Blue Jays Discussion: No More AA, Everyone is very Sad (and by Sad, I mean Mad)

[JS19]

AA had 5 mediocre seasons and 1 good season as GM. not trying to downplay what he did this season, but he wasn't exactly churning out contenders every year. plus he got us to the postseason by trading our youth for impact players as opposed to building through the draft and becoming contenders.

people in toronto need to chill. at best we have another season of contending before we have to rebuild again. yes AA got to the playoffs this year, but lets not pretend like he was some damned savior.

While building through the draft is critical, let's not act like baseball's prospects are guarantees when it comes to building a contender. Even a team like KC has had to rely on trades and FA signings to get to two WS appearances. They didn't build solely through the draft. Not to mention, AA still left behind a decent farm system for the Jays, so we're not ****ed.

 

[Swervin81]

Well Said.....and has Gibbons been fired yet.

He's pretty much a dead man walking at this point.

Interestingly, Terry Francona has an opt out clause that activated once Shapiro left Cleveland. He said he wouldn't use it, but who knows. Maddon used his when Friedman left Tampa last year.

 

[Eb]

Nothing says 'serious petition' like description paragraphs riddled with spelling errors.

Lol. That was painful to read. The "Bluejays" made me cringe.

 

[Discoverer]

AA had 5 mediocre seasons and 1 good season as GM. not trying to downplay what he did this season, but he wasn't exactly churning out contenders every year. plus he got us to the postseason by trading our youth for impact players as opposed to building through the draft and becoming contenders.

people in toronto need to chill. at best we have another season of contending before we have to rebuild again. yes AA got us to the playoffs this year, but lets not pretend like he was some damned savior.

His first few seasons as GM were great. He was in a rebuilding process and he did an absolutely amazing job.

 

[JS19]

He's pretty much a dead man walking at this point.

Interestingly, Terry Francona has an opt out clause that activated once Shapiro left Cleveland. He said he wouldn't use it, but who knows. Maddon used his when Friedman left Tampa last year.

Francona said he wouldn't use the opt out, but I salivate at the thought of bringing Francona in as manager of the Jays.

 

[Loosie]

Francona said he wouldn't use the opt out, but I salivate at the thought of bringing Francona in as manager of the Jays.

He also said that in the middle of the season.

 

[King Mapes]

AA had 5 mediocre seasons and 1 good season as GM. not trying to downplay what he did this season, but he wasn't exactly churning out contenders every year. plus he got us to the postseason by trading our youth for impact players as opposed to building through the draft and becoming contenders.

people in toronto need to chill. at best we have another season of contending before we have to rebuild again. yes AA got us to the playoffs this year, but lets not pretend like he was some damned savior.

You do realize he's a GM so can't be judged for awhile right?

 

[janesy12]

Francona said he wouldn't use the opt out, but I salivate at the thought of bringing Francona in as manager of the Jays.

He also said that in the middle of the season.

While also being employed by the Indians.
Its not like he was going to say "Yeah sure, great question. If Mark leaves, I'm gone! Smell ya later Cleveland!"

 

[mikebel111*]

Francona would be awesome. Would lessen a little bit of the pain about AA leaving.
Yeah I believe Gibbons is gone though I hope not, because he is a good manager (I know that's not allowed on here). However replacing him with Francona would be amazing

 

[Kurtz]

Because he's his pitching coach and the White Sox were paying him $10 million to pitch for them?

Is it typical for a relatively successful veteran pitcher to execute the exact wishes of some pitching coach, when it's acting to his detriment in a UFA year?

 

[JS19]

Francona would be awesome. Would lessen a little bit of the pain about AA leaving.
Yeah I believe Gibbons is gone though I hope not, because he is a good manager (I know that's not allowed on here). However replacing him with Francona would be amazing

I agree, I'm also a fan of Gibbons, but when you have a chance to bring in Terry Francona, you take it.

 

[LaCarriere]

AA had 5 mediocre seasons and 1 good season as GM. not trying to downplay what he did this season, but he wasn't exactly churning out contenders every year. plus he got us to the postseason by trading our youth for impact players as opposed to building through the draft and becoming contenders.

people in toronto need to chill. at best we have another season of contending before we have to rebuild again. yes AA got us to the playoffs this year, but lets not pretend like he was some damned savior.

He was promoted to GM in October 2009. The team he inhereted was nothing short of a disaster. Go back and look what he had to work with -- nobody was going to make that team competitive in 2010-2012, those years were a writeoff.

realistically 2013 was the first year the jays were in a position to compete, and that team fell apart due to injuries and regression to guys like Romero that nobody saw coming. if that didn't turn out to be one of the unluckiest and underacheiving teams and made the playoffs, AA would have taken a complete zero team to the playoffs in 4 years.

 

[theaub]

Eh its not fair to say that team was unlucky, AA acquired some flawed players and their flaws showed through

But the ability for him to quickly replenish the farm system from the end of 2012 to the TD this year to be able to make the moves he did speaks wonders for his (and his team's) player development ability. When the main concerns about a GM (especially here) seem to be building the farm and not having bad contracts, his ability to do the former and get rid of the latter is what makes me upset that he's gone.

Shapiro is one of the better traders in the game as well though, so hopefully he just lets the rest of the front office handle the drafting.

 

[Leaf_Crazy]

It's going to be very interesting to see what Shapiro decides to do in FA. If he doesnt make a splash and improve both our bullpen or starting pitching he is going to be run out of town quickly. We have 1 more year to contend.

 

[LaCarriere]

Eh its not fair to say that team was unlucky, AA acquired some flawed players and their flaws showed through

But the ability for him to quickly replenish the farm system from the end of 2012 to the TD this year to be able to make the moves he did speaks wonders for his (and his team's) player development ability. When the main concerns about a GM (especially here) seem to be building the farm and not having bad contracts, his ability to do the former and get rid of the latter is what makes me upset that he's gone.

Shapiro is one of the better traders in the game as well though, so hopefully he just lets the rest of the front office handle the drafting.

Unlucky in the fact that their entire rotation was ripped apart within a month, Romero forgot how to throw a ball, Lawrie, EE, JB, Melky all missed significant time. Yeah They had some flawed players, but they all seemed to go down at the same time, one after the other. They lead the league in time lost, that season couldn't have gone any worse.

 

[TootooTrain]

It's going to be very interesting to see what Shapiro decides to do in FA. If he doesnt make a splash and improve both our bullpen or starting pitching he is going to be run out of town quickly. We have 1 more year to contend.

I don't know where people get this 1 last year stuff. Unless Shapiro makes a deal that would define a specific direction, they have pieces in place with term that suggest they can battle for the post-season for atleast the next 2-3. The season doesn't start today. There are plenty of opportunities to improve the pitching. We shall see what happens.

 

[Kurtz]

Just to play devil's advocate for a sec (an apt title for anyone defending Rogers, ever), but the Jays farm was generally ranked around 15th heading into the past couple of years...so while he did rebuild it somewhat after the Marlins/Mets trades, it's not like he built it back up to a top 3 farm that it was prior to his initial splurge.

Furthermore, the people who actually drafted all of those prospects are still within the organization (Tinnish, Depodesta, etc...unless/until AA poaches them), so all is not lost quite yet.

 

[LaCarriere]

I don't know where people get this 1 last year stuff. Unless Shapiro makes a deal that would define a specific direction, they have pieces in place with term that suggest they can battle for the post-season for atleast the next 2-3. The season doesn't start today. There are plenty of opportunities to improve the pitching. We shall see what happens.

The offence could take a pretty big hit after this year if Bautista and EE leave / aren't offered new deals. It wouldn't be the end of the world, but losing two players on their level, on their team friendly deals would hurt.

 

[Loosie]

Just to play devil's advocate for a sec (an apt title for anyone defending Rogers, ever), but the Jays farm was generally ranked around 15th heading into the past couple of years...so while he did rebuild it somewhat after the Marlins/Mets trades, it's not like he built it back up to a top 3 farm that it was prior to his initial splurge.

Furthermore, the people who actually drafted all of those prospects are still within the organization (Tinnish, Depodesta, etc...unless/until AA poaches them), so all is not lost quite yet.

This is a point that I don't think it stressed enough, the GM in general seems to get way too much credit for drafting or the prospect pool. When the credit really should go with the scouting department.

As of right now they are still with the team so I don't see why we wouldn't still be good at drafting.

 

[Eyedea]

Look at Samardzija's pitch selection this year compared to last 3 years. Look at it. He struggled because Don Cooper was being a moron and having him throw that cutter (which isn't his strong suit) way more and his 4 seamer (which is a very strong suit) way less. Have him go back to the way he pitched for the most part pre-2015 and his numbers should bounce back.

His 4 seamer was never his strong suit, and that was the pitch he threw the most this season. His usage was problematic, and so was his mechanics, but it was moreso using his cutter and slider more than his 2 seamer, and his splitter being thrown for more strikes.

 

[TootooTrain]

The offence could take a pretty big hit after this year if Bautista and EE leave / aren't offered new deals. It wouldn't be the end of the world, but losing two players on their level, on their team friendly deals would hurt.

All true. I'll eat my shoe if both simply walk as free agents though. Shapiro won't let two hitters of their caliber go without getting value for them. Whether that's before or after signing new deals. That's the smart thing to do anyway.

 

[Eyedea]

Just to play devil's advocate for a sec (an apt title for anyone defending Rogers, ever), but the Jays farm was generally ranked around 15th heading into the past couple of years...so while he did rebuild it somewhat after the Marlins/Mets trades, it's not like he built it back up to a top 3 farm that it was prior to his initial splurge.

Furthermore, the people who actually drafted all of those prospects are still within the organization (Tinnish, Depodesta, etc...unless/until AA poaches them), so all is not lost quite yet.

2015 rankings: MLB 10th, BA 10th, BP 10th, Sickels 8th

Everybody had the Jays trajectory from 2014 (before the season started) as going up. Everybody other than Stroman was raw and at the lower levels, and then we saw several breakout performances from Norris, Pompey, Castro as well as drafting Hoffman, Pentecost, and SRF.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Just to play devil's advocate for a sec (an apt title for anyone defending Rogers, ever), but the Jays farm was generally ranked around 15th heading into the past couple of years...so while he did rebuild it somewhat after the Marlins/Mets trades, it's not like he built it back up to a top 3 farm that it was prior to his initial splurge.

Furthermore, the people who actually drafted all of those prospects are still within the organization (Tinnish, Depodesta, etc...unless/until AA poaches them), so all is not lost quite yet.

I wouldn't pay a significant amount of attention to those rankings. The actions of other GMs, and their enthusiasm to acquire Blue Jays prospects over the last calendar year, should speak volumes.

 

[LaCarriere]

All true. I'll eat my shoe if both simply walk as free agents though. Shapiro won't let two hitters of their caliber go without getting value for them. Whether that's before or after signing new deals. That's the smart thing to do anyway.

They both have 10/5 rights. It's not really up to Shapiro what happens with them -- they control their own future. The only way they are traded is if they are so far out at the deadline that they are sellers, and someone wants to pay the price for them as rentals

 

[Gabriel426]

Like I said, I am more keen on the directions Rogers is heading with the Jays than Shapiro tracks record.
Think resigning Price, Lowe and Estrada will ensure Rogers believe this Jays team can compete for a few yrs.