No charges over Adam Johnson death

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He literally said he can't be charged because the act he was doing wasn't illegal. This "infographic" does not prove his point. What the hell is the matter with you people? 🤣
He posted an infographic of what involuntary manslaughter is. It is pretty clear (and back up by the mere fact Petgrave was NOT charged) why it is NOT involuntary manslaughter. Look I get it, you're mad that this happened and mad that Johnson died. I am too. But that doesn't mean Petgrave is legally guilty of murder or manslaughter. The hill for a prosecutor to climb is pretty significant.

Here, let me help break a few things down for you. I'm not a lawyer but I do plenty of expert witness stuff so I've seen my fair share of court cases where "who is liable" is the crux of the case.

As the infographic, which is correct, the three elements required to establish involuntary manslaughter are:
1. Your act caused the death of another person (The act must directly lead to the death).
2. You acted without regard for human life, or it was inherently dangerous (The act must show a disregard for safety or be inherently dangerous).
3. You knew or should have known that the act endangered human life (There must be awareness or a reasonable expectation of the risk).

Did his act cause the death of Johnson? Yes. This part is fairly straightforward. Petgrave’s skate blade did directly caused Johnson’s death by cutting his neck immediately following the hit. Johnson had the puck when he collided with another player, causing him to fall, and Petgrave’s leg came up and hit him in the neck, and he subsequently bled out. So this does satisfy the first piece, however, causation alone isn’t enough for a manslaughter charge. As per the infographic and other definitions, the other elements must also be met, and the context of the act matter (whether or not they do to you).

Did Petgrave act "without regard for human life, or was the act inherently dangerous?" This is where the case begins to weaken for a prosecutor. For it to qualify, it must either demonstrate a reckless disregard for human life or be inherently dangerous beyond the accepted risks of the sport. Hockey is an inherently dangerous (or high-risk) sport because (in this context), players wear sharp blades on their feet and move at high speeds. Hit (deliberate) or other collisions (non-deliberate) and falls are common, and it's not inconceivable that skate blades can unintentionally make contact with other players, in fact, it's happened multiple times in the past where it's hit the neck. Past the neck, there have been multiple injuries where a skate blade has sliced a body part. So it's not THAT uncommon. Now most feel that Petgrave’s odd movement of raising his leg after the collision was a natural reaction to losing balance, not a deliberate or reckless act aimed at slicing Johnson's neck. Plain ol fact here is, you will NEVER be able to prove that intent.

Even claiming recklessness or negligence here is difficult because, in this context, it would require Petgrave to have acted with a blatant disregard for safety. A good example would be intentionally swinging his skate at Johnson’s neck or a diliberate hit from behind beyond the context of a normal hockey play (think Dale Hunter on Pierre Turgeon). Again, there’s no evidence of intent. You can even use the "reasonable person" standard. A "reasonable person" standard in hockey accepts that players may collide and that skate blades may cause injury. While rare, it's not out of the realm of possibilities. Next, Petgrave’s action wasn’t a deviation from standard play, it was just the unfortunate consequence of his speed, the contact, and the loss of balance. Now, if Petgrave had deliberately kicked Johnson or used his skate as a weapon (Happy Gilmore reference here), that would be inherently reckless and dangerous with clear intent. But the collision and subsequent skate contact were part of the flow of the game. Every time players step on the ice, there is an "assumption of risk", meaning players accept the inherent dangers of the sport, including accidental injuries as part of the normal flow of the game. Instances where this DOES NOT work, is seen in plays like McSorley on Brashar or Bertuzzi on Moore. I think this is where @Ihateblakecoleman is coming from with the "there was no negligent" act because hitting is indeed legal as is initiating the contact. Now if he ninja'd up and went in on a high kick targeting the neck, that's different.

The last part is, did Petgrave know (or should he have known) his act endangered human life? And this element requires that Petgrave either knew or should have reasonably known that his action posed a significant risk to Johnson’s life which again would be near impossible to prove in court. Unfortunately for you and fortunately for the court system, HF opinion from non-law-knowing people, does NOT count. All hockey players are aware that skate blades can cause injury (as I already went through). There’s no evidence that can be presented in court that proves Petgrave knew or should have known that his specific action would result in a fatal neck injury. It would be very reasonable to go back and have him say "well if knew THAT was going to happen, I wouldn't have done it". These types of hits/collisions happen all the time in hockey without catastrophic outcomes, and neck injuries, while possible, are rare even without mandatory neck guards at the time (the EIHL did not mandate them in 2023 after the incident). This very specific, highly unlikely, incredible infrequent outcome was not a foreseeable result of Petgrave’s movement in the heat of the game. At least not to a degree that would allow someone to be charged with invol manslaughter.

The last thing I'll say is about legal precedence and "reasonable expectation" in sports in general. In sports, the standard for what a player "should have known" can vary based on what the player is doing (thus being high contextual). Hockey players are expected to play hard, make split-second decisions, and hit opposing players with the puck. Pretty standard. The defense attorneys will successfully argue that Petgrave’s reaction to the collision was instinctive, not premeditated, and there’s no indication he could have reasonably anticipated that he would have sliced Johnson's jugular and then see him bleed out. Legal precedents in sports require a significant breach of the rules or even accepted norms to establish this element, which isn’t present here. Again, I noted McSorley, Bertuzzi, and Hunter as examples where you COULD see this. If one of those acts led to the death of the player, they could have be charged.

ETA: You can go through US and UK case laws where you can read more about liability for injury in sports. There have been cases in the past that would help you understand this better.

Hopefully that helps you a bit. This is not to say what happened isn't tragic. Just because he's not charged doesn't make the incident any better or worse. You can't look at this like Petgrave "got away with something".
 
As a general matter charging negligent homicide should be rare. There's a huge difference between legally owning a firearm, brandishing it in anger and having it go off due to carelessness or say driving drunk and passing a bunch of cars on the right because you were in a hurry versus playing in a hockey game where something goes terribly wrong in mid-air. A gun and a car are far more likely to cause serious bodily harm than your ice skates.

NHL players have acted with far more intent and barely gotten two minutes. This play wasn't even as likely to cause harm as some of the headshots we've seen this playoffs where a guy's neck could be broken.

A terrible thing but criminal charges don't seem to make much sense.

RIP Adam

I’m not so sure that deliberately kicking someone becomes a “terrible accident” when it punctures an artery.

Even if you weren’t aiming for the artery, the act was 100% intentional, and is a suspendible act in its own right.

The best angle of defense in this situation is that he is was nudged by a third player during the act of kicking, which raised his leg to a height that he didn’t intend. That much like a hard slash which rides up a stick and smacks the victim in the nose instead of the fingers, it’s all part of the chaos of the game.

I can understand that angle from a prosecutor’s point of view, that paying charges would be a waste of time and resources. But I don’t like it.
 
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He posted an infographic of what involuntary manslaughter is. It is pretty clear (and back up by the mere fact Petgrave was NOT charged) why it is NOT involuntary manslaughter. Look I get it, you're mad that this happened and mad that Johnson died. I am too. But that doesn't mean Petgrave is legally guilty of murder or manslaughter. The hill for a prosecutor to climb is pretty significant.

Here, let me help break a few things down for you. I'm not a lawyer but I do plenty of expert witness stuff so I've seen my fair share of court cases where "who is liable" is the crux of the case.

As the infographic, which is correct, the three elements required to establish involuntary manslaughter are:
1. Your act caused the death of another person (The act must directly lead to the death).
2. You acted without regard for human life, or it was inherently dangerous (The act must show a disregard for safety or be inherently dangerous).
3. You knew or should have known that the act endangered human life (There must be awareness or a reasonable expectation of the risk).

Did his act cause the death of Johnson? Yes. This part is fairly straightforward. Petgrave’s skate blade did directly caused Johnson’s death by cutting his neck immediately following the hit. Johnson had the puck when he collided with another player, causing him to fall, and Petgrave’s leg came up and hit him in the neck, and he subsequently bled out. So this does satisfy the first piece, however, causation alone isn’t enough for a manslaughter charge. As per the infographic and other definitions, the other elements must also be met, and the context of the act matter (whether or not they do to you).

Did Petgrave act "without regard for human life, or was the act inherently dangerous?" This is where the case begins to weaken for a prosecutor. For it to qualify, it must either demonstrate a reckless disregard for human life or be inherently dangerous beyond the accepted risks of the sport. Hockey is an inherently dangerous (or high-risk) sport because (in this context), players wear sharp blades on their feet and move at high speeds. Hit (deliberate) or other collisions (non-deliberate) and falls are common, and it's not inconceivable that skate blades can unintentionally make contact with other players, in fact, it's happened multiple times in the past where it's hit the neck. Past the neck, there have been multiple injuries where a skate blade has sliced a body part. So it's not THAT uncommon. Now most feel that Petgrave’s odd movement of raising his leg after the collision was a natural reaction to losing balance, not a deliberate or reckless act aimed at slicing Johnson's neck. Plain ol fact here is, you will NEVER be able to prove that intent.

Even claiming recklessness or negligence here is difficult because, in this context, it would require Petgrave to have acted with a blatant disregard for safety. A good example would be intentionally swinging his skate at Johnson’s neck or a diliberate hit from behind beyond the context of a normal hockey play (think Dale Hunter on Pierre Turgeon). Again, there’s no evidence of intent. You can even use the "reasonable person" standard. A "reasonable person" standard in hockey accepts that players may collide and that skate blades may cause injury. While rare, it's not out of the realm of possibilities. Next, Petgrave’s action wasn’t a deviation from standard play, it was just the unfortunate consequence of his speed, the contact, and the loss of balance. Now, if Petgrave had deliberately kicked Johnson or used his skate as a weapon (Happy Gilmore reference here), that would be inherently reckless and dangerous with clear intent. But the collision and subsequent skate contact were part of the flow of the game. Every time players step on the ice, there is an "assumption of risk", meaning players accept the inherent dangers of the sport, including accidental injuries as part of the normal flow of the game. Instances where this DOES NOT work, is seen in plays like McSorley on Brashar or Bertuzzi on Moore. I think this is where @Ihateblakecoleman is coming from with the "there was no negligent" act because hitting is indeed legal as is initiating the contact. Now if he ninja'd up and went in on a high kick targeting the neck, that's different.

The last part is, did Petgrave know (or should he have known) his act endangered human life? And this element requires that Petgrave either knew or should have reasonably known that his action posed a significant risk to Johnson’s life which again would be near impossible to prove in court. Unfortunately for you and fortunately for the court system, HF opinion from non-law-knowing people, does NOT count. All hockey players are aware that skate blades can cause injury (as I already went through). There’s no evidence that can be presented in court that proves Petgrave knew or should have known that his specific action would result in a fatal neck injury. It would be very reasonable to go back and have him say "well if knew THAT was going to happen, I wouldn't have done it". These types of hits/collisions happen all the time in hockey without catastrophic outcomes, and neck injuries, while possible, are rare even without mandatory neck guards at the time (the EIHL did not mandate them in 2023 after the incident). This very specific, highly unlikely, incredible infrequent outcome was not a foreseeable result of Petgrave’s movement in the heat of the game. At least not to a degree that would allow someone to be charged with invol manslaughter.

The last thing I'll say is about legal precedence and "reasonable expectation" in sports in general. In sports, the standard for what a player "should have known" can vary based on what the player is doing (thus being high contextual). Hockey players are expected to play hard, make split-second decisions, and hit opposing players with the puck. Pretty standard. The defense attorneys will successfully argue that Petgrave’s reaction to the collision was instinctive, not premeditated, and there’s no indication he could have reasonably anticipated that he would have sliced Johnson's jugular and then see him bleed out. Legal precedents in sports require a significant breach of the rules or even accepted norms to establish this element, which isn’t present here. Again, I noted McSorley, Bertuzzi, and Hunter as examples where you COULD see this. If one of those acts led to the death of the player, they could have be charged.

ETA: You can go through US and UK case laws where you can read more about liability for injury in sports. There have been cases in the past that would help you understand this better.

Hopefully that helps you a bit. This is not to say what happened isn't tragic. Just because he's not charged doesn't make the incident any better or worse. You can't look at this like Petgrave "got away with something".


Holy shit there is so much wrong with this word salad 😄

First of all... Johnson was never "falling".

Second..a hit never occured.. it was a kick. Straight up. Kicking with skates is not an accepted norm in the Sport.

It was a reckless play which he has done in the past and luckily didn't get his leg up any higher to cause death.

It can reasonably be argued his actions were reckless.

It can reasonably be argued that Petgrave knows that skates are sharp and cause significant bodily harm and kicking his leg up in the air like that has the potential to hurt someone very badly.
 
I’m not so sure that deliberately kicking someone becomes a “terrible accident” when it punctures an artery.

Even if you weren’t aiming for the artery, the act was 100% intentional, and is a suspendible act in its own right.

The best angle of defense in this situation is that he is was nudged by a third player during the act of kicking, which raised his leg to a height that he didn’t intend. That much like a hard slash which rides up a stick and smacks the victim in the nose instead of the fingers, it’s all part of the chaos of the game.

I can understand that angle from a prosecutor’s point of view, that paying charges would be a waste of time and resources. But I don’t like it.
Some people just live in their own world.

They want to ignore Petgrave's history
They want to ignore what his coach said

Most of all they ignore what anybody who has ever played Hockey knows, that swinging your skate in any way that isn't an accident is 110% a no go. It's just semantics and verbiage with them. Petgrave is a victim because in their mind (probably not even watching the video), this is akin to this happening to Bergeron or Martin St Louis or some other random nice hockey player (again ignoring everything about Petgrave).

It couldn't be that Petgrave was an idiot goon who did stuff like this all the time, nope he's a great guy who deserves a standing ovation.
 
Some people just live in their own world.

They want to ignore Petgrave's history
They want to ignore what his coach said

Most of all they ignore what anybody who has ever played Hockey knows, that swinging your skate in any way that isn't an accident is 110% a no go. It's just semantics and verbiage with them. Petgrave is a victim because in their mind (probably not even watching the video), this is akin to this happening to Bergeron or Martin St Louis or some other random nice hockey player (again ignoring everything about Petgrave).

It couldn't be that Petgrave was an idiot goon who did stuff like this all the time, nope he's a great guy who deserves a standing ovation.

What did his coach say?
 
Well I think I came to the correct conclusion without months of investigation. Again, the parents... their grief will flow over onto the lives of their remaining children, and further. It's the type of thing that drowns an entire family in depression, anger, sadness, forever.
That has no bearing on guilt whatsoever.
 
It's objectively not as seen by the fact that nobody has died from those sorts of hits.

The reason it has never happened is because Hockey players are not stupid enough to do what Petgrave did.

He has a history of doing this:



And even his former coach said this:


Literally the definition of manslaughter

Having a history of being a dirty hockey player is not evidence of him being a murderer.
 
Disgraceful. While I am sure he didn't mean to slice his throat or kill him, the video combined with footage of a similar past incident with the same player - the kick was almost certainly intentional and he should have been charged with the British equivalent of our 'negligent manslaughter'.
The video posted in this thread is (imo) exculpatory. It shows a different player with his skates high over his head and flailing about. That video actually suggests that players’ skates can be dangerously high in hockey as a consequence of contact.
The crown investigated for a long time. They likely reviewed a lot of tape and interviewed many people. And they chose to not prosecute. Certainly we can state our opinion on the matter, but clearly we don’t have access to the volume of evidence the crown had.
 
What does British/English (whichever applies) jurisprudence has to say about prior conduct (and evidence of said prior conduct) during a criminal trial?

(If by any chance someone knows about this...)
 
The video posted in this thread is (imo) exculpatory. It shows a different player with his skates high over his head and flailing about. That video actually suggests that players’ skates can be dangerously high in hockey as a consequence of contact.
The crown investigated for a long time. They likely reviewed a lot of tape and interviewed many people. And they chose to not prosecute. Certainly we can state our opinion on the matter, but clearly we don’t have access to the volume of evidence the crown had.
you're making assumptions that the crown is infallible and did due diligence --- I could cite numerous recent examples of that being NOT the case, but those examples are not hockey related and off-topic for this forum. Feel free to do some Googling though.
 
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The video posted in this thread is (imo) exculpatory. It shows a different player with his skates high over his head and flailing about. That video actually suggests that players’ skates can be dangerously high in hockey as a consequence of contact.
The crown investigated for a long time. They likely reviewed a lot of tape and interviewed many people. And they chose to not prosecute. Certainly we can state our opinion on the matter, but clearly we don’t have access to the volume of evidence the crown had.

It was not a different person. It was Petgrave.
 
A lot of people's focus is too narrow here.

Even if you think there's any actual merit to a charge like Invol Man., and that the charges would hold up and stick, and then that a jury will convict after a trial ensues......

What are you ultimately hoping for or trying to resolve? I'm assuming Petgrave has no criminal history. He probably wouldn't even serve time if convicted of this. If so, you'd think it would be mimimal like months rather than years, if anything.

Doubt the Johnson's get any closure from that. And you aren't solving a problem or detering future behavior of players hockey.

Basically the case and argument is extremely light at best and punishing Petgrave criminally doesn't really solve or do anything for anybody.

I don't think he should be allowed to play in the EIHL again and if I was the commissioner of another pro/semi-pro league I don't think I would let him play either. Who knows if he even wants to play hockey anymore. There's a lot of dehumanizing comments involving him as if he isn't traumatized and struggling himself from this incident (even if you think he did something wrong).
 
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you're making assumptions that the crown is infallible and did due diligence --- I could cite numerous recent examples of that being NOT the case, but those examples are not hockey related and off-topic for this forum. Feel free to do some Googling though.
Are you suggesting we (fans posting here) know more about the facts of this case than the crown prosecutor and their investigation team?
 
It was not a different person. It was Petgrave.
In the video posted the player in white (not Petgrave) was the one with his skates over his head and flailing dangerously. Imo the prosecution would see that as exculpatory for the reasons previously mentioned.
 
A lot of people's focus is too narrow here.

Even if you think there's any actual merit to a charge like Invol Man., and that the charges would hold up and stick, and then that a jury will convict after a trial ensues......

What are you ultimately hoping for or trying to resolve? I'm assuming Petgrave has no criminal history. He probably wouldn't even serve time if convicted of this. If so, you'd think it would be mimimal like months rather than years, if anything.

Doubt the Johnson's get any closure from that. And you aren't solving a problem or detering future behavior of players hockey.

Basically the case and argument is extremely light at best and punishing Petgrave criminally doesn't really solve or do anything for anybody.

I don't think he should be allowed to play in the EIHL again and if I was the commissioner of another pro/semi-pro league I don't think I would let him play either. Who knows if he even wants to play hockey anymore. There's a lot of dehumanizing comments involving him as if he isn't traumatized and struggling himself from this incident (even if you think he did something wrong).

So punish him but not too harshly?
Not sure i get your logic of banning him from the league if he did nothing wrong?
 
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In terms of the norms and expectations of the game of hockey, you should think the leg lift in that video was not deliberate?
Deliberate raising of the leg - maybe? Deliberate with the intent of slicing a players neck, no. Deliberate on a level needed to PROVE involuntary manslaughter, no. The burden of proof to prove involuntary manslaughter in court is very high. It's a very high bar to get over to get a conviction. This one would be a slam-dunk case for the defense. Prosecutors don't waste their time with cases they know they can't win.

"well I think this is what he did and why" posting on the internet doesn't mean shit in reality. No matter how "sure" you are.

Holy shit there is so much wrong with this word salad 😄

First of all... Johnson was never "falling".

Second..a hit never occured.. it was a kick. Straight up. Kicking with skates is not an accepted norm in the Sport.

It was a reckless play which he has done in the past and luckily didn't get his leg up any higher to cause death.

It can reasonably be argued his actions were reckless.

It can reasonably be argued that Petgrave knows that skates are sharp and cause significant bodily harm and kicking his leg up in the air like that has the potential to hurt someone very badly.
You only think it's wrong because (as you've shown here with several of your post), you don't really know shit about the law.

Fact is "well I just think that...", is not going to work in a court of law. The defense would absolutely dismantle you on the stand in this case and that's regardless of how "right" you think you are (which you aren't).

You know who else agrees with me - the UK court system that chose not the charge him. They had ample time and resources to review this. This didn't make it to a hearing or trial. THAT is how much they disagree with you. Oh yeah but no...you know better, right? You're smarter. You know the story. Well done there Judge Dredd.
 
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Deliberate raising of the leg - maybe? Deliberate with the intent of slicing a players neck, no. Deliberate on a level needed to PROVE involuntary manslaughter, no. The burden of proof to prove involuntary manslaughter in court is very high. It's a very high bar to get over to get a conviction. This one would be a slam-dunk case for the defense. Prosecutors don't waste their time with cases they know they can't win.

"well I think this is what he did and why" posting on the internet doesn't mean shit in reality. No matter how "sure" you are.


You only think it's wrong because (as you've shown here with several of your post), you don't really know shit about the law.

Fact is "well I just think that...", is not going to work in a court of law. The defense would absolutely dismantle you on the stand in this case and that's regardless of how "right" you think you are (which you aren't).

You know who else agrees with me - the UK court system that chose not the charge him. They had ample time and resources to review this. This didn't make it to a hearing or trial. THAT is how much they disagree with you. Oh yeah but no...you know better, right? You're smarter. You know the story. Well done there Judge Dredd.

Your the one that thinks he had to have intent of slicing his neck... Everything you are spouting is absolute bullshit.
 
A lot of people's focus is too narrow here.

Even if you think there's any actual merit to a charge like Invol Man., and that the charges would hold up and stick, and then that a jury will convict after a trial ensues......

What are you ultimately hoping for or trying to resolve? I'm assuming Petgrave has no criminal history. He probably wouldn't even serve time if convicted of this. If so, you'd think it would be mimimal like months rather than years, if anything.

Doubt the Johnson's get any closure from that. And you aren't solving a problem or detering future behavior of players hockey.

Basically the case and argument is extremely light at best and punishing Petgrave criminally doesn't really solve or do anything for anybody.

I don't think he should be allowed to play in the EIHL again and if I was the commissioner of another pro/semi-pro league I don't think I would let him play either. Who knows if he even wants to play hockey anymore. There's a lot of dehumanizing comments involving him as if he isn't traumatized and struggling himself from this incident (even if you think he did something wrong).

I would like to think that if there was a guy in my league who had a habit of deliberately mule-kicking people, and he ended up kicking me in the throat and killing me, that at least my government would dignify me in death by having my back instead of my murderer’s.
 
In the video posted the player in white (not Petgrave) was the one with his skates over his head and flailing dangerously. Imo the prosecution would see that as exculpatory for the reasons previously mentioned.

You must be talking about a different video. The one I am speaking about is Petgrave in a Junior game years ago.
 
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