Nikita Kucherov wins his third Art Ross Trophy matching McDavid with 3 120 point seasons

[landy]

He didn’t have the scoring depth last year, we were a one line team.

He’s well ahead of everyone in terms of PPG this year and he might not even sniff a nomination. It’s ridiculous.

Youre right. I went back and checked 23-24 again and they fixed it. Phew

You guys think at Kuch's HHOF speech, hes going to complain about that Hart that he lost when MacKinnon curb stomped him in the voting? Or I forgot, sorry, it was Russia that lost it for him.

You can't give up an award that you weren't favored to win for a month. Don't act like this is some grand gesture of leadership, Mackinnon is just hurt and missing games like any other player.

He didnt giv eup the award but the Avs chose to stop playing the big boys with the last few games. Obviously if he gave a crap about teh Art Ross, he would have spoke up and said let me play those games so i get an individual award and aim sure a bonus check. But hes a leader and team guy first.

 

[Regal]

Cute only looking at 17-18 and on.
Even showing point totals at all when Kucherov missed a whole year and a large chunk of another is a nice touch too.
Then there's the fact Kucherov went to 3 cup finals and Mack only went to 1. In Mack's only Cup final he was 1.20ppg. So yes, overall it gets tougher to put up points the farther you go on.

He showed points per game too. The difference is marginal.

I’m not sure why it’s cute to show 17-18 on. Kucherov became elite one season earlier and is 2 years older. Looking at the time they’ve been both elite when it cuts off only one elite season from Kuch (that’s not one of his best anyway) is pretty standard.

 

[landy]

Since 2000 we've had 13 Art Ross winners win the Hart. The 10 Art Ross winners that didn't where:
00: Jagr (only played 63/82 games)
01: Jagr (had Mario on the team)
02: Iginla (missed the playoffs)
09: Malkin (had Crosby on the team)
11: D.Sedin (had H.Sedin on his team)
13: St. Louis (missed the playoffs)
15: Benn (missed the playoffs)
18: McDavid (missed the playoffs)
22: McDavid (Draisaitl? Matthews scoring alot of goals? This one is weird)
24: Kucherov (?)

Basically the Art Ross winner would win the Hart if he made the playoffs unless he had a high scoring team mate. It feels like the unwritten criteria changed in 22 when Matthews won.

 

[Beyonder91]

He showed points per game too. The difference is marginal.

Yes, I know he did. The only reason he would show the point totals is to make it look better for Mackinnon.

 

[SEALBound]

He's been a dominant force for years now. And yet most people see him as an elite player and nothing else. Lol.
He's a generational talent, just like Ovie predicted back in 2016, where he anticipated Kuch becoming one of the greatest russian players to ever play in the NHL.
Best playmaking winger of all time.
Once his career is over he'll end up being top 3 winger all time.
Generational.

He was pretty good in that 2013-2017 period but then he really broke out. It would be amazing to see where he'd be at if he hit this level of production earlier in his career.

 

[Video Nasty]

This will also be his third time leading the league in assists, which he has done each time winning the Art Ross.

He joins Lemieux, Mikita, Jagr, Thornton, Henrik Sedin, and Oates in that category, and only trails Gretzky (16x), Orr (5x), and McDavid (4x).

With one game to go, we’ll see if it’s another tie (like last season) or another outright win (2018-2019).

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Youre right. I went back and checked 23-24 again and they fixed it. Phew

You guys think at Kuch's HHOF speech, hes going to complain about that Hart that he lost when MacKinnon curb stomped him in the voting? Or I forgot, sorry, it was Russia that lost it for him.

View attachment 1015434


He didnt giv eup the award but the Avs chose to stop playing the big boys with the last few games. Obviously if he gave a crap about teh Art Ross, he would have spoke up and said let me play those games so i get an individual award and aim sure a bonus check. But hes a leader and team guy first.

You’re talking to a Canadian who loves MacKinnon.

I still don’t think Kucherov gets the respect he deserves, but it’s all good. Happy with the cups, the scoring trophies, and the memories.

 

[Hanji]

If he was Canadian he'd be vying for a 3rd Hart. Meanwhile he has 1 and gets made fun of for sounding like Borat at the award ceremony.

The dude is so disrespected.

 

[Beyonder91]

He showed points per game too. The difference is marginal.

I’m not sure why it’s cute to show 17-18 on. Kucherov became elite one season earlier and is 2 years older. Looking at the time they’ve been both elite when it cuts off only one elite season from Kuch (that’s not one of his best anyway) is pretty standard.

Sure let's cut off Mack's first 2 years and look from 2015-16 to present

Kucherov:
GP: 668
Points: 911
PPG: 1.36

Mackinnon
GP: 724
Points: 914
PPG: 1.26

 

[NVious]

If he was Canadian he'd be vying for a 3rd Hart. Meanwhile he has 1 and gets made fun of for sounding like Borat at the award ceremony.

The dude is so disrespected.

Not really, he is a dirty crybaby who needed to cheat to win a cup while playing on an insanely stacked team. If he has a bad reputation, it's on him. Great player though.

 

[landy]

You’re talking to a Canadian who loves MacKinnon.

I still don’t think Kucherov gets the respect he deserves, but it’s all good. Happy with the cups, the scoring trophies, and the memories.

Hard to take complaining about depth scoring seriously when the Lightning were 1 of 14 teams with 7+ 40 point scorers (Yotes, Knights, Leafs, Pens, Wild, Kings, Oilers, Red Wings, Stars, Avs, Canes, Sabres, Bruins) and 1 of 2 with 5+ 70 point scorers (Rangers) . Quite literally the definition of spreading the wealth and depth, but it was all Kucherov.

Also the bad goaltending...Vasilevskiy

Ill give you D because Sergachev was hurt, but still Hedman is a unanimous top 5 D basically since he came in the league. Imagine Avs fans complaining about only having Makar and traffic cones back there.

 

[ViD]

You’re talking to a Canadian who loves MacKinnon.

I still don’t think Kucherov gets the respect he deserves, but it’s all good. Happy with the cups, the scoring trophies, and the memories.

You gotta admit his personality is dog shit. He barely does any interviews and when he does, it feels like it’s the worst thing for him to do in his life, barring post Stanley Cup win interview, of course

 

[notbias]

It's crazy that he's never been first in EVP.

He is lethal everywhere, just insane how good he is on the PP.

I am always worried about him on the ice, but his vision and decision making really shines on the PP.

 

[JaegerDice]

There are Zero arguments to put McDavid over Kucherov anymore, He had a slow start but for the past 7 years his stats are on par with McDavid, while his Team success is lightyears ahead.

Yes, surely if the Oilers proposed a Kucherov for McDavid trade, the Lightning would say ‘no, we have the superior player’.

Come on, man.

 

[landy]

Going to be Lightning fans crying for the next decade about all the Hart trophies Kuch deserves.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Why isn't obvious now?

Since 17/18:

MacKinnon - 809 points, plus 177
Kucherov - 760 points, plus 96

Kucherov - 1.47 PPG
MacKinnon - 1.42 PPG

Kucherov - 125 playoff points
MacKinnon - 104 playoff points

MacKinnon - 1.28 playoff PPG
Kucherov - 1.23 playoff PPG

Since 2000 we've had 13 Art Ross winners win the Hart. The 10 Art Ross winners that didn't where:
00: Jagr (only played 63/82 games)
01: Jagr (had Mario on the team)
02: Iginla (missed the playoffs)
09: Malkin (had Crosby on the team)
11: D.Sedin (had H.Sedin on his team)
13: St. Louis (missed the playoffs)
15: Benn (missed the playoffs)
18: McDavid (missed the playoffs)
22: McDavid (Draisaitl? Matthews scoring alot of goals? This one is weird)
24: Kucherov (?)

Basically the Art Ross winner would win the Hart if he made the playoffs unless he had a high scoring team mate. It feels like the unwritten criteria changed in 22 when Matthews won.

I think scoring 60 goals for the first time in over a decade had something to do with it.

He showed points per game too. The difference is marginal.

I’m not sure why it’s cute to show 17-18 on. Kucherov became elite one season earlier and is 2 years older. Looking at the time they’ve been both elite when it cuts off only one elite season from Kuch (that’s not one of his best anyway) is pretty standard.

IT is pretty damn close. I always look at ppg.


I really dislike people pointing to Russian bias.
Ovechkin won multiple Hart's
Malkin won a Hart
Kucherov in his first Art Ross campaign won a Hart.

Now because McKinnon who scored goals at a higher clip and plays center and did not have as big of a supporting cast as Kucherov won last year it's some big conspiracy.

I do think Kucherov has a bigger chance at winning it this year though. I think we have 3 players all deserving to win it.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Hard to take complaining about depth scoring seriously when the Lightning were 1 of 14 teams with 7+ 40 point scorers (Yotes, Knights, Leafs, Pens, Wild, Kings, Oilers, Red Wings, Stars, Avs, Canes, Sabres, Bruins) and 1 of 2 with 5+ 70 point scorers (Rangers) . Quite literally the definition of spreading the wealth and depth, but it was all Kucherov.

Also the bad goaltending...Vasilevskiy

Ill give you D because Sergachev was hurt, but still Hedman is a unanimous top 5 D basically since he came in the league. Imagine Avs fans complaining about only having Makar and traffic cones back there.

When you have 100 assists, someone has to bury it. Kucherov factored on 50% of our 288 goals.

Vasilevskiy had a sparkling .900 SV% last year. And yeah, we played Hedman and a weak supporting cast on D.

Do you have anything else to diminish his season last year? Maybe his effort at the all-star game?

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Not really, he is a dirty crybaby who needed to cheat to win a cup while playing on an insanely stacked team. If he has a bad reputation, it's on him. Great player though.

User name definitely checks out.

 

[Zwui21]

Youre right. I went back and checked 23-24 again and they fixed it. Phew

You guys think at Kuch's HHOF speech, hes going to complain about that Hart that he lost when MacKinnon curb stomped him in the voting? Or I forgot, sorry, it was Russia that lost it for him.

View attachment 1015434


He didnt giv eup the award but the Avs chose to stop playing the big boys with the last few games. Obviously if he gave a crap about teh Art Ross, he would have spoke up and said let me play those games so i get an individual award and aim sure a bonus check. But hes a leader and team guy first.

Thanks for showing that 54 points difference between him and the second best scorer on the Bolts last season (most in the Salary Cap era btw, no biggie). That's definitely a number that doesn't show how dependent to Kuch were the Lightning last season.

Also, I read you wrote Kuch benefits from the Bolts being very talented at F.
I'll borrow a comment from a fellow Bolts poster that I absolutely loved.

Can you guess which season Kucherov didn't play:

Tampa Bay Lightning ppg players:

2018-19: 3
2019-20: 2
2020-21: 0
2021-22: 3
2022-23: 3
2023-24: 3
2024-25: 4 (Hagel is a freak of nature)

Kuch makes the ones around him great.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Also the bad goaltending...Vasilevskiy

Tampa had the third worst Goals Against Above Expected last year at 5v5. Vasilevskiy coming off surgery was terrible. He's bounced back this year but you didn't watch any Tampa games if you think Tampa got decent goaltending last year.

 

[nbwingsfan]

if he was Canadian he'd have 2 Smythes and be getting his 2nd Hart this year

You mean one of the Smythes where a Swede won or a (*checks notes*) Russian won….?

What exactly does him not being Canadian have to do with anything

 

[PM88RU]

Kuch is neither media boy nor has a likeable personality.

In fact, he behaves like a non-respectful person almost every time he gets pissed or loses. Last year ASG “performance” just completes his image.

Why does he have to be mad that media doesn’t like him? Hart just doesn’t fit his profile and behavior.

Excellent playmaker and one of the best wings ever. But I wish he just had a better character.

 

[Goatlender]

It’s difficult to compare Kucherov to players like prime Malkin like what the OP did. I recall crunching the numbers and scoring was up like 10-15% in recent seasons. Not sure about this year yet, but there’s not much doubt that Kucherov and McDavid are playing their prime in a higher scoring era than Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin did. Not saying that means X player is better, just that you can’t confidently draw any conclusions based on this factor of relative scoring across eras.

For example:

2023-2024 - 8,086 total goals scored
2022-2023 - 8,248 total goals scored
2021-2022 - 8,150 total goals scored

Compare those numbers to Malkin’s arguably best season of 2008-2009, where 7,006 total goals were scored. That’s about 15% lower scoring than 2022-2023. So if you add 15% of point totals to Malkin’s best year, you get 130 points instead of 113.

 

[Ezpz]

Cute only looking at 17-18 and on.
Even showing point totals at all when Kucherov missed a whole year and a large chunk of another is a nice touch too.
Then there's the fact Kucherov went to 3 cup finals and Mack only went to 1. In Mack's only Cup final he was 1.20ppg. So yes, overall it gets tougher to put up points the farther you go on.

Is it cute though? Why would you compare Mackinnon's age seasons where Kucherov at the same age wasn't even in the league? Not to mention Tampa played two weak Cinderella run teams for their two cups. Mack is two years younger and hit his prime faster, he might be producing at these rates after Kuch has fallen off.

Kuch has also never really not played for a good team, it was considered an epic fail when Tampa missed by one point in 2017. Mack had to start his career playing behind Matt Duchene insisting to be the #1C while Colorado missed the playoffs every year. Their numbers are near identical when both playing on contenders.

 

[landy]

When you have 100 assists, someone has to bury it. Kucherov factored on 50% of our 288 goals.

Vasilevskiy had a sparkling .900 SV% last year. And yeah, we played Hedman and a weak supporting cast on D.

Do you have anything else to diminish his season last year? Maybe his effort at the all-star game?

Maybe he should stop being Russian or play center or do interviews or stop cherry picking empty net points or backcheck. Obvious reasons why he didnt win the Hart. It might help remove the asterisk from his Cup rings too while theyre at it. Worth trying if it gets rid of the complaining. Thats obviously what you Lifhtning fans want to hear right since nothing makes sense given the fact he was curb stomped in the voting? But POINTS POINTS POINTS meh meh meh.

Thanks for showing that 54 points difference between him and the second best scorer on the Bolts last season (most in the Salary Cap era btw, no biggie). That's definitely a number that doesn't show how dependent to Kuch were the Lightning last season.

Also, I read you wrote Kuch benefits from the Bolts being very talented at F.
I'll borrow a comment from a fellow Bolts poster that I absolutely loved.

Can you guess which season Kucherov didn't play:

Tampa Bay Lightning ppg players:

2018-19: 3
2019-20: 2
2020-21: 0
2021-22: 3
2022-23: 3
2023-24: 3
2024-25: 4 (Hagel is a freak of nature)

Kuch makes the ones around him great.

No one he is saying hes a bad player by any means, just not the MVP of the 23-24 season nor this one.

Tampa had the third worst Goals Against Above Expected last year at 5v5. Vasilevskiy coming off surgery was terrible. He's bounced back this year but you didn't watch any Tampa games if you think Tampa got decent goaltending last year.

Youre talking to a fan of a team who Had georgiev for years and a good portion of this year. Zero sympathy for your HHOF Vezina winning goaltender having an off year. Maybe put some defense in front of him or start a Hedman is overated thread or ding ding ding maybe your cough cough MVP forward backchecks once in a while vs cherry picking.