No charges over Adam Johnson death

[blundluntman]

I think he was trying to get his leg around to make contact to impede Johnson so he couldn’t blow past him, which to me, is as much of a hockey play as a check to the head. Both are penalties but they happen.

As you alluded to, the only cases I can remember drawing criminal charges in the NHL are McSorely and Bertuzzi which are not very comparable as there was obvious intent.

There is nothing as obvious about this case which probably played a big rule in the decision to not pursue charges.

I suppose you could argue that but I don’t see how that would count as a hockey play or average penalty. It’d be different if it was a slewfoot, trip, or knee on knee, but his skate was dangerously high. Intent out of the equation (which I agree is far from obvious either way) it still isn’t a hockey play imo.

Speeding and weaving in a multi-tonne hunk of metal vs trying to trip and impede a player with his leg.

People are acting like Petgrave dropkicked someone in a scrum.


RE: The bolded, you mean a small % of people who agree with you, is what you are defining as 'reasonable'.

I can post some ugly receipts from twitter from bad people who mixed such views with racism and other crap, if you get the point.. Not saying you share those views (Racism) btw....

No. I define reasonable as the understanding of how difficult intent is to prove in such a case and how higher the chances of any legal reprimanding are with manslaughter (as opposed to murder). I’m not saying everybody asking for manslaughter is reasonable, I’m saying most reasonable people looking for any legal consequence understand manslaughter is more feasible.

I fall into neither category either way. I never personally demanded a conviction, just thought it was the most realistic option if any at all.

 

[Beerz]

The Dallas defenseman purposefully, and recklessly kick/sticks out his leg in an attempt to hook the NSH player into the boards with him. He lost body control and his skate blate nearly cut his face/neck.

If you can't concede and agree on those points, idk what you wanna talk about.

The Dallas player was hit by the Pitt player...it is simple physics ..his leg coming up had nothing to do with him intentionally kicking his leg up in the air. This is absolute hogwash.

 

[HTFN]

No, I'm showing a video of him doing his patented skate kick.

Hockey has a 150 year history, this has never happened because literally everybody knows:
1.Skates are very sharp
2.You don't use them as weapons

You're so sick of internet experts (except when you expertly decide that a guy is innocent because you want to ignore all evidence otherwise).

Never happened as in "wasn't fatal"? Because sure, okay. I don't have the numbers on that but if we want to take that argument on faith that's still fine because it won't matter shortly.

Never happened as in a guy never took a bad cut to the neck? Somebody better let Malarchuk and Zednik know. Just because everybody knows doesn't mean they're all fully in control or completely spatially aware of their surroundings. We have upped protections for goaltenders but are still fine with guys going hard to the net, even knowing they could fall and leave those dangerous feet out there. It has happened recently with commentators remarking how lucky it was nobody was cut.

You're making the link from "dirty player" to "willing to kill a man" without a lot of grace here.

 

[Rcknrollkillnmachine]

Surprised no one has mentioned how Petgrave kicked out twice with his high skate to Johnson.

 

[Opus]

Time to move on...

Rest in paradise, Adam Johnson - may your light shine bright from above

 

[kingsholygrail]

Did they at least ban him from the sport there?

 

[Filthy Dangles]

The Dallas player was hit by the Pitt player...it is simple physics ..his leg coming up had nothing to do with him intentionally kicking his leg up in the air. This is absolute hogwash.

Whatever, i really don't care about this too much....

I can't help you if you can't see it. There really shoulldn't be much dispute that he no doubt tries to hook the NSH player into the boards with him by wrapping his leg around him. Then the contact/momentum/loss of balance cause him to lose control and the leg and skate to go flying out of control.

And if you're gonna blame it on being hit/contact, Petgrave literally collides with a player just before his skate got up high on Johnson....

 

[tarheelhockey]

Watch the replay at 0:20 and tell me this is unintentional.



Now watch the Petgrave/Johnson video, which I won’t post here.

It’s the same hit. He was doing this on purpose.

 

[Volica]

You know, we complain about it, in terms of hockey losing some of the bite it had once at the NHL level, but it’s for the best.

Guys like Petgrave are a dying breed of player, these guys out here trying to hurt others; doing things you wouldn’t do in regular life to other men.

He was reckless, literally got someone killed. I hope the family finds some peace. I didn’t see a path to criminalization.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

Watch the replay at 0:20 and tell me this is unintentional.



Now watch the Petgrave/Johnson video, which I won’t post here.

It’s the same hit. He was doing this on purpose.

Both videos are similar in the fact that Petgrave had both guys lined up and when he realized they were going to dodge the hit, he extends his leg out to get a piece of them...

Its a dangerous and reckless play.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Again. Sorry to be a broken record. But you can not look at why he was not charged via laws in Canada and USA. As a Canadian in the UK it can be hard to explain work places injuries and how they are investigated unless you have been involved in an investigation.

While the police investigation has concluded I believe the inquest could now be reactivated. It was suspended as per the police request.

 

[Beerz]

Whatever, i really don't care about this too much....

I can't help you if you can't see it. There really shoulldn't be much dispute that he no doubt tries to hook the NSH player into the boards with him by wrapping his leg around him. Then the contact/momentum/loss of balance cause him to lose control and the leg and skate to go flying out of control.

And if you're gonna blame it on being hit/contact, Petgrave literally collides with a player just before his skate got up high on Johnson....

You either a flat out liar or Ray Charles.

 

[Penguin Suited Up]

I think he was trying to get his leg around to make contact to impede Johnson so he couldn’t blow past him, which to me, is as much of a hockey play as a check to the head. Both are penalties but they happen.

As you alluded to, the only cases I can remember drawing criminal charges in the NHL are McSorely and Bertuzzi which are not very comparable as there was obvious intent.

There is nothing as obvious about this case which probably played a big rule in the decision to not pursue charges.

You keep ignoring that the height of this guy’s skates was enough to cut someone in the throat. This isn’t someone trying to slewfoot or get his leg around someone. He intentionally kicks his feet up in the air.

Whether you want to make a call on intention or not, he has made an unbelievably reckless play that is at best a non conventional hockey play. . . Multiple times. You don’t need intent to identify that someone is guilty of manslaughter.

 

[Unspecified]

Nobody wins here regardless of the decision. Seems like a thorough investigation took place and found no wrong doing. It's hard to find cause in a split second action in such a freak accident. Condolences to Aaron's family and friends!

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

You keep ignoring that the height of this guy’s skates was enough to cut someone in the throat. This isn’t someone trying to slewfoot or get his leg around someone. He intentionally kicks his feet up in the air.

Whether you want to make a call on intention or not, he has made an unbelievably reckless play that is at best a non conventional hockey play. . . Multiple times. You don’t need intent to identify that someone is guilty of manslaughter.

Except you need an unlawful act for it to be manslaughter. Hitting is a part of the game.

 

[Aphid]

He deserved to be charged even though he didn't mean to kill him. I imagine the victims family is not too pleased with this. I would not be.

He's lucky this happened over there. They don't exactly have the best track record the past while in the prosecution of crimes.

 

[Midnight Judges]

It isn't... his intent is clear as day... He 100% intended to swing his leg recklessly.

Well no, that is not something that is knowable or provable in a legitimate court of law - unless there is an admission of guilt from that individual.

I think you’re kinda making some leaps in logic that a careful jurist would not make.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Both videos are similar in the fact the Petgrave had both guys lined up and when he realized they were going to dodge the hit, he extends his leg out to get a piece of them...

Its a dangerous and reckless play.

Exactly. It’s very clear to me that he had a method of leading heavily with his shoulder to try for a big upper-body hit, then also kicking his leg back as a sort of “tail” to catch the guy if he tried to dodge back against the grain.

In the Johnson video it looks like it could be an accident. In the earlier video, it’s manifestly not an accident at all. It’s a controlled and deliberate motion.

In the Johnson incident there was just enough incidental contact to raise that leg another foot or so, to throat level. Was that intentional, no. Was it a very easily foreseeable outcome of a ridiculously dangerous technique? Absolutely. The police may have felt that a jury of his peers wouldn’t see the difference, but anyone who knows hockey should be able to see the malicious recklessness in that move.

 

[psycat]

Anyone with a brain knew that this would be the outcome. And the correct one

Knew it would be the outcome but disagree with the second part.

To me it's similiar to reckless driving, even if you don't mean to hurt(or god forbid kill) someone you are still putting others at risk.

Ultimately I suppose it's just where you personally draw the line between reckless behavior and pure chance. Like if I try my new golf club out before purchasing it via taking some swings in a crowded store and, accidently, hit someone in the head am I to blame?

 

[Beerz]

Well no, that is not something that is knowable or provable in a legitimate court of law - unless there is an admission of guilt from that individual.

I think you’re kinda making some leaps in logic that a careful jurist would not make.

You don't need an admission of guilt..what the hell are you talking about... it is not the intent that is being looked at.. it is the recklessness. That is not a "hockey play". The fact that he has been involved in the same type of incident shows a pattern of recklessness.

It is no different than a parent leaving a kid in the car on a hot day. Did the parent intend to kill the kid? Of course not. Any reasonable person should know that leaving a child in a hot car is dangerous and can be charged with a type of murder. Just like any reasonable person can understand that swinging your leg up in the air with a knife on the bottom of your skate is dangerous and did it anyway.

These are just cowards who refuse to hold a reckless individual responsible for their actions.

 

[Beerz]

Except you need an unlawful act for it to be manslaughter. Hitting is a part of the game.

You do not need an unlawful act... you need a reckless act that results in death.

And that wasn't a "hit" .. it was a kick with a sharp object attached to their foot.

 

[Jumptheshark]

He deserved to be charged even though he didn't mean to kill him. I imagine the victims family is not too pleased with this. I would not be.

He's lucky this happened over there. They don't exactly have the best track record the past while in the prosecution of crimes.

I live in the UK so give me the list of crimes that was ignored like this?

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

You do not need an unlawful act... you need a reckless act that results in death.

And that wasn't a "hit" .. it was a kick with a sharp object attached to their foot.

Good luck arguing that threshold was a marked departure from the rules of the game.

 

[Beerz]

Good luck arguing that threshold was a marked departure from the rules of the game.

Yeah.. really difficult to argue that kicking people with a shoe with a knife on the bottom of it is a departure from the game.

 

[Connor MethDavid]

I understand the outcome, given the burden or proof, but I don't understand how the skate got up to where it did without some sort of intent. Not intent for the tragic outcome that followed, but some sort of consequence for what appeared to be purposeful body movements.