideal (as opposed to reacting), but ultimately it gives him good experience.

As Denis Potvin is fond of saying, it takes about 300 games to get fully acclimated to the NHL as a Dman. Dobson is just starting that journey. When we hit the playoffs, he'll likely have 40-50 games under his belt. He will be a lot more comfortable by that point than he is now.
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I am curious what will eventually give in for the defensive core. If Dobson establishes himself as a starter for next season I have a difficult time believing anyone is going to want to sit every game. At that point I suppose Boychuk can be rested more.
 
YearlyLottery said:
I am curious what will eventually give in for the defensive core. If Dobson establishes himself as a starter for next season I have a difficult time believing anyone is going to want to sit every game. At that point I suppose Boychuk can be rested more.
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Or when the defense is back to 100% healthy we can use a D as a trade chip.
 
Islanders4Cups said:
Dobson made as many mistakes as Mayfield and Pulock in only his 15th NHL game as a just turned 20 year old
The kid is going to make mistakes but none of them were costly last night. I liked the way he led the rush and was making plays down low. He adds an element of speed but he lacks the physical aspect much like Toews and Leddy. He is not a replacement for Pelech if that is what you are looking for, but no one is in the entire organization.

I thought he was as good or better than Toews last night
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I understand he'll make mistakes, I've said so repeatedly. It's not going to stop me from pointing out when he makes egregious ones that he needs to learn from. I thought his rushes were a sign that his confidence was growing and he was feeling more comfortable. His speed isn't really as good as advertised (I was expecting Leddy-ish silky smooth skating), not yet anyway, but he's still mobile enough. The only problem I have with his growing pains it that the team is trying to win by one goal every night, one of those mistakes can be really costly (like the one he made in Columbus). This team doesn't have the luxury of his growing pains coming in a 5-1 win. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be playing, he has to learn sometime, just the unfortunate state of things.
 
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PWJunior said:
living with the Seidenberg's
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Sounds like a reality show.

Seriously though, I've always heard that Seidenberg is crazy strong and a fitness nut, so hopefully he passes along some nutrition/workout wisdom to the kid.
 
PK Cronin said:
I understand he'll make mistakes, I've said so repeatedly. It's not going to stop me from pointing out when he makes egregious ones that he needs to learn from. I thought his rushes were a sign that his confidence was growing and he was feeling more comfortable. His speed isn't really as good as advertised (I was expecting Leddy-ish silky smooth skating), not yet anyway, but he's still mobile enough. The only problem I have with his growing pains it that the team is trying to win by one goal every night, one of those mistakes can be really costly (like the one he made in Columbus). This team doesn't have the luxury of his growing pains coming in a 5-1 win. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be playing, he has to learn sometime, just the unfortunate state of things.
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He definitely doesn't have speed like Leddy - he seems like a slightly better skater than Pulock, who doesn't look at all fast but always seems to slip an opposing player. He does seem like an adept puck handler at high speeds - that will serve him well on the rush.

Agreed about the nature of his mistakes. We've brought him along as slowly as possible but considering the close games we play, its inevitable that his mistakes will be magnified and potentially be costly. The alternative is not playing him which obviously doesn't help him.
 
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