Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Part 11

[Colezuki]

I’d prefer to spend my money on things that have a higher probability of happening. I think you lost $100. The good news is that it is only $100.

I’m lucky I’ve got a great job with good pay so it’s just a small bet, and I don’t do sports betting generally so it’s nothing big but gives me a little more to cheer for next year

 

[Rapala]

You know what not getting enough praise?? I think Nick has over a PPG since the all star break. 17 goals in 27 games. pacing at 50 goals. the kid is really underrated.


I suspect he was simply referencing that we haven’t had true game breaking talent since kovalevv

I didn't accept the on pace argument with Caufield and I'm not going to accept it with Suzuki.
Other than to say it's a very good stretch.
I think what we can say is we have a very good case that he's a PPG guy when he has a Dach or a Slafkovsky on his wing.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Just imagine. Cole Cauiflower’s upside is way higher than Suzuki, right LG?

Yeah, I still think CC has more upside. That hasn’t changed.

But Nick has definitely improved more than I thought he would. And the main reason is he’s shooting more. His shot has always been lethal but he hasn’t used it enough- and still doesn’t.

 

[Mrb1p]

Yeah, I still think CC has more upside. That hasn’t changed.

But Nick has definitely improved more than I thought he would. And the main reason is he’s shooting more. His shot has always been lethal but he hasn’t used it enough- and still doesn’t.

More upside for what? Suzuki is like 14 months older and hes stratospheres better.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

More upside for what? Suzuki is like 14 months older and hes stratospheres better.

Goalscoring.

 

[Mrb1p]

Goalscoring.

Funny, whens the last time Cole scored 30?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Funny, whens the last time Cole scored 30?

You’ve convinced me.

 

[Redux91]

He's almost better than Dylan Cozens. Not quite Alex Galchenyuk if MT didn't ruin him by playing with Plekanec and Gallagher good, but still a decent player.

I read this, and my rage started bubbling lol I was like wow.. I had TGW figured all wrong..

Then I 'got it' lol

 

[Mrb1p]

You’ve convinced me.

I mean, Caufield has things to prove. Suzuki proved them and then some.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I mean, Caufield has things to prove. Suzuki proved them and then some.

Coming into this year, I’d have said the opposite. We have a guy who at 21, 22 scored 48 goals in 82 coming into this season. That’s insanely good. And Suzuki had been a solid two way guy but not offensively great. Borderline first liner.

In the second half of this year, Suzuki’s been great. Some puck luck (Over 30 percent shooting is ridiculous) but even when he doesn’t score he’s been really good. And he also plays well whether his linemates did well or not. Coming into the year he’d have been in the bottom tier but now I’d say he’s an average number one.

As for CC, he’s played better in every way. And that’s great. But I’d take last year’s results over this year even if his play has ismproved.

The question was about potential though and on that front, I’m solidly in the Cc camp for now. On a normal season it’d be around 50 goals with the shots he’s generating. To me that’s just too good to ignore. However, I can’t explain the shooting percentage. Maybe it’s the shoulder, I don’t know. If it is the shoulder though and it bothers him into next year or goin forward? That obviously changes everything. For now though? I’ll take CC.

 

[Jamaican Patty]

Caufield would have to be a consistent 50 goal scorer to be better than Suzuki. Right now it’s not close, Suzuki is miles better than Caufield at everything.

 

[HabsCode]

Bonafide first line C. Future Selke nominee. This guy will bring the cup back in town eventually.

Caufield would have to be a consistent 50 goal scorer to be better than Suzuki. Right now it’s not close, Suzuki is miles better than Caufield at everything.

He would need to be a 90+ points player to overpower the defensive game of Suzuki.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Caufield would have to be a consistent 50 goal scorer to be better than Suzuki. Right now it’s not close, Suzuki is miles better than Caufield at everything.

Yeah it's silly. I love Cole's goal scoring potential, and believe he can and will be a perennial 40 goal scorer in this league. But Suzuki is hands down the better player.

 

[ryan callahan]

S/O the delusional fans who thought and still think Caufield is better.

lmao what? Caufield has had better on ice results this year than Suzuki. For all the latter's two-way reputation, alot of goals seem to be going in our net when he is on the ice.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Yeah it's silly. I love Cole's goal scoring potential, and believe he can and will be a perennial 40 goal scorer in this league. But Suzuki is hands down the better player.

I think Cole will be too, the problem I have is not that LG said Cole has more offensive upside. It’s possible he does. I took issue with “way more upside”, talking like Nick is a scrub. He’s downplayed his game for way too long to hold onto to this silly notion. For Cole to have “way more upside” he would need to
Become a 100 point player. I don’t see that type of upside.

Nick is beating him at the one thing he is supposed to be better at and Nick is also better at everything else. Colefield could become the better producer, but to argue that his upside is “way greater” speaks to your bias and not the facts. There’s virtually no chance of this ever being true.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Caufield would have to be a consistent 50 goal scorer to be better than Suzuki. Right now it’s not close, Suzuki is miles better than Caufield at everything.

I think Caufield has the potential to be that kind of player. He’s already put up 48 in 82 at a really young age. In a normal year we’d be looking at 40-50 this season.

There’s every reason to believe he’s an elite goal scoring talent. We’ll see if they come out with news that he suffered from his shoulder this year - if so, it explains a lot. If not, it’s more worrisome because I don’t really think anyone has another explanation for it. Even with bad luck it should’ve been a 30+ season and he won’t even get that.

 

[marvelousmotion]

Yeah, I still think CC has more upside. That hasn't changed.

If you are referring to upside just at scoring goals, sure Caufield has more upside and we know you value that a lot. Where many of us disagrees with you is that there is way more to the game than just scoring goals.

But Nick has definitely improved more than I thought he would. And the main reason is he’s shooting more. His shot has always been lethal but he hasn’t used it enough- and still doesn’t.

Correct, that is why you are only starting to see a glimpse of how good Suzuki can be now. Using our coach's expressions, Suzuki has been raising his floor, but we have not even seen his ceiling yet.. He has another gear that we'll hopefully get to see more of once we become a playoffs team again.

There's a reason why he was chosen and became the youngest captain in the franchise's history. He's the one player on the team we can have no doubt will show up and impact the game in many areas when it matters the most.

As Martin St.Louis puts it, "What truly defines elite"? "A player who can scores goals and put up a lot of points during the regular season? Does that alone really tell you who's elite?" "Or rather someone who excels at playing the right way to win in all the different areas/situations impacting the game and can be relied on even when it's most difficult and when it matters the most?"

 

[JianYang]

Kovalev's greatest weakness was never being to identify or execute the simple efficient play.

To me, that's how his lack of hockey IQ showed up the most.

If he could make solid "hockey plays" twice as often, he would have easily been a ppg + player throughout his career.

Also, when Kovalev cared / was engaged, he wasn't half bad defensively too.

I think kovalev just envisioned the game differently than most guys. Kind of like Lafleur, you just had to let him do his thing and express himself. He didn't work well in a box either.

The seasons where he was consistently engaged, nobody was complaining about him being too cute. It's because it didn't matter. He had the ability to dominate games. In 07/08 in his mid 30s, he was the key to the Habs #1 pp unit in the whole league, and he finished 11th in league scoring playing on a line with plekanec and Kostitsyn.... so It's not like he was able to be a passenger to get those points.

As for his defense, again, you didn't hear about it as much especially when he was dialed in. He was like jagr defensively. You never really hear about it because their best defense was that they would have the puck and nobody could take them off of it. In kovalev's case, he could dance with the puck, but it overshadowed the fact that he was also strong on the puck, and you couldn't push him off either.

The mystery with kovalev was obviously the consistency. That big season in 07/08 was coming off a disastrous season in 06/07. He seemed to be perplexed at what happened as well, but he was driven to be better. And boy did he deliver as the Habs went from no playoffs to first place in the conference largely due to a healthy and dialed in kovalev.

 

[Rapala]

S/O the delusional fans who thought and still think Caufield is better.

He's clearly the better player he put up 5 or 6 more goals during a small window of time last season.
Do not introduce any facts that may have impacted Suzuki they have been deemed to be irrelevant.

I mean after all we are talking about the guy who scored 48 goals in 82 games over portions of two seasons.
Do not bring up the 30 game drought beforehand that was on Ducharme.
Do not bring up his current 25 game scoring slump he had surgery 13 months ago and his shooting percentage is in the shitter.
So is the aberration really the 55 game bookend or the 82 games high point?

I like the level playing field used to determine the truth of the matter.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I think kovalev just envisioned the game differently than most guys. Kind of like Lafleur, you just had to let him do his thing and express himself. He didn't work well in a box either.

The seasons where he was consistently engaged, nobody was complaining about him being too cute. It's because it didn't matter. He had the ability to dominate games. In 07/08 in his mid 30s, he was the key to the Habs #1 pp unit in the whole league, and he finished 11th in league scoring playing on a line with plekanec and Kostitsyn.... so It's not like he was able to be a passenger to get those points.

As for his defense, again, you didn't hear about it as much especially when he was dialed in. He was like jagr defensively. You never really hear about it because their best defense was that they would have the puck and nobody could take them off of it. In kovalev's case, he could dance with the puck, but it overshadowed the fact that he was also strong on the puck, and you couldn't push him off either.

The mystery with kovalev was obviously the consistency. That big season in 07/08 was coming off a disastrous season in 06/07. He seemed to be perplexed at what happened as well, but he was driven to be better. And boy did he deliver as the Habs went from no playoffs to first place in the conference largely due to a healthy and dialed in kovalev.

There were no seasons where Kovalev was consistently engaged as he would never have produced under 100 points. Kovalev's best was when he wouldn't take entire games off and would show up when a big goal was needed. The guy just consistently showing up for half a game was his idea of consistency.

I loved and hated him often multiple times in the same game lol. The benefit of having him on your team is you had a legitimate world class superstar for the big moments in tight games that you were only paying half of what other teams were paying for superstars who were much more consistent. He would look like the bad version of Armia for half of the game, seemingly disinterested and not involved then he would become Jagr when the game was on the line.

 

[SlafySZN]

He's clearly the better player he put up 5 or 6 more goals during a small window of time last season.
Do not introduce any facts that may have impacted Suzuki they have been deemed to be irrelevant.

I mean after all we are talking about the guy who scored 48 goals in 82 games over portions of two seasons.
Do not bring up the 30 game drought beforehand that was on Ducharme.
Do not bring up his current 25 game scoring slump he had surgery 13 months ago and his shooting percentage is in the shitter.
So is the aberration really the 55 game bookend or the 82 games high point?

I like the level playing field used to determine the truth of the matter.

You must be right, caufield is finished and shooting percentages are not something that exist, plus shoulder surgery is totally something a player comes back a couple months later exactly like they were before like it’s some magic.

 

[Rapala]

You must be right, caufield is finished and shooting percentages are not something that exist, plus shoulder surgery is totally something a player comes back a couple months later exactly like they were before like it’s some magic.

Funny how no one can’t even say Suzuki needed some consistency but can try and be all sneaky on Caufield in Suzuki’s thread.

Nobody said Caufield is finished and what I'm saying should be crystal clear.

If you take into account events surrounding one player's performance you have to do likewise with the other.
There is an ENTIRE body of work that has to be looked at and digested.

Nothing sneaky about it Suzuki has been the model of consistency.
The ups and downs throughout 82 games for someone in his position with his responsibilities are completely NORMAL.

 

[SlafySZN]

If you are referring to upside just at scoring goals, sure Caufield has more upside and we know you value that a lot. Where many of us disagrees with you is that there is way more to the game than just scoring goals.[/I]

But then why are the same people saying they don’t care about him getting more assists, pass the puck more or be better in his own zone and or the forecheck, that only goals count for him?

 

[SlafySZN]

Nobody said Caufield is finished and what I'm saying should be crystal clear.

If you take into account events surrounding one player's performance you have to do likewise with the other.
There is an ENTIRE body of work that has to be looked at and digested.

Nothing sneaky about it Suzuki has been the model of consistency.
The ups and downs throughout 82 games for someone in his position with his responsibilities are completely NORMAL.

Never said it wasn’t normal. The conversation people had last year was consistency to be a 1C, not consistency at large.

 

[JianYang]

There were no seasons where Kovalev was consistently engaged as he would never have produced under 100 points. Kovalev's best was when he wouldn't take entire games off and would show up when a big goal was needed. The guy just consistently showing up for half a game was his idea of consistency.

I loved and hated him often multiple times in the same game lol. The benefit of having him on your team is you had a legitimate world class superstar for the big moments in tight games that you were only paying half of what other teams were paying for superstars who were much more consistent. He would look like the bad version of Armia for half of the game, seemingly disinterested and not involved then he would become Jagr when the game was on the line.

The point totals have to be taken relatively. For example, Kovalev's 84 point season maybe doesnt look super impressive these days, but it was good enough for 11th best in league back then, and I imagine out of the 10 guys infront of him, most had a better supporting cast from an offensive standpoint.

That year, the Habs were must watch TV, and the driver was Kovalev as he was consistently dialed in, including the playoffs.