Confirmed with Link: Nils Lundkvist to DAL for 2023 Protected 1st

[LT]

Need a lot more of this

 

[Troy McClure]

Harley's also a better player. Just because Lundkvist is worse doesn't mean he has to eat shit while players with zero potential (Hanley) or who are far more problematic (Hakanpaa) eat more minutes.

I don't know. Saying, "hey, this guy also sucks," isn't exactly a great argument for why a guy should be playing.

It seems like his age and draft position remain the only reason anyone puts forward to say why he should play because the presumption is he will get better with more time, even though he hasn't gotten better with time to date.

 

[Elysian]

I don't know. Saying, "hey, this guy also sucks," isn't exactly a great argument for why a guy should be playing.

It seems like his age and draft position remain the only reason anyone puts forward to say why he should play because the presumption is he will get better with more time, even though he hasn't gotten better with time to date.

Lundkvist started the season off really well, as soon as PDB started punishing him for every single mistake his play obviously fell off. Players don't tend to prosper when they're micromanaged to this level.

Lundkvist is an NHLer. He's not perfect, but he's better than several d-men on this team. He's just not treated the same.

 

[Hull Fan]

I don't know. Saying, "hey, this guy also sucks," isn't exactly a great argument for why a guy should be playing.

It seems like his age and draft position remain the only reason anyone puts forward to say why he should play because the presumption is he will get better with more time, even though he hasn't gotten better with time to date.

Well the opposite of that is you know the other guys aren't going to get better thus gamble on maybe instead of staying with the crap you already have.

 

[Zapp]

I think you can simplify the Lundkvist issue by saying once he figures it out in his own end, and is confidently defending on a consistent basis, the offense will pick up.


It is interesting to see that it’s pretty split down the middle. Half the people here are done with him and want him packaged and moved, the other half wants to see him stop getting his confidence wrecked everytime DeBoer gets mad at him.

Anyone else chillin with me down the middle on this one? I’d love for Nils to take that next step, but I also only give a shit about the cup this year. If we have to trade him to bring in a true top 4 dman, so be it.

 

[David Castillo]

I don't know. Saying, "hey, this guy also sucks," isn't exactly a great argument for why a guy should be playing.

It seems like his age and draft position remain the only reason anyone puts forward to say why he should play because the presumption is he will get better with more time, even though he hasn't gotten better with time to date.

That's not the argument. It's more like "this guy kind of sucks, but at least has potential to not suck." If Dallas had LA's depth for example, where you have two guys doing solid depth work an Andreas Englund and (especially) Jordan Spence, and they needed to shoehorn a guy into the lineup that they gave up a first round pick for, I wouldn't care. But this is a team lacking what Lundkvist adds (however minimally) at the cost of what it already has in abundance (stay at home types), for which said abundance is an active deficiency.

For the record, I think Lundkvist should be traded. If he's not gonna be trusted by the coaches, cut your losses and don't fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy. But that's all the more reason to play him. If the staff thinks one young player's mistakes are threatening the altar of Win Now, then they've got bigger problems. Might as well inflate his value, however superficially.

 

[Troy McClure]

I think you can simplify the Lundkvist issue by saying once he figures it out in his own end, and is confidently defending on a consistent basis, the offense will pick up.


It is interesting to see that it’s pretty split down the middle. Half the people here are done with him and want him packaged and moved, the other half wants to see him stop getting his confidence wrecked everytime DeBoer gets mad at him.

Anyone else chillin with me down the middle on this one? I’d love for Nils to take that next step, but I also only give a shit about the cup this year. If we have to trade him to bring in a true top 4 dman, so be it.

I'm with you. I'd love for him to get better, but I also don't understand the wishful thinking about him or the anger about scratching him considering how little upside he's shown.

 

[Troy McClure]

For the record, I think Lundkvist should be traded. If he's not gonna be trusted by the coaches, cut your losses and don't fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy. But that's all the more reason to play him. If the staff thinks one young player's mistakes are threatening the altar of Win Now, then they've got bigger problems. Might as well inflate his value, however superficially.

But that's clearly not it. Harley is also a young guy who makes mistakes. Same with Johnston. But neither of them is getting scratched, so I don't agree with blanket statements about what the coaches think of playing young guys.

The staff is more than ok with young guys who make mistakes when those players learn from the mistakes and when they contribute to winning between mistakes.

 

[Elysian]

That's not the argument. It's more like "this guy kind of sucks, but at least has potential to not suck." If Dallas had LA's depth for example, where you have two guys doing solid depth work an Andreas Englund and (especially) Jordan Spence, and they needed to shoehorn a guy into the lineup that they gave up a first round pick for, I wouldn't care. But this is a team lacking what Lundkvist adds (however minimally) at the cost of what it already has in abundance (stay at home types), for which said abundance is an active deficiency.

For the record, I think Lundkvist should be traded. If he's not gonna be trusted by the coaches, cut your losses and don't fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy. But that's all the more reason to play him. If the staff thinks one young player's mistakes are threatening the altar of Win Now, then they've got bigger problems. Might as well inflate his value, however superficially.

The whole "win now" thing is stupid to begin with, win now starts in the playoffs, the regular season is when you work out the warts. They're not even trying to do that with Lundkvist, it's one mistake and bench.

 

[roryjones]

This is all focused to the wrong guy. Lundkvist may have potential and needs experience and will struggle till he figures it out and he has struggled.

The real problem is Suter. How is he still on this team? He has no potential. He is useless. Move on from suter and Lundkvist will have to play. Just a win-win move.

 

[starsfan86]

This is all focused to the wrong guy. Lundkvist may have potential and needs experience and will struggle till he figures it out and he has struggled.

The real problem is Suter. How is he still on this team? He has no potential. He is useless. Move on from suter and Lundkvist will have to play. Just a win-win move.

Amen brother

 

[JeffP]

Anyone else chillin with me down the middle on this one? I’d love for Nils to take that next step, but I also only give a shit about the cup this year. If we have to trade him to bring in a true top 4 dman, so be it.

We don't increase his stock by not playing him and were not firing our coach who doesn't want to play him.. so maybe keep looking for a trade partner

Even though I think we could have gotten more out of him

So sure, I see your 'down the middle'

 

[Elysian]

Anyone else chillin with me down the middle on this one? I’d love for Nils to take that next step, but I also only give a shit about the cup this year. If we have to trade him to bring in a true top 4 dman, so be it.

The middle might just be the only real option.

 

[Troy McClure]

We don't increase his stock by not playing him and were not firing our coach who doesn't want to play him.. so maybe keep looking for a trade partner

Even though I think we could have gotten more out of him

So sure, I see your 'down the middle'

At the same time, the Stars have only decreased his stock by playing him.

 

[BrettHullsToe]

I'm finally done carrying water for guys in their 20s getting the chance to play in the NHL, but lack confidence in their game. f*** you, you're a man, act like it and shrug off mistakes, don't compound it and make more. Coach benches you? Oh well, do better next time, don't let it get in your head and make even more mistakes next time out. Harley screws up but doesn't let it ruin his entire game, it's why he keeps getting icetime despite being younger.

I'm thinking of Lundkvist the same way I eventually was with Gurianov - play with confidence no matter what, or f*** off back to some other league where your lack of mental fortitude isn't such a big deal.

 

[eartotheground]

I'm finally done carrying water for guys in their 20s getting the chance to play in the NHL, but lack confidence in their game. f*** you, you're a man, act like it and shrug off mistakes, don't compound it and make more. Coach benches you? Oh well, do better next time, don't let it get in your head and make even more mistakes next time out. Harley screws up but doesn't let it ruin his entire game, it's why he keeps getting icetime despite being younger.

I'm thinking of Lundkvist the same way I eventually was with Gurianov - play with confidence no matter what, or f*** off back to some other league where your lack of mental fortitude isn't such a big deal.

i think you're spot on with the confidence being his issue.

watched him live (easier to lock in on one player than the broadcast) and if he had to play along the boards or had his back to the rink he was full on flustered/panicked. if he could see what was developing, he was fine, but that's a pretty important skill to develop as a defenseman.

 

[Troy McClure]

I'm finally done carrying water for guys in their 20s getting the chance to play in the NHL, but lack confidence in their game. f*** you, you're a man, act like it and shrug off mistakes, don't compound it and make more. Coach benches you? Oh well, do better next time, don't let it get in your head and make even more mistakes next time out. Harley screws up but doesn't let it ruin his entire game, it's why he keeps getting icetime despite being younger.

I'm thinking of Lundkvist the same way I eventually was with Gurianov - play with confidence no matter what, or f*** off back to some other league where your lack of mental fortitude isn't such a big deal.

The mental game is as much a part of being a pro as the physical skill set. Being able to make decisions in an instant, not getting bogged down dwelling on mistakes, keeping your effort levels up constantly, performing under pressure, etc.

Jack Campbell is a perfect example of a player with the skill to be an NHLer but who has never been able to get the mental game together.

Some guys are born with it. Some guys get there with time. But a whole lot don't ever put it together. This is the challenge of picking 17 year old boys and trying to predict what they will be like five years later. You can assume they'll be bigger and stronger, but will they be able to handle the mental pressure of the NHL game?

 

[Klockis]

I'm finally done carrying water for guys in their 20s getting the chance to play in the NHL, but lack confidence in their game. f*** you, you're a man, act like it and shrug off mistakes, don't compound it and make more. Coach benches you? Oh well, do better next time, don't let it get in your head and make even more mistakes next time out. Harley screws up but doesn't let it ruin his entire game, it's why he keeps getting icetime despite being younger.

I'm thinking of Lundkvist the same way I eventually was with Gurianov - play with confidence no matter what, or f*** off back to some other league where your lack of mental fortitude isn't such a big deal.

I think that it depends on where the team is at. If the team is a bubble team or below there is definetly an argument to play a younger guy to try to build his confidence. However, it is tricky when coaches know that they are the first ones out the door if their team underperforms. Considering this is a team that should be prioritasing contending over development I don't blame DeBoer for playing Suter and Hakanpää over him.

That being said I'm not convinced it's confidence that is the core problem for either Lundkvist or Gurianov.

 

[JeffP]

He plays afraid of PDB.
We could at least rotate him and Hanley until closer to the TDL or whatever.

"He mishandled a lot of the young players. Adam Larsson was benched in favor of guys like Peter Harrold."

Wha? This has happened elsewhere? SJ? VGK?

 

[Troy McClure]

He plays afraid of PDB.
We could at least rotate him and Hanley until closer to the TDL or whatever.

"He mishandled a lot of the young players. Adam Larsson was benched in favor of guys like Peter Harrold."

Wha? This has happened elsewhere? SJ? VGK?

I have a bit of a hard time saying this is all about Pete DeBoer having a problem with young players when there are currently two younger players on the roster who have thrived. Last season, Miro and Robertson were the same age Lundkvist is now, and those two saw their best seasons of their careers under this coach who mishandles young players.

 

[LT]

I have a bit of a hard time saying this is all about Pete DeBoer having a problem with young players when there are currently two younger players on the roster who have thrived. Last season, Miro and Robertson were the same age Lundkvist is now, and those two saw their best seasons of their careers under this coach who mishandles young players.

maybe DeBoer just hates Swedes

 

[Ratbath]

I have a bit of a hard time saying this is all about Pete DeBoer having a problem with young players when there are currently two younger players on the roster who have thrived. Last season, Miro and Robertson were the same age Lundkvist is now, and those two saw their best seasons of their careers under this coach who mishandles young players.

This conversation is a bit frustrating. One side says “Nils should probably be eating a similar number of scratches as the other player(s) of his skill level” and the rebuttal is “similarly aged players who are obviously significantly better than he is don’t eat as many scratches” as if the performance gap between Wyatt and Dellandrea is even remotely close to the gap between Nils and Suter. Bringing Miro and Robertson into the conversation seems disingenuous at best.

 

[Troy McClure]

This conversation is a bit frustrating. One side says “Nils should probably be eating a similar number of scratches as the other player(s) of his skill level” and the rebuttal is “similarly aged players who are obviously significantly better than he is don’t eat as many scratches” as if the performance gap between Wyatt and Dellandrea is even remotely close to the gap between Nils and Suter. Bringing Miro and Robertson into the conversation seems disingenuous at best.

You're talking about a different point, which is who deserves to play.

I'm taking about the contention that DeBoer mishandles young players and noting there are four young guys who have done great here with DeBoer as the coach. When evaluating whether he mishandles young players, it seems to purposely tip the scales to ignore the successes and only focus on the one guy who isn't working out.

 

[Ratbath]

You're talking about a different point, which is who deserves to play.

I'm taking about the contention that DeBoer mishandles young players and noting there are four young guys who have done great here with DeBoer as the coach. When evaluating whether he mishandles young players, it seems to purposely tip the scales to ignore the successes and only focus on the one guy who isn't working out.

I do not see any reason Suter would never eat a scratch while nils lives there other than longevity

 

[BrettHullsToe]

I do not see any reason Suter would never eat a scratch while nils lives there other than longevity

Confidence, it's why veterans who make mistakes don't eat scratches the same way rookies do. Coaches hate guys who can't shrug off an error and go right back to their normal play.