Post-Game Talk: No Shots, No Glory

[BlackDogg]

I agree and the bolded is really the key.
Florida has built their team for the playoffs.
They have a team that is better than any other team when the whistles are put away.
The unfortunate reality of that...it tends to neutralize high end talent and elevate lesser talent.
It absolutely favors players whose biggest attribute is grit and if you donrt have enough of those players your chances of winning drop dramatically.
He is not the only reason they are losing this series but this team couldnt afford to lose a player like Hyman.
He has grit and scoring ability.

Yeah I think we were all afraid of this when Hyman went down and it's come true.

 

[BlackDogg]

The hero worship of McD and Drai is just silly at this point. If you can't admit they haven't delivered the goods in this series, your judgement is clouded by fandom. The crying over linemates doesn't pass the smell test; great players elevate inferior linemates, that's how Cups are won.

Sidney Crosby isn't exactly the epitome of clutch play on a personal level IMO. But he got the job done. With rookie Conor effing Sheary on his wing in 2016. With rookie Jake Guentzel in that spot in 2017. Crosby and Malkin had arguably less to work with in both those years than McD and Drai the last two years.

A significant amount of this series has been played on the PP, which his been flat-out awful. Even if we accept that "they're tired, their linemates suck" (I don't, but let's pretend) at 5 on 5, none of that applies to the PP. McD/Drai have the other one of them, plus Bouchard, RNH, as their PP linemates and that's still not enough? I guess we need to go out and add Bobby Orr to the mix?

Like FFS people, the depth all stepped up and contributed significantly for multiple rounds of these playoffs, but as soon as Drai and Davo go cold it's gotta be their teammates fault? Bullshit. McDavid in particular has been on the ice for numerous goals against that were a result of his own poor defensive play. Even the greatest of the great were/are capable of poor play at times, it's ok to admit it and stop blaming everything else under the sun.

He's awful and I think he knows it.

 

[bellagiobob]

The team lost Ekholm for basically three series and it didn’t matter.

FLA is a massive step above the other three teams we played. I would take the the fully healthy version of Hyman vs this version of Ek any day. Our D has lost the continuity we had since Ek came back, and Hyman was playing like an absolute beast. FLA would be a big step down without Marchand.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Ok so why is all this fatigue showing up mostly in the first period? Are they getting less fatigued as the game goes on? We’ve been outscored 11-4 in the first this series and 8-0 in the last 3 games. It’s an excuse. Both teams are dealing with the same level of fatigue.

unfortunately fatigue isn't linear and predictable and affects everyone differently in different ways.

I still think the Oilers will win, but not if they play the way they've played so far.

 

[brentashton]

I hate the feeling of having so much hope after game 4, then watching this effort and feeling like what was the point.

Continue to have hope

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's not about hero worship, it's about context. And when you are blaming the best playoff performer, including the finals, in the past 20 years, it comes off as out of touch. McDavid has already done more than any player in the past 20 years to help his team win the Cup, and you are demanding more.

Yep. Its ridiculous. This team, wouldn't even be remotely watchable without McDrai, and guaranteed we wouldn't be in playoffs.

"hero worship" lol

 

[Oilslick941611]

The team lost Ekholm for basically three series and it didn’t matter.

Im not actually sure Ekholm coming back has been a good thing for the team. It disrupted the D-core in a way they haven''t been able to recover from. Even though Ekholm is the far superior defenseman to Stetcher, sometimes teams go on runs where the sum of the parts is greater than any one part.

You can also tell we really miss Hyman out there.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I just don’t understand how they give that effort in a game 5 after being gifted a tied series.

It’s like they gave up after their 5 minutes of effort on the 1st and couldn’t score.

I might just score check the next game. Either they will force game 7 or disappoint me. Probably a good time to drop $100 on the panthers and be happy one way or the other.

They're gassed. You realize there was no break. Teams played Thursday than Saturday and with the longest travel day possible on the continent. It was very likely that the same teams that showed up in game 3 and 4 would be in game 5. Oilers have been looking the exhausted team for multiple games now and Panthers rolling us with an extraordinary topnine.

The good news is the Oilers get a proper break now, two days off before the next game, and again if they survive for the Game 7 final. Game 5 and the no break surely suited the Panthers with a deeper squad. Similarly games 6 and 7, the breaks favor us. If we can get it done.

But I think it was unrealistic to expect a lot of rebound in game 5 from a team that looks exhausted.

We;ve had 3 OT's in this series, we've had to run 5D at times and McD has been redlined basically the whole playoffs. I would NEVER be playing any forward an average of 25mins a night. McD is AVERAGING something like 29mins/game in this series including the OT's

 

[Drivesaitl]

How was Sidney Crosby supposed to win a Cup with useless Conor Sheary on his line the whole playoffs?

McD and Drai are great at producing when they can go out and play the game they want, in fact there's no two players in the world better at that. When they're forced to change it up and score dirty, desperate goals because the opponent is too strong to tic-tac-toe against, they sag.

Corey Perry is the only forward on this roster that will instinctively go to dirty areas and pay the price to score as his default setting. Most others, including the big two, will always try to do it the easy way first. As MacT used to say, they try to feel their way into the game. Marchand, Bennett, Tkachuk...they're pissed off and desperate from puck drop, the Oilers simply aren't. You don't fall behind by multiple goals early in FOUR consecutive playoff games if you've shown up with the attitude that nothing less than 100% from puck drop is acceptable. That attitude is set by your leaders and top players, and it's just not present with this crew. They come out hoping to win, not demanding to win.

The Oilers are seriously lacking in grit players and instead they get doltss like Connor Brown, Done Janmark, Done henrique, Arvid etc. Its an old and tired looking team. To their credit they hunted for awhile but most of the depth scoring disappeared two series ago. Its hard against quality goaltending and a SC championship team to get it done with lightweights.

I would have Sheary on my team anytime. His work rate is more Hymanesque. We don't have that either now.

But you were blaming McD, Drai, which I dispelled. I mean you can, but its shortsighted. It logically follows that this isn't even a team without either.

 

[LiseL]

After a certain point in the series the Leafs just surrendered the idea of even trying to have a proper systematic breakout. Everything was off the rush or a stretch pass trying to beat the icing. Was very weird to watch. Maybe this Florida team somehow forces this out of their opponents

What I see from the Cats is they quickly adjust their game to take advantage of their opponent's tendancies and weaknesses. Other teams seem to only be able to play one way and either get frustrated or are at a loss on how to change it up.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Show some urgency in critical moments.

The series would be over if they hadn't done that. Its easy to say this kind of thing. The game 3,4,5 I watched Florida had more legs and its toi clear why they would.

 

[redgrant]

One positive I'd say is we've seen Florida play their very best game a few times. I've yet to see Edmonton give its very best game. Now that doesn't mean it will happen on Tuesday.

Just saying it would be interesting to see a complete 60 minute effort where they are rolling. We actually saw that 3 times last year Vs Florida.

 

[Drivesaitl]

They're incapable of playing their usual style against the Cats, but they should've known this already and had a plan to counteract. The Cats won't let them do stretch passes, so do something different. The Cats seal the boards, so don't try to breakout along the boards. It's not rocket science, it's adapting your play to match your opponent. The Cats are a well-coached team, they adjust to take advantage of their opponents tendencies/weaknesses. Edm needs to play as a 5-man unit, make short passes and then gain possession time in the O-zone. Have more net front presence and shoot high. Start forechecking more, keep your sticks down. Are they not changing their game play because they're stubborn or because they're incapable of doing so (too low IQ)?

The trouble is this roster doesn't match the Panthers. Thats the difficulty. The Oilers routinely beat teams that have reasonable coaching. They've beat Vegas, Dallas regularly. They did because the Oilers were just too much for those clubs. The generational talent we have on this team just wipes those clubs off the map.

Conversely the Oilers could have the best coach in the world and this roster and goaltending might not be enough. WE can talk different X and O's all day but overall we have a decent to even good or very good coaching staff. We have a roster with some serious holes. Like others have said its mainly the generational work of players like McD, Drai, Booch that get us this far. Its an incomplete roster. Panthers are fully built out and about as deep as a team can be in cap era. We're playing a helluva team. I don't mind admitting that.

 

[LiseL]

If Stan Bowman can convince a star player to only waive their NMC to come here every single deadline then you might be on to something.

They get a star player with an NMC that walks himself to them at the deadline every year and we don’t. That’s not Stan Bowman’s fault.

Last year, it was Tarasenko. I know because it was reported that Fla was the only place he'd go to. Had a pretty good playoff run if I remember correctly.

 

[Drivesaitl]

One positive I'd say is we've seen Florida play their very best game a few times. I've yet to see Edmonton give its very best game. Now that doesn't mean it will happen on Tuesday.

Just saying it would be interesting to see a complete 60 minute effort where they are rolling. We actually saw that 3 times last year Vs Florida.

Like I said we get the long breaks now between game 5 and 6 and then 6 and 7. So its a lighter week. The game 4-5 turnover was too short for the Old Oilers. But the next 2 games are better timed for us. Theres still hope with that. If the game was on Monday I would think we're dead. Extra day can make a difference.

 

[LiseL]

Carter Hart was supposed to be Canada's goalie going forward before this whole thing. Move fits like a glove. I could see it working out.

From everything I've read about the trial, I'd be shocked if he was found guilty. Wonder if Philly will want him back.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Nowhere did I "blame" McDavid or Drai. The 3-2 deficit is a team effort through and through. Criticism does not equal blaming.



I want refuse-to-lose desperation from him and the entire roster. He has the C on his chest. It's fair to ask why the opponent that won the Stanley Cup less than 365 days ago is willing to battle harder and more desperately than the team that felt the pain of losing one simultaneous. Not everything can be boiled down to a hockey card stat pass/fail evaluation.

If you lose a Cup because the other team brought their A game and simply beat your A game, so be it. But you can't acceptably lose a Cup because you got out worked for it. You can't walk away saying "damn, those guys just wanted it more". It's tremendously disappointing that it could go down like that.

The Oilers need to channel their 2001 Avalanche. They too were behind 3-2 heading out on the road against the defending champion Devils. Finally they exceeded New Jersey's desperation in Games 6 and 7 and wrestled the Cup away. I don't remember who scored the goals, because it doesn't matter. I do remember that they wanted it more though. I do remember Ray Bourque breaking up one of Jersey's only great scoring chances in the midst of Game 7 because he was more desperate to stop a goal than whichever Devil had the puck was to score it. McDavid doesn't need to break any records to get this done, he needs to be Joe Sakic and demand and inspire two games of greatness from the rest of the bench.

I'm envisioning Al Pacino here. heh

That said do you question the C being on his chest?

Has he not delivered fairly. He's been the best player in the world over the last decade. He's earned every dime he's ever been paid. Franchise wise and in terms of gate, merchandising, media, the Oilers and Edmonton are making big fortunes off McDavid.

yeah he's giving us a lot on and off the ice and he happens to be one of the best spokespeople for any sport in the world. hes a pretty special gift and most of us are happy to have him.

I don't question whether the Oilers want it. You shouldn't either. I question whether they have the roster to consistently beat the extremely deep Florida Panthers. This is no joke club we're playing and with our goaltending its quite the mission to overcome.

Did the Oilers give up or battle in game 4. Is it a penchant for this team to give up? No, they've been teh comeback Kings again this playoffs. Game is never over. Thats been the story. You're confusing being slower and fatigued with giving. Mind and body can be willing, but sometimes the legs just aren't there.

 

[harpoon]

Again, give these guys Skinner and Pickard to shoot on and see their point totals double....

What is even the point of making this comment one time never mind repeating it over and over. The rosters are what they are. We have Skinner and Pickard. They have Bob. There’s no ‘if’ about it. It’s a cap league.

 

[MessierThanThou]

What is even the point of making this comment one time never mind repeating it over and over. The rosters are what they are. We have Skinner and Pickard. They have Bob. There’s no ‘if’ about it. It’s a cap league.

Context for people asking why Draisaitl and McDavid don't have a silly number of points like everyone expects them to have in every single round.

What's the point of your reply? Maybe if you actually followed the discussion instead of assuming my position based on one isolated reply you'd know I was defending McDrai more than condemning our goaltending.

As I told another poster already: read more, comprehend better, and yak less.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Would that help them manufacture breakaways and close in chances like Marchand has been doing because of that? Face it, the oilers are currently getting outworked and outhustled in almost every single aspect of the game. They are losing almost every metric, and goaltending is part of it but can’t explain all of it.

Marchand all playoffs was a bit piece in Florida just basically not getting a lot. he had 4 goals coming into this series. he was playing very limited role and minutes, easy minutes on the third line, and he's basically their Petr Klima. uber talented guy with a quiet role and that has some legs left. Marchand had a very quiet playoffs until now and the Luxury of the Panthers lineup is they can half their go to guys being completely off for full series and still win.

Reinhart was not producing earlier. Now he is.

Panthers are a physically stronger team than the Oilers. Of course we're getting outworked or outhit. Those are roster issues. The Early 80's islanders would roll clubs doing just what the Panthers are doing. The Islanders would win because they were a talented team full of players with high work rates. no slouches. They had star players buried deep in lineup they were so deep. Its a numbers game just to get into the Panthers lineup.

 

[MessierThanThou]

The raw numbers don’t mean much if you’re not looking at the context of the series. It was a low scoring series.

You're ignoring the context: Crosby finished in seventh on his team in scoring. McDavid is tied for 1st.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Would that help them manufacture breakaways and close in chances like Marchand has been doing because of that? Face it, the oilers are currently getting outworked and outhustled in almost every single aspect of the game. They are losing almost every metric, and goaltending is part of it but can’t explain all of it.

Nobody is saying goaltending is the only reason. Like anywhere. Not a single thing you said hasn't already been repeated by pretty much everyone here.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Context for people asking why Draisaitl and McDavid don't have a silly number of points like everyone expects them to have in every single round.

What's the point of your reply? Maybe if you actually followed the discussion instead of assuming my position based on one isolated reply you'd know I was defending McDrai more than condemning our goaltending.

As I told another poster already: read more, comprehend better, and yak less.

Who you responding to. There may not be a point..

 

[MessierThanThou]

Good God man, please tell me you're a troll and not an actual Oilers' fan... I'm reminded of why I stopped posting in the game-threads midway through last season -- too many "fans" of the team are deluded and mildly insane.

I've lost respect for at least half of the posters on this board. This place has devolved into a complete idiocracy, brimming with ungrateful fans who never deserved a winning franchise in the first place.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Who you responding to. There may not be a point..

There isn't a point. These are glorified bots who have lost all reason and will sorely regret their drivel if McDavid actually does leave. Too many people who have shell shock from the decade of darkness and have reverted to their default mode of blaming our stars.