Prospect Info: Nick Suzuki Part 6

[417]

I get what you're saying and I agree but I don't think the Collberg example is a good one. 417 is right. He just wasn't good enough and if he were, he would have earned that spot eventually. I doubt his club just gave up on him.

Back on topic. I think the habs handled Suzuki perfectly thus far. The extra year in the O proved to be a great confidence booster and I really did see quite a bit of progression in many aspects of his game, notably skating and strength. It was reported that MB went to a few games in the playoffs and the habs have always been in contact. They urged him to work on specific facets of his game and encouraged the coaches to play him at center.

Suzuki is going to be an interesting player to watch at camp.

Technically, he *should* be ready to compete for a spot at training camp and at the very least, make himself a difficult cut.

But will the coaching staff place him in situations so he can succeed at camp like they have with other young players in recent years?

If they do, i'm convinced he'll make the team.

 

[DangerDave]

Suzuki is going to be an interesting player to watch at camp.

Technically, he *should* be ready to compete for a spot at training camp and at the very least, make himself a difficult cut.

But will the coaching staff place him in situations so he can succeed at camp like they have with other young players in recent years?

If they do, i'm convinced he'll make the team.

Suzuki makes the team at some point I have no doubt but whether it's out of camp I'm not entirely sure. I think he probably plays at least a few games to start the year.

It would be wise to place him with guys who can see the game well like he does so we can get a good idea of where he's at rather than just having him play with plugs on the 4th line. I think having him play with a combo of KK or Domi and Byron or Lehky would be ideal. An equally creative player along with a more north south guy that still has skill.

 

[Miller Time]

I get what you're saying and I agree but I don't think the Collberg example is a good one. 417 is right. He just wasn't good enough and if he were, he would have earned that spot eventually. I doubt his club just gave up on him.

Back on topic. I think the habs handled Suzuki perfectly thus far. The extra year in the O proved to be a great confidence booster and I really did see quite a bit of progression in many aspects of his game, notably skating and strength. It was reported that MB went to a few games in the playoffs and the habs have always been in contact. They urged him to work on specific facets of his game and encouraged the coaches to play him at center.

Yes, while I don't know much about colberg's career progression, what we do know is that he didn't manage to progress into an NHL regular... He ultimately was not good enough.

Why or how his development faltered is, in my experience with elite sports, likely to be far more complex than "he wasnt good enough to begin with" or "would never had made it anyways".

Each athletes journey is unique, and often (not unlike in most careers), one opportunity, or missed opportunity, plays a catalyst role in shaping the career progression.

That's the nuance that seemed absent from the initial comment I responded to.

Interestingly, in your comments about Suzuki, you point to the perception you have that the extra year in the O was a great confidence booster (which it certainly seems to have been).

Imagine the Habs deciding to keep him last year & instead of the huge success (OHL season, WJC, memorial cup), he has a year spend in/out of the lineup or injured or... or... or...
Confidence shattered instead of bolstered, and with an NHL salary to indulge in anything he wants to soothe his ego...

I think anyone who has spent time with late-teens, especially "A" types, can see how easily one decision very quickly cascade into either positive or negative career momentum. Once that ball starts rolling & picking up speed, it can soon take on the air of having been unavoidable...

 

[417]

Suzuki makes the team at some point I have no doubt but whether it's out of camp I'm not entirely sure. I think he probably plays at least a few games to start the year.

It would be wise to place him with guys who can see the game well like he does so we can get a good idea of where he's at rather than just having him play with plugs on the 4th line. I think having him play with a combo of KK or Domi and Byron or Lehky would be ideal. An equally creative player along with a more north south guy that still has skill.

I can always tell at camp if a coach is really willing to give a young player a shot.

Charles Hudon is a good example...

He came to many training camps and never got a real opportunity and every year he got cut.

However, 2yrs ago he came to camp and had to make the team or he'd have to go through waivers...so the Habs actually had him playing with NHL players at camp and magically, he looked good at camp.

We'll know if the Habs actually think Suzuki can make the team just by looking at who he's practicing with and/or playing with in preseason games.

 

[26Mats]

I can always tell at camp if a coach is really willing to give a young player a shot.

Charles Hudon is a good example...

He came to many training camps and never got a real opportunity and every year he got cut.

However, 2yrs ago he came to camp and had to make the team or he'd have to go through waivers...so the Habs actually had him playing with NHL players at camp and magically, he looked good at camp.

We'll know if the Habs actually think Suzuki can make the team just by looking at who he's practicing with and/or playing with in preseason games.

Kotkaniemi played in more preseason games than anyone else last september.

I expect Suzuki, Poehling, and Brook to do the same this year, as Julien has mentioned all 3. Only way that doesn't happen is if they start to show they don't belong at this level yet.

 

[417]

Yes, while I don't know much about colberg's career progression, what we do know is that he didn't manage to progress into an NHL regular... He ultimately was not good enough.

Why or how his development faltered is, in my experience with elite sports, likely to be far more complex than "he wasnt good enough to begin with" or "would never had made it anyways".

Each athletes journey is unique, and often (not unlike in most careers), one opportunity, or missed opportunity, plays a catalyst role in shaping the career progression.

That's the nuance that seemed absent from the initial comment I responded to.

Interestingly, in your comments about Suzuki, you point to the perception you have that the extra year in the O was a great confidence booster (which it certainly seems to have been).

Imagine the Habs deciding to keep him last year & instead of the huge success (OHL season, WJC, memorial cup), he has a year spend in/out of the lineup or injured or... or... or...
Confidence shattered instead of bolstered, and with an NHL salary to indulge in anything he wants to soothe his ego...

I think anyone who has spent time with late-teens, especially "A" types, can see how easily one decision very quickly cascade into either positive or negative career momentum. Once that ball starts rolling & picking up speed, it can soon take on the air of having been unavoidable...

This is a good post - i'd be interested to know your opinion on the following.

Do you think it's at all possible, let's take Nick Suzuki since it's a propo, that if he would have stayed in the NHL all year, been in and out of the lineup (let's put aside injuries for a second) that he could have progressed just as well, if not more then the route they ultimately went with?

 

[Miller Time]

This is a good post - i'd be interested to know your opinion on the following.

Do you think it's at all possible, let's take Nick Suzuki since it's a propo, that if he would have stayed in the NHL all year, been in and out of the lineup (let's put aside injuries for a second) that he could have progressed just as well, if not more then the route they ultimately went with?

I think anything is possible...

But I also think guys like Gally or PK, who seemed to progress ahead of expectations regardless of obstacles, are rare.

The same psychological drive that separates young athletes from the pack can turn very ugly when they start hitting walls they aren't accustomed to... How solid their mindset & mental tools are (which, at that age, usually means how effective their family/mentor situation has been as they progressed... Certainly the case for both Gally & PK) is probably the biggest determinant of how they respond... And even then, the reality of coming-of-age itself is an unpredictable factor that can heavily impact the response.

Considering, in hindsight, just how well Suzuki's game progressed and how much success he enjoyed (& contributed to), I think it difficult to envision a scenario with him staying in the NHL last year that would've been better for his progression... He clearly wasn't ready for a full time top-6 role, and with our coach, our playoff focus, and the depth of middle-6 forwards, it's likely he'd have spent a lot of time in the press box or playing 10-12min/night on the 4th line.
Even with a great mindset, hard to see that putting him further ahead today than the path he took
(though, one might argue that a year with that kind of adversity would fuel a driven athlete with even more fire, and contributed to an even greater resolve to force himself into a top 6 role... Less likely imo but certainly possible.)

 

[417]

I think anything is possible...

But I also think guys like Gally or PK, who seemed to progress ahead of expectations regardless of obstacles, are rare.

The same psychological drive that separates young athletes from the pack can turn very ugly when they start hitting walls they aren't accustomed to... How solid their mindset & mental tools are (which, at that age, usually means how effective their family/mentor situation has been as they progressed... Certainly the case for both Gally & PK) is probably the biggest determinant of how they respond... And even then, the reality of coming-of-age itself is an unpredictable factor that can heavily impact the response.

Considering, in hindsight, just how well Suzuki's game progressed and how much success he enjoyed (& contributed to), I think it difficult to envision a scenario with him staying in the NHL last year that would've been better for his progression... He clearly wasn't ready for a full time top-6 role, and with our coach, our playoff focus, and the depth of middle-6 forwards, it's likely he'd have spent a lot of time in the press box or playing 10-12min/night on the 4th line.
Even with a great mindset, hard to see that putting him further ahead today than the path he took
(though, one might argue that a year with that kind of adversity would fuel a driven athlete with even more fire, and contributed to an even greater resolve to force himself into a top 6 role... Less likely imo but certainly possible.)

Good post - I think ultimately, they did the right thing with Suzuki....I don't think he was physically ready for the NHL and more importantly, I don't think the Habs and their coaching staff had room to play another developing player.

I think it'll be different this year though.

 

[CauZuki]

I think he surprises and we may see this as our top 9 (towards the end of the preseason) :

Drouin - Domi - Suzuki
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher
Byron/Armia - Kotkaniemi - Lekhonen

Not too sure about the 4th line but it will figure itself out.

 

[Miller Time]

Good post - I think ultimately, they did the right thing with Suzuki....I don't think he was physically ready for the NHL and more importantly, I don't think the Habs and their coaching staff had room to play another developing player.

I think it'll be different this year though.

I'm hopeful he and/or Poehling make it impossible for CJ not to keep him in our opening day top 9...

Far more "fun" to deal with another borderline playoff year if we get to watch skilled prospects blossom into NHL regulars!

If they both force the issue, will be interesting to see how CJ fills his top-9... Do they both play W or does he shift Domi to JKO's wing and go with 2x 20year olds down the middle? (the latter seems less likely)

 

[417]

I'm hopeful he and/or Poehling make it impossible for CJ not to keep him in our opening day top 9...

Far more "fun" to deal with another borderline playoff year if we get to watch skilled prospects blossom into NHL regulars!

If they both force the issue, will be interesting to see how CJ fills his top-9... Do they both play W or does he shift Domi to JKO's wing and go with 2x 20year olds down the middle? (the latter seems less likely)

We'll know early enough

If Suzuki or Poehling are lining up with Alex Belzile and Riley Barber at camp

We'll know the coaching staff aren't ready for them to start the year with the Habs.

 

[Miller Time]

We'll know early enough

If Suzuki or Poehling are lining up with Alex Belzile and Riley Barber at camp

We'll know the coaching staff aren't ready for them to start the year with the Habs.

Ugggh... With Weal or Barber getting lengthy time next to Domi & JKO... I really hope that isn't the case!

 

[Tyson]

Suzuki is going to be an interesting player to watch at camp.

Technically, he *should* be ready to compete for a spot at training camp and at the very least, make himself a difficult cut.

But will the coaching staff place him in situations so he can succeed at camp like they have with other young players in recent years?

If they do, i'm convinced he'll make the team.

Will they make room for him? Poehling might be more ready...I doubt Bergevin will find room for these guys.

 

[417]

Will they make room for him? Poehling might be more ready...I doubt Bergevin will find room for these guys.

I think there's room now...there's a golden opportunity for a player like Suzuki to grab a spot.

 

[Tyson]

I think there's room now...there's a golden opportunity for a player like Suzuki to grab a spot.

I hope so...the current crop of vets is pretty boring with the exception of Kotkaniemi, Gallagher and Domi

 

[S Bah]

My feeling about Poehling, Suzuki & Caufield is that their passion, desire to be the best along with talent, will see them rise to the occasion when given the opportunity. They will all play for the Habs soon enough, their coaches decision will determine whose ready or needs seasoning with Bouchard/Laval Rockets. Caufield may not get the opportunity to show his prowess in pre-season exhibition, due to his NCAA commitments. Which IMHO as a fan will be disappointing to say the very least, those remarks are better kept to myself and not posted here. Go Habs Go!!!...

 

[Kotkaniemi15]

 

[Canadienna]

Just to clarify, is he saying Joel and Claude have already decided to put him on the RW for camp?

Seems strange to not even give the kid a look at his natural position...

 

[Sthabs]

No just that they ll make him alternate

But to me thats basically saying if you want a spot this year it ll be at Rw
Even though he was told for a year to get better at C..

Just to clarify, is he saying Joel and Claude have already decided to put him on the RW for camp?

Seems strange to not even give the kid a look at his natural position...

 

[26Mats]

Just to clarify, is he saying Joel and Claude have already decided to put him on the RW for camp?

Seems strange to not even give the kid a look at his natural position...

I heard him say they decided to alternate him between center and RW during camp.

 

[DangerDave]

It seems they see him as a direct replacement for Shaw this year. Assuming he's ready, that's a really great way to bring him up imo.

 

[Runner77]

I think he surprises and we may see this as our top 9 (towards the end of the preseason) :

Drouin - Domi - Suzuki
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher
Byron/Armia - Kotkaniemi - Lekhonen

Not too sure about the 4th line but it will figure itself out.

Interesting. How many of you see Suzuki making the team straight out of training camp?

 

[Runner77]

No just that they ll make him alternate

But to me thats basically saying if you want a spot this year it ll be at Rw
Even though he was told for a year to get better at C..

"Alternate" is just code for "you're not going to be playing your natural position."

Wish they wouldn't do that with a young player who would be best served playing his natural position, IMHO.

I guess it's between having a shot at making the team if he performs at RW or not making the team at all.

 

[Bee Holder]

If Julien asked Bouchard to make him play both positions, it’s because Julien intends to play him both positions at training camp with the intention of potentially replacing Shaw with Suzuki

 

[montreal]

There is no 9 game limit for Suzuki, that's only for junior aged players. He'll need to show at camp he can handle himself, that he's gotten stronger and hopefully filled out some. Last preseason he wasn't very noticeable so this year he'll have to stand out but there's no harm in spending time in Laval under Bouchard, in fact I hope he does unless he's playing so well they can't send him down. Stop rushing these kids imo.