No PWHL expansion for 24-25

[LadyStanley]

During interview of recent finals game, commissioner confirmed no expansion for next season.

Kinda makes sense to firm up what is there.

Guessing new teams/owners might be stepping up, privately. Walter "owns" all six teams so perhaps a first step is to "sell" off those?

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[Pompeius Magnus]

The classic mistake with a new league is to jump the gun on adding new teams and to be way too aggressive early, a la USFL in the 80's. This is the smarter approach IMO, you want to build on your success and only add when your base is 100% secured.

 

[ponder719]

That does make sense, though selfishly I was hoping they'd expand to 8 teams, with Philadelphia being an obvious candidate. I don't actively follow women's hockey because I don't have a rooting interest, but that would change right quick if we got a PWHL team.

I still think Philly should be one of their first two expansion markets, though. Maybe for 25-26.

I am wondering if the plan is to register team identities next year, thus giving the first six teams a chance to establish themselves with an identity first, then start bringing in new teams after that.

 

[JMCx4]

That does make sense, though selfishly I was hoping they'd expand to 8 teams, with Philadelphia being an obvious candidate. I don't actively follow women's hockey because I don't have a rooting interest, but that would change right quick if we got a PWHL team.

I still think Philly should be one of their first two expansion markets, though. Maybe for 25-26. ...

What is it that's "obvious" about Philadelphia being a PWHL expansion candidate? Sadly, your loyalties alone don't count as an answer.

 

[GindyDraws]

New York is easily the biggest concern for the league right now. Attendance is horrible, facilities are all over the place, and the league has to decide whether to be the 70th team to call themselves "New York" but actually play in New Jersey or just give up on the market and go somewhere else as you'll never see a 6-10K arena built in the area.

 

[LadyStanley]

The six teams are east of the Mississippi. (Although technically Minnesota might be on the west bank of the headwaters.) There's a lot of western territory without rooting interest. 7 US NHL teams in that territory. Plus 3 Canadian NHL teams.

I can see "NY" being relocated. But maybe not this offseason.

 

[ponder719]

What is it that's "obvious" about Philadelphia being a PWHL expansion candidate? Sadly, your loyalties alone don't count as an answer.

You're coming at me like you want an argument, but I don't have the energy for one. I'll say that Philly teams, for all our fan base gets shit for being hardasses, are consistent performers from a financial perspective, there's plenty of corporate support and infrastructure, and there's been recent investment in the women's game at the college level in the local area as well. Beyond that, I'm out.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

You're coming at me like you want an argument, but I don't have the energy for one. I'll say that Philly teams, for all our fan base gets shit for being hardasses, are consistent performers from a financial perspective, there's plenty of corporate support and infrastructure, and there's been recent investment in the women's game at the college level in the local area as well. Beyond that, I'm out.

THEN why weren't they considered either in this league or the PHF, which immediately preceded it? where would a Philly team play, etc...... even PWHL Boston doesn't play in Boston, it's Lowell.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

I mean, considering the fact that Philly was widely considered the runner-up in WNBA expansion, it's clear there is a market *for* women's sports in the area. I guess it depends whether it can be applied to women's hockey.

THEN why weren't they considered either in this league or the PHF, which immediately preceded it?

Because this league has just got done it's first season, and the PHF only lasted what, two years before being killed off for this one? Come on Hutch, this isn't hard to figure out.

 

[Spydey629]

I mean, considering the fact that Philly was widely considered the runner-up in WNBA expansion, it's clear there is a market *for* women's sports in the area. I guess it depends whether it can be applied to women's hockey.

Because this league has just got done it's first season, and the PHF only lasted what, two years before being killed off for this one? Come on Hutch, this isn't hard to figure out.

Pittsburgh will be the city from the Commonwealth to get a team, not Philly. Pittsburgh already has a history with the pro game, hosting the PHF All-Star Game, multiple US/Canada exhibitions, and a neutral site PWHL game this season.

Western PA already has the feeder infrastructure in place as well, with three D-I schools (RMU, Penn State, and Mercyhurst) all playing within a few hours of each other.

 

[Foxy]

New York is easily the biggest concern for the league right now. Attendance is horrible, facilities are all over the place, and the league has to decide whether to be the 70th team to call themselves "New York" but actually play in New Jersey or just give up on the market and go somewhere else as you'll never see a 6-10K arena built in the area.

Have they attempted to use the Nassau Coliseum? Seems like it would be a perfect fit. It holds up to 13k for hockey, and as far as I'm aware has a pretty empty event calendar. The Nets minor league team is there and they only draw around 5k a game so the expectation wouldn't be you need to sell out every game. Also a handful of rinks within 30 mins that they can use to practice.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Have they attempted to use the Nassau Coliseum? Seems like it would be a perfect fit. It holds up to 13k for hockey, and as far as I'm aware has a pretty empty event calendar. The Nets minor league team is there and they only draw around 5k a game so the expectation wouldn't be you need to sell out every game. Also a handful of rinks within 30 mins that they can use to practice.

doubtful you'd ever see Nassau being used as a hockey facility in any capacity..... even temporarily and with UBS @ Belmont now in play despite the reconstruction of that track that may not be an option

 

[GindyDraws]

Have they attempted to use the Nassau Coliseum? Seems like it would be a perfect fit. It holds up to 13k for hockey, and as far as I'm aware has a pretty empty event calendar. The Nets minor league team is there and they only draw around 5k a game so the expectation wouldn't be you need to sell out every game. Also a handful of rinks within 30 mins that they can use to practice.

If I recall, the ice plant was permanently removed when the Islanders first left and there's talks of replacing the arena with a casino, especially as the third NLL tenant failed spectacularly.

It could work, but I feel like Long Island is finally ready to move on.

 

[Foxy]

If I recall, the ice plant was permanently removed when the Islanders first left and there's talks of replacing the arena with a casino, especially as the third NLL tenant failed spectacularly.

It could work, but I feel like Long Island is finally ready to move on.

Ahh, figured there was something keeping them from using it. Yeah, the whole renovation has been a major debacle.

 

[patnyrnyg]

New York is easily the biggest concern for the league right now. Attendance is horrible, facilities are all over the place, and the league has to decide whether to be the 70th team to call themselves "New York" but actually play in New Jersey or just give up on the market and go somewhere else as you'll never see a 6-10K arena built in the area.

NY is just a strange market for women's hockey. The ideal place would be MSG, but the arena is so busy it might not be available. Secondly, have heard the rent would exorbitant due to the rules with the various unions. If they play at Prudential, people from LI and Connecticut are not going to go. If they play at UBS people from NJ, SI, and the Bronx are not going. Play in CT, and you are not going to draw at all from NYC, LI, NJ. SO, I can understand why they tried playing in the different locales this season. But yes, they do need to figure out where they are going to play.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Have they attempted to use the Nassau Coliseum? Seems like it would be a perfect fit. It holds up to 13k for hockey, and as far as I'm aware has a pretty empty event calendar. The Nets minor league team is there and they only draw around 5k a game so the expectation wouldn't be you need to sell out every game. Also a handful of rinks within 30 mins that they can use to practice.

If they used Nassau, they would never draw from outside of Nassau, Western Suffolk, and Queens. That would be a huge chunk of the metropolitan area they are cutting out. Think they would try for UBS full time first.

 

[Voight]

NY is just a strange market for women's hockey. The ideal place would be MSG, but the arena is so busy it might not be available. Secondly, have heard the rent would exorbitant due to the rules with the various unions. If they play at Prudential, people from LI and Connecticut are not going to go. If they play at UBS people from NJ, SI, and the Bronx are not going. Play in CT, and you are not going to draw at all from NYC, LI, NJ. SO, I can understand why they tried playing in the different locales this season. But yes, they do need to figure out where they are going to play.

Between MSG being booked up like almost everyday of the year and the PWHL not being a big enough draw to push out other events, it'll never happen.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I am still befuddled and kind of frustrated why they got rid of all the team names from PHF. Minnesota Whitecaps has been around for a while.

 

[uncleben]

I am still befuddled and kind of frustrated why they got rid of all the team names from PHF. Minnesota Whitecaps has been around for a while.

The decision was made early on for no teams to have branding, an all or none decision

But during the formation of the PWHL, the Walter Group (majority owner of the PWHL) purchased the assets of the old PHF. I have not seen it clarified if that included individual team branding or if that stuck with the private ownership of the club, but if it did, I can see the Whitecaps as being one of the first to bring back their historic name.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

The decision was made early on for no teams to have branding, an all or none decision

But during the formation of the PWHL, the Walter Group (majority owner of the PWHL) purchased the assets of the old PHF. I have not seen it clarified if that included individual team branding if that stuck with the private ownership of the club, but if it did, I can see the Whitecaps as being one of the first to bring back their historic name.

Why?

Makes no sense to me.

 

[uncleben]

Why?

Makes no sense to me.

The turn around on production and marketing would have been otherwordly. And that's if they had all their brands decided and didn't want to market testing, etc. Meanwhile they're creating a CBA and union, finding venues and doing scheduling, TV deals, etc.

Made less sense to have 1 or 2 teams branded and the rest generic, so instead decided to focus on simply starting up the league, build a fanbase, get some attention, then once the wheels were on the ground, then they can focus on diversifying the league